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Zim's Non-Lethal Options

Gladiator

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Zim should have been carrying Pepper Spray.

Zim should have been carrying a stun-gun.

Zim should have had more effective training, such as Aikido, to better protect himself, if he was going to carry a handgun with hollowpoint bullets. In many forms of Aikido, you are taught to stay on your feet, and protect yourself against fists. Zim was a negligent student of MMA, letting himself get straddled on the gound. So negligent that Zim is unbelievable!!!

Policemen most all carry pepper spray for situations that can be handled without killing the opponent.

Pepper Spray companies should lobby for people carrying guns, to also have pepper spray.

Zim was negligent in many aspects of the situation leading to the death of Trayvon Martin

Zim had many ways in which he could have defused the situation with Trayvon Martin. Zim has not really appologized by acknoledging he could have done a number of things differently, to avoid killing Trayvon Martin.

Shooting someone is not a non-lethal options.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/life/human-biology/best-place-to-get-shot1.htm


//
 
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Goshin

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Zim was not obligated to carry or have available any of those options.


Sometimes all the training in the world won't save you from a sucker punch.



Armchair quarterbacking is a great sport, ain't it? :)
 

Fisher

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Last time I discussed it with anyone in LE, the pepper spray that you can buy OTC is still nowhere as potent as the stuff the po po carry.
 

Goshin

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Last time I discussed it with anyone in LE, the pepper spray that you can buy OTC is still nowhere as potent as the stuff the po po carry.


Depends on state law. I can get the same stuff the police carry here... but the thing is, pepperspray is not knockout gas... it is better than nothing but it does not always stop an attacker either.
 

MaggieD

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Zim should have been carrying Pepper Spray.

Zim should have been carrying a stun-gun.

Zim should have had more effective training, such as Aikido, to better protect himself, if he was going to carry a handgun with hollowpoint bullets. In many forms of Aikido, you are taught to stay on your feet, and protect yourself against fists. Zim was a negligent student of MMA, letting himself get straddled on the gound. So negligent that Zim is unbelievable!!!

Policemen most all carry pepper spray for situations that can be handled without killing the opponent.

Pepper Spray companies should lobby for people carrying guns, to also have pepper spray.

Zim was negligent in many aspects of the situation leading to the death of Trayvon Martin

Zim had many ways in which he could have defused the situation with Trayvon Martin. Zim has not really appologized by acknoledging he could have done a number of things differently, to avoid killing Trayvon Martin.

Shooting someone is not a non-lethal options.

HowStuffWorks "Wound Ballistics"


//

Since you mention cops, which one of these options (assuming the cop had all of them) do you think the cop would have used had he been punched in the face, fallen down, been jumped on and straddled by someone who grabbed his head and pounded it into the cement a couple of times?

Pepper Spray (from the bottom position so that gravity would carry it right into his own face)
Aikido (cops aren't regularly trained in Aikido)
Stun Gun (so he could get shocked himself)
Bullet to the head (threat neutralized)

Once he was down, he was ****ed.
 

mike2810

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The statements in the OP could have been said about TM
-Carry mace/stun gun
- have self defense training.

We can play the what if game all day long. What if TM did nothing when GZ and him met up? While he didn't know it, LE was only a couple minutes away.
 

MaggieD

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The statements in the OP could have been said about TM
-Carry mace/stun gun
- have self defense training.

We can play the what if game all day long. What if TM did nothing when GZ and him met up? While he didn't know it, LE was only a couple minutes away.

What if George Zimmerman had never been born? (We can what-if ourselves into oblivion - oh! and should all over ourselves too.
 

ric27

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Zim should have been carrying Pepper Spray.

Zim should have been carrying a stun-gun.

Zim should have had more effective training, such as Aikido, to better protect himself, if he was going to carry a handgun with hollowpoint bullets. In many forms of Aikido, you are taught to stay on your feet, and protect yourself against fists. Zim was a negligent student of MMA, letting himself get straddled on the gound. So negligent that Zim is unbelievable!!!

Policemen most all carry pepper spray for situations that can be handled without killing the opponent.

Pepper Spray companies should lobby for people carrying guns, to also have pepper spray.

Zim was negligent in many aspects of the situation leading to the death of Trayvon Martin

Zim had many ways in which he could have defused the situation with Trayvon Martin. Zim has not really appologized by acknoledging he could have done a number of things differently, to avoid killing Trayvon Martin.

Shooting someone is not a non-lethal options.

HowStuffWorks "Wound Ballistics"


//

Are you allergic to gunpowder?
 

Fisher

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Depends on state law. I can get the same stuff the police carry here... but the thing is, pepperspray is not knockout gas... it is better than nothing but it does not always stop an attacker either.

Well in my state the OTC stuff is jalapeno while the po po carry the habanero. I've been sprayed with the stuff women carry in an unfortunate party incident where I was in the wrong place at the wrong time when some drunk lost all their inhibitions and thought it would be funny to pepper spray everybody. Very unpleasant but not necessarily take down strength.
 

mike2810

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What if George Zimmerman had never been born? (We can what-if ourselves into oblivion - oh! and should all over ourselves too.

I agree. The OP is just a bait post. So far as I know humans have not mastered time travel. That is why the what if is nonsense.
The what if is one reason I gave up on the conspiracy threads.
 

Sarcogito

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And while we're at it, let's not rule out the Vulcan nerve pinch.
 

Jerry

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Zim should have been carrying Pepper Spray.

Zim should have been carrying a stun-gun.

Zim should have had more effective training, such as Aikido...
Do you have all those?
 

Jerry

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Zim should have been carrying Pepper Spray.

Zim should have been carrying a stun-gun.

Zim should have had more effective training, such as Aikido, to better protect himself, if he was going to carry a handgun
with hollowpoint bullets. In many forms of Aikido, you are taught to stay on your feet, and protect yourself against fists. Zim was a negligent student of MMA, letting himself get straddled on the gound. So negligent that Zim is unbelievable!!!

Policemen most all carry pepper spray for situations that can be handled without killing the opponent.

Pepper Spray companies should lobby for people carrying guns, to also have pepper spray.

Zim was negligent in many aspects of the situation leading to the death of Trayvon Martin

Zim had many ways in which he could have defused the situation with Trayvon Martin. Zim has not really appologized by acknoledging he could have done a number of things differently, to avoid killing Trayvon Martin.

Shooting someone is not a non-lethal options.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/life/human-biology/best-place-to-get-shot1.htm


//
So if Z had standard gold dots loaded you wouldn't require him to carry a spray, baton, or have combat training?

Why?
 

year2late

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Non lethal option #1

Don't get out of the car and follow "the suspect". That way you do not create what you are trying to prevent.
 

ecofarm

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Non lethal option #1

Don't get out of the car and follow "the suspect". That way you do not create what you are trying to prevent.

The person that created was the hysterically paranoid maniac who jumped out of the darkness to attack someone. That is not a normal reaction to thinking that one (a 6 foot male, nonetheless) is being followed at 7 pm in a neighborhood and it was, by far, a more egregious error than getting out of ones car. Martin got himself killed.

There's no reason to blame others. He did what he did, brought it upon himself.
 

year2late

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The person that created was the hysterically paranoid maniac who jumped out of the darkness to attack someone. That is not a normal reaction to thinking that one (a 6 foot male, nonetheless) is being followed at 7 pm in a neighborhood and it was, by far, a more egregious error than getting out of ones car. Martin got himself killed.

There's no reason to blame others. He did what he did, brought it upon himself.

Eco, you have repeated that so many times, I think you actually believe it.:lol:

You have an infatuation with 6 foot tall males feeling impervious to crime against them.:roll:

Good 6 foot tall males will never fear being followed.

Only bad 6 foot tall males will fear being followed.

DO you realize how ridiculous that sounds....
 

ecofarm

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Eco, you have repeated that so many times, I think you actually believe it.:lol:

You have an infatuation with 6 foot tall males feeling impervious to crime against them.:roll:

Good 6 foot tall males will never fear being followed.

Only bad 6 foot tall males will fear being followed.

DO you realize how ridiculous that sounds....

I think when discussing the "I'm being followed!!", we should not forget that we are talking about a 6 foot male at 7 pm in a middle-class/gated community. What's the likelihood of the follower being a mugger, rapist or home invader (and intent on targeting a large male) under those circumstances? Zero. But Martin was convinced, in part (probably) thanks to the goading of the Hut that he was on the phone with. In some kind of hysterically paranoid psychotic rage, he became convinced that the near impossible was, in fact, about to occur... he didn't call the cops while going home, to a light area or a neighbor's house. No, he goes 'special ops' on the poor concerned neighbor.

He created an impossible victim fantasy and used it to ambush a concerned neighbor. He was obviously a great danger to any community.
 
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joko104

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Zim should have been carrying Pepper Spray.

Zim should have been carrying a stun-gun.

Zim should have had more effective training, such as Aikido, to better protect himself, if he was going to carry a handgun with hollowpoint bullets. In many forms of Aikido, you are taught to stay on your feet, and protect yourself against fists. Zim was a negligent student of MMA, letting himself get straddled on the gound. So negligent that Zim is unbelievable!!!

Policemen most all carry pepper spray for situations that can be handled without killing the opponent.

Pepper Spray companies should lobby for people carrying guns, to also have pepper spray.

Zim was negligent in many aspects of the situation leading to the death of Trayvon Martin

Zim had many ways in which he could have defused the situation with Trayvon Martin. Zim has not really appologized by acknoledging he could have done a number of things differently, to avoid killing Trayvon Martin.

Shooting someone is not a non-lethal options.

HowStuffWorks "Wound Ballistics"


//

This is about the worse OP on the topic I've seen.

Do YOU have a degree in Aikido? And if everyone had the same level of training in Aikido it would all zero out anyway.

Do YOU carry pepper spray?

And Goshin is correct. A sucker punch (though really it's a slam) generally wins.

Most Anti-Zimmerman extremists treat fights like what they see in Hollywood, except the few who boast of school yard fights in their past as if they know what the hell they are talking about.

Martin did not slug Zimmerman in the face nor was slugging him on the ground. Martin slammed him in the nose with the palm of his hand and was shoving Zimmerman's head into the concrete.

Nor are real-life fights like Hollywood Western saloon fights in which after the fight they are all joking and not injured.

Real life fights that are real fights of survival involving people who have real-life fighting experience are generally determined within the first few seconds. The reason powerful and skilled men in fighting don't often fight each other is they realized that one or the other is going to be seriously and permanently injured or killed.

The OP is of a fantasy world of non-existence legal duties and realities seemingly that the OP wants imposed on Zimmerman - that are imposed on no one else and I suspect the OP doesn't follow himself either.
 

mike2810

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Non lethal option #1

Don't get out of the car and follow "the suspect". That way you do not create what you are trying to prevent.

and how many time through various threads have you posted this theme?

It is facinating that some refuse to admit that both TM and GZ made bad decisions and actions that night. I can think of many things TM could have done different regardless of what GZ did and the outcome most likely would have been different.

So please stop this stance of TM did nothing to esculate the situation.

Hopefully the "truth" as allowed by the evidence in court will come out and the jury will make a just decision of GZ guilt or innocence.
 

year2late

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I think when discussing the "I'm being followed!!", we should not forget that we are talking about a 6 foot male at 7 pm in a middle-class/gated community. What's the likelihood of the follower being a mugger, rapist or home invader (and intent on targeting a large male) under those circumstances? Zero. But Martin was convinced, in part (probably) thanks to the goading of the Hut that he was on the phone with. In some kind of hysterically paranoid psychotic rage, he became convinced that the near impossible was, in fact, about to occur... he didn't call the cops while going home, to a light area or a neighbor's house. No, he goes 'special ops' on the poor concerned neighbor.

He created an impossible victim fantasy and used it to ambush a concerned neighbor. He was obviously a great danger to any community.

So if a man was following your 6 foot tall son by car, then on foot.....you would say to your son "turn around and shake his hand, he obviously will mean you no harm"

Oh come on Trayvon "created an impossible victim fantasy"????DO you realize how ludicris that sounds?

Well, I live in a amongst concerned neighbors, and NONE of them seem to feel the need to follow "suspects" by car then on foot while carrying a weapon. If we see something "funny" we pull out our call list, call the affected neighbor and call the police if warranted.
 

ecofarm

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Oh come on Trayvon "created an impossible victim fantasy"????DO you realize how ludicris that sounds?

1. 6 foot male
2. Roadside
3. Residential neighborhood (middle-class/gated community)
4. 7 pm
5. Car following

6. Diagnosis: ~"a mugger, rapist and home invader is about to get me! I can't go home because he'll know where I live! No time to call the cops! No point in going to a well lighted public place, no chance to knock on a neighbor's door - there's only one thing to do... Commando!"

That's ludicrous.

The only explanation is that he thought someone was after him for some reason (jewelry, fighting, drugs?), and (probably) the Hut egged his paranoid delusion on ("I didn't know it was deadly serious").
 
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Lutherf

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Zim should have been carrying Pepper Spray.

Zim should have been carrying a stun-gun.

Zim should have had more effective training, such as Aikido, to better protect himself, if he was going to carry a handgun with hollowpoint bullets. In many forms of Aikido, you are taught to stay on your feet, and protect yourself against fists. Zim was a negligent student of MMA, letting himself get straddled on the gound. So negligent that Zim is unbelievable!!!

Policemen most all carry pepper spray for situations that can be handled without killing the opponent.

Pepper Spray companies should lobby for people carrying guns, to also have pepper spray.

Zim was negligent in many aspects of the situation leading to the death of Trayvon Martin

Zim had many ways in which he could have defused the situation with Trayvon Martin. Zim has not really appologized by acknoledging he could have done a number of things differently, to avoid killing Trayvon Martin.

Shooting someone is not a non-lethal options.

HowStuffWorks "Wound Ballistics"


//

Oh come on.

Pepper spray is great right up until you come up against someone with a gun so if your goal is really self defense then you want to be armed with sufficient capability to address the most lethal threat you are likely to encounter. Pepper spray is better than nothing but it's a long way from common level self defense.
 

Oceandan

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Trayvon had MANY MORE options of still being alive today.

1.) Accept the fact some people may not know you. When felt like he was being "followed" simply stop and say hello.
2.) If he felt he was being followed by a "creepy ass cracker", simply bee line to his father's house, that was closer than the location of the altercation.
3.) Walk on the sidewalk and not cut thru between physical buildings.
4.) Knock on the nearest door and report a "creepy ass cracker".
5.) After he approached Zimmerman's car and then left the area, when Zimmerman got out, just leave the area completely.
6.) When he did "ambush" Zimmerman, instead of sucker punching him, breaking his nose, look down at him and say "how's that you creepy as cracker now leave me alone".
7.) Walk back to the seven eleven and call authorities.
8.) Stop talking to Janteel and call authorities.
9.) Make so much noise someone would have came out PRIOR to the altercation.

The ONLY reason Trayvon is no longer in this realm is HE, NO ONE ELSE, Trayvon himself, decided to escalate an encounter. The moral of the story is, be VERY CAREFUL who you decide to pick a fight with, they may be a CWP holder.
 

year2late

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I actually agree that pepper spray would not have been a good option in that case.

The only "good" option was not to follow a teen ...er....uh...suspect.... walking alone at night in a car then on foot. Let the uniforms do their job.
 

Grim17

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Trayvon had MANY MORE options of still being alive today.

1.) Accept the fact some people may not know you. When felt like he was being "followed" simply stop and say hello.
2.) If he felt he was being followed by a "creepy ass cracker", simply bee line to his father's house, that was closer than the location of the altercation.
3.) Walk on the sidewalk and not cut thru between physical buildings.
4.) Knock on the nearest door and report a "creepy ass cracker".
5.) After he approached Zimmerman's car and then left the area, when Zimmerman got out, just leave the area completely.
6.) When he did "ambush" Zimmerman, instead of sucker punching him, breaking his nose, look down at him and say "how's that you creepy as cracker now leave me alone".
7.) Walk back to the seven eleven and call authorities.
8.) Stop talking to Janteel and call authorities.
9.) Make so much noise someone would have came out PRIOR to the altercation.

The ONLY reason Trayvon is no longer in this realm is HE, NO ONE ELSE, Trayvon himself, decided to escalate an encounter. The moral of the story is, be VERY CAREFUL who you decide to pick a fight with, they may be a CWP holder.

The anti-Zimmerman crowd would have to accept the notion that Trayvon should have to accept responsibility for his actions to agree with that, so you know how this post is going to go over.
 
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