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Zionism (1 Viewer)

Makhno

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I understand that some Jews (Neturei Karta?) are opposed to Zionism because they feel it's contrary to traditional Jewish law . . . that the state of Israel can only be refounded with the coming of the Jewish Messiah.


So, is Zionism true to Jewish law, or is it just heretical?
 
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I understand that some Jews (Neturei Karta?) are opposed to Zionism because they feel it's contrary to traditional Jewish law . . . that the state of Israel can only be refounded with the coming of the Jewish Messiah.


So, is Zionism true to Jewish law, or is it just heretical?
Rabbis Call to Excommunicate Neturei Karta Members in Iran
15:34 Dec 14, '06 / 23 Kislev 5767
by Hana Levi Julian and Hillel Fendel

Israel’s Ashkenazi Chief Rabbi Yona Metzger and the Save the Nation and Land rabbinic organization have called for members of the anti-Zionist Neturei Karta sect to be excommunicated.

The unusal calls follow the visit to Iran by a group of senior officials of the small sect to take part in a conference aiming to present evidence that the Holocaust never took place. Photographs of the hareidi-looking Jews happily embracing Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad have been widely circulated in many countries.

Chief Rabbi Metzger called on all rabbis and communities in Israel and around the world to honor the memory of the Holocaust victims by adhering to the cherem call against the Neturei Karta members.

Rabbis of the Save the Nation and Land also made a similar call to "shun those who visited Iran, and they may not take part in communal events." The organization plans to place ads in the religious press, with the pictures and addresses of the men to be excommunicated.

The organization issued this statement:
"While the entire world is shocked at the provocative threats to destroy the Jewish presence in the Land of Israel, Jews dressed as hareidim come to identify and show solidarity with the leader of Iran, may his name be erased. Aside from the terrible desecration of G-d's Name before the whole world, this is also aid and cooperation for the plans of enemies of Israel to carry out another Holocaust, may G-d save us, upon millions of Jews. These despicable people must be excommunicated, and every Jew is forbidden to have contact with them and certainly not to include them in prayers and the like."

Rabbi Metzger said in his statement to Jewish leaders around the globe, “They [those who embraced Ahmadinajad] betrayed the Jewish people and their heritage and particularly disgraced and desecrated the memory of the Holocaust. With their shameful behavior, they tried to stain the Jewish people, who shy away from this low conduct.”

Former Ashkenazi Chief Rabbi Yisrael Meir Lau, a child Holocaust survivor who is currently the Chief Rabbi of Tel Aviv, also condemned the Neturei Karta group. "It is something completely insane," he said flatly. “Is it conceivable that any Jew, for whatever reason, would support a Holocaust denier in a generation when people with numbers tattooed on their arms are still among us? It is an insanity that has no justification and no explanation.”

The hareidi religious Eida Hareidit, an anti-Zionist Jerusalem-based council of Hassidic courts and other hareidi religious groups - including the Neturei Karta - was equally harsh in its response to the group’s actions.

In a sharply-worded editorial published Thursday, the Ha’Eida newspaper said, “That tiny group of wierdos is liable to incite hatred against hareidim.”

Editor Shmuel Popenheim wrote in his piece, “Those people’s distorted anti-Zionist zealotry, which is sanctified in their eyes above and beyond the opinion of our Torah sages, brought them to that conference.” He stopped short of endorsing the call for a cherem on the group, and estimated there were no more than ten people in all of Israel who supported the group’s actions and perhaps some 25 others worldwide.

In 2002, an American umbrella hareidi-religious group comprised of Satmar, Bobov, Belz, Vizhnitz, Munkacz, Kiryas Joel, Monroe, and other anti-Zionist communities, issued a statement sharply condemning those who openly sympathized with the PLO.

"It is with shame, sadness and outrage," the statement read, "that we publicly condemn the irresponsible and dangerous actions of a small group of individuals [known generally as Neturei Karta] who have taken upon themselves to endanger the interests of the Jewish Nation, and especially our brethren in Zion, by their reprehensible actions in joining the enemies... Their depiction in the local and international media in religious garb and prayer shawls marching arm-in-arm with Palestinian Jew-haters has besmirched the reputations of hundreds of thousands of decent Orthodox, hareidi and Hassidic Jews worldwide. Unfortunately this despicable minuscule group, who were ejected decades ago from our synagogues and communities for similar activities, do not accept or listen to the rulings of the leaders of our communities... They should under no circumstances, Heaven forbid, be associated with any recognized hareidi or Hassidic community..."

Israel Hirsch, one of the Neturei Karta participants of the conference, said his group “shares a common platform with Ahmadinejad when it comes to the so-called myth the Zionist movement created around the Holocaust.” A resident of Jerusalem’s Meah She'arim neighborhood, he said he "wanted to make it clear in Teheran that Zionism uses the Holocaust as an excuse for the existence of the Zionist state in the Land of Israel.”

Hirsch went on to say that the Iranian claim is logical. “They aren’t saying that there wasn’t a Holocaust,” he insisted. “But who perpetrated the Holocaust? The Nazis, the Germans. So they should at least pay compensation to the Jewish nation and establish a Jewish state within Germany and not within the land of Israel, which belongs to the Palestinians.”

This same group kissed and hugged Ahmadinejad when he appeared in New York to attend the opening of the United Nations General Assembly in September. They also exhorted Jews to pray for a Hizbullah victory during the second war with Lebanon after two IDF reservists were captured by the terror organization in a cross-border raid this summer.

They attended the funeral of former Palestine Liberation Organization chairman and chief terrorist Yasser Arafat, and have been funded by Palestinian Authority terrorist organizations.

Documents discosed by the Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center and the Center for Special Studies (CSS) reveal that Arafat paid more than $50,000 to Hirsch, considered the “foreign minister” of the anti-Zionist Neturei Karta sect.

CSS stated that the documents uncovered during Operation Defense Shield carried out in Jenin by the IDF in April 2002 showed that Arafat paid $25,000 and $30,000 in January and February of that year for “expenses for activities.” The investigators noted that Neturei Karta frequently supported Arafat and served as a propaganda tool for him.

Bolton: Charge Ahmadinejad With Inciting Genocide
Meanwhile, the outgoing U.S. Ambassador to the U.N. John Bolton is backing a call for the president of Iran to be charged with inciting genocide because of his speeches advocating the destruction of the State of Israel.

Bolton is set to appear in New York Thursday among a panel of diplomats and lawyers calling for Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to be prosecuted. The panel will be convened by the Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations.

The call for legal action came as Ahmadinejad repeated his onslaught against Israel at the gathering in Teheran, where he promised participants that the State of Israeli would soon be wiped out.
Arutz Sheva - Israel National News

Makhno, The presence of the Jews in Israel isn't because of Zionism but because of pure Judaism. The land of Israel is the land that God commanded the children of Israel (Jews) to settle down in it and to live their Jewish life in it. Many commandments in the Torah are relating to the living of the Jews in Israel and in fact - It's a commandment for Jews to live in this land. The Jews were expelled from this land 2000 years ago because they didn't followed the Torah commandments but it doesn't says that the land of Israel doesn't belong to them and it doesn't says that they can't live in this land as long as they follow the Torah commandments.

There were Jews who didn't go to the exile and stayed in Israel for 2000 years. The Jewish religion doesn't prohibit a Jewish state, the opposite is true. The Rabbis in Israel and abroad are in favour of the state of Israel. The fact that there is a small group within Orthodox Judaism who are against the state of Israel doesn't say anything regarding the attitude of Judaism about the state of Israel. That small group of Jews are mistaken because there is no prohibition in the Tanach against establishing a Jewish state. They are self-hating Jews with a goal of returning the Jews to slavery in Egypt. They are like Korah and his associates who didn't want to enter Israel because they were afraid that they would lose their control and influenced the Israelis to go back to Egypt, because they were Judenrats there.

Their interpretation of the bible is wrong, the messiah will bring the rest of the Jews to Israel who aren't already living there, and he will be the one who will build the temple. The current state of Israel is half way to becoming a full Jewish kingdom and is prepering itself for his coming. The messiah won't come as long as there are Jews who don't yearn to come to Israel. All NK want is publicity for themselves. They don't want to live in the state of Israel for their own reasons and they use a false propaganda for that.

Here's a list of Rabbis who will tell you that Jews must live in Israel:

Yisrael Meir Lau - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Abraham Isaac Kook - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Shlomo Goren - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yitzhak HaLevi Herzog - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Avraham Shapira - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Isser Yehuda Unterman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Mordechai Eliyahu - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yona Metzger - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Jacob speaks the truth in this. Neturei Karta is a very small anti-Zionist organization of Orthodox fundamentalists who interpret Torah/Tanach scripture incorrectly. There is nothing in Judaic scripture that forbids Aliyah (a return) to Israel.
 
Now here's a very interesting article from Prof. Alan Dershowitz who speaks about these ones, who visited and kissed Ahmadinejad at his convention. Worth reading:

By this time, everyone knows that Jews for Jesus are not really Jews. They are Christians using the cover of their Jewish origin to fool people into coming to their proselytizing services. But many people still think that the seven bearded enemies of Israel - members of an extreme cult called Neturei Karta - who accepted an invitation from Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to come to Iran's Holocaust denial festival, are also real Jews.

Still others believe that supporters of Hizbullah and Holocaust minimizers like Norman Finkelstein - who uses his Jewish birth to cover for his anti-Semitism - are real Jews. Nothing could be further from the truth, and I now propose a new vocabulary for describing these imposters. From now on, the Neturei Karta should be known as Jews for Ahmadinejad, and Norman Finkelstein and his ilk should be known now as Jews for Hizbullah.

The Neturei Karta describe themselves as part of the "Orthodox Jews United Against Zionism." In reality, they are a tiny sect that is unwilling to recognize Israel's right to exist as a secular state. According to the Neturei Karta, Jews may not reoccupy Jerusalem until the Messiah arrives and God explicitly allows the establishment of a Jewish nation grounded in halacha, or Jewish religious law.

The Neturei Karta are so incensed by a secular Israel that their principal mission is to align themselves with people and organizations such as Yasser Arafat, Hizbullah, and Ahmadinejad in order to do whatever they can to help eliminate Israel. They number no more than a few thousand people.

Noam Chomsky probably deserves a category all his own. In light of his having written an introduction to a book by Holocaust denier Robert Faurisson - who also spoke at the Iranian hate-fest - Chomsky should now be known as a Jew for Holocaust Deniers. Chomsky has claimed that he was only defending Faurisson's freedom of speech, but that defense rings hollow.

In the first place, Chomsky is not remotely a civil libertarian. Civil libertarians defend everyone's freedom of speech and conscience, whether they agree with the content of that speech or not. Chomsky, on the other hand, defends only those with whom he agrees.

Second, Chomsky did, in fact, defend the substance of Faurisson's Holocaust denial. He called Faurisson as "a sort of relatively apolitical liberal," praised his "extensive historical research," and characterized his assertions about the Holocaust as historical "findings." He also said that he did not see any "hint of anti-Semitic implications" in Faurisson's claim that the so-called Holocaust was a fraud perpetrated by the Jewish people.

Finkelstein's wholehearted hatred of Jews and support for Hizbullah is well documented and easily accessible. He is a denouncer of all Holocaust victims -calling survivors "frauds" and "hucksters" - while appropriating Nazi language himself when he characterizes American Jews as "parasites." He wears his vileness on his sleeve. For a quick overview of his positions, please see a chapter of my book The Case for Peace.

Just like consumers of food and tobacco products must be warned by labels, so too, consumers of propaganda should be warned by appropriate labeling. And just as a person can renounce his citizenship by deed or word, so too can a person renounce his ethnicity in the same manner. I hope my labeling of anti-Semites of Jewish heritage will put to rest any misconceptions that these fringe hate-mongers are representative of or speak for anyone but themselves.
Jews for Ahmadinejad | Jerusalem Post
 
Now this is a very happy news:

Ahmadinejad kisser's wife files for divorce

Neturei Karta member Moshe Aryeh Friedman returns from Tehran Holocaust denial conference to his home in Vienna, discovers his wife has left him

Moshe Aryeh Friedman, a senior Neturei Karta member, who passionately kissed Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, will now be forced to look for a woman who will agree to kiss him, as his wife has decided to leave him following his participation in the Holocaust denial conference which took place in Tehran about a month ago.

The participation of six Neturei Karta leaders in the Holocaust denial conference in Tehran continues to stirr up emotions in the ultra-Orthodox community.

Friedman, who lives in Vienna, is the harshest person among the Neturei Karta representatives who arrived in Iran , and was even photographed kissing the Iranian president. He also stayed in Iran for another two weeks after his friends left, visiting universities across the country in order to speak against the State of Israel .

The 'Ultra-Orthodox Voice' service reported that when Friedman finally returned to Vienna he found out that his wife, following her parents' advice, had fled to the Satmar community in Williamsburg, New York City. There she approached rabbis and asked them to help her divorce her husband due to his misdeeds.

Friedman is not the only Neturei Karta member who is in trouble following the Holocaust denial conference. The group's British representative has been put under tight security for fear he would be hurt after the Jewish community in the United Kingdom decided to banish him.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3352392,00.html
 

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