Zelenskyy says it's a 'pity' US support came 'after' Russian war began

[jpn]

LOL, sure. The reason Putin invaded Crimea in 2014, and now Ukraine in 2022, is not because Biden is handing over the cookie jar, it's that Trump was going to hand over the cookie jar, even though he didn't hand over the cookie jar.

Orange man bad!

Yes, yes he is.

Trump–Ukraine scandal - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[MrNiceGuy]

Yes, yes he is.

Trump–Ukraine scandal - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Yes, indeed, he is, but he's better than the Establishment guys like Biden who grow rich in government, rather than private practice, cutting inside deals and profiting off of war.

 

[Credence]

If it came out Biden was withholding aide until Zelensky opened up an investigation into Trump, would you want to impeach Biden over it?

Except he didn't. I think you have that backwards

 

[bluesmoke]

If Trump were President, this invasion would not have happened.

The only evidence we have is that Trump was a Putin supporter. Because they were such pals, Trump would have convinced Putin to not invade, bring all his troops back from the Ukrainian border, eschew his Russian empire, territorial ambitions, and everyone would live happily ever after. I think you nailed it.

 

[Rogue Valley]

The only evidence we have is that Trump was a Putin supporter. Because they were such pals, Trump would have convinced Putin to not invade, bring all his troops back from the Ukrainian border, eschew his Russian empire, territorial ambitions, and everyone would live happily ever after. I think you nailed it.

Lol. Good satire.

 

[Risky Thicket]

Another con OP claiming/blaming/wishing Biden to be like Trump.

The OP is ironic. Putin delayed attacking Ukraine until after the 2020 election.

Putin was certain that Donny No Balls would be re-elected.

After Trump's re-election - as we all know and as Trump as much as said - Trump planned to pull the US out of NATO and thus destroy whatever was left of the organization, leaving a clear path for Putin to begin his takeover of previous nations of the USSR.

 

[bluesmoke]

Lol. Good satire.

Rational, fact-based responses given in reply to the shotgun/machine gun nonsense blasted from con posters are not respected with like and kind replies. Just further nonsense, lacking logic or significant evidence of fact provided in response. Many dragged-out, slo-mo, ping-pong posts without any respect of the debate process. Satire, snark/sarcasm, derision, et al to expose their stupidity and monotony takes less effort than doing the research in recognition of the debate process that they, obviously, don't perform.

 

[bluesmoke]

...to begin his takeover of previous nations of the USSR.

Just a note: "...continue his takeover..." He'd already invaded and took over Ukraine's territory of Crimea and invaded Georgia but withdrew by agreement.

 

[Rogue Valley]

Just a note: "...continue his takeover..." He'd already invaded and took over Ukraine's territory of Crimea and invaded Georgia but withdrew by agreement.

Russian troops are still in Ossettia.

Every 6 months they move the border another kilometer into Georgia.

 

[bluesmoke]

Russian troops are still in Ossettia.

Every 6 months they move the border another kilometer into Georgia.

Stufenweisekrieg. The West has been giving Putin no reason to stop what he's been doing. None. Now, even if Putin pulls back, the reaction is too late. Democracy has not been, as is obvious in America, defending itself. In America, now would be too late and, IMO, likely too little.

 

[Rogue Valley]

The West has been giving Putin no reason to stop what he's been doing. None.

On this I agree 100%.

From Clinton all the way to Biden.

Europe allowed itself to get too entangled with Russian energy and business opportunities.

 

[bluesmoke]

On this I agree 100%.

From Clinton all the way to Biden.

Europe allowed itself to get too entangled with Russian energy and business opportunities.

I believe we should do business with the likes of Russia and China. I don't know where you draw the line that defines "too entangled".

 

[Rogue Valley]

I believe we should do business with the likes of Russia and China. I don't know where you draw the line that defines "too entangled".

When all of your oil/gas comes from one source, that is too entangled IMO.

 

[bluesmoke]

When all of your oil/gas comes from one source, that is too entangled IMO.

The EU imports 40% of its gas and 25% of its oil from Russian. Russia exports about 17% of all gas and 8% of all oil exports in the world, being the #3 and #1 exporter in the world of gas and oil. The US is the #1 oil producer and #2 gas exporter in the world. Like oil, gas is largely traded on a world market price. Though mostly benchmarked to crude oil price fluctuations, the natural gas market is becoming more independent from oil.

Why the Toughest Sanctions on Russia Are the Hardest for Europe to Wield (Published 2022)

Moscow relies on the money it makes by selling oil and gas, but that energy fuels Europe’s economy and heats its homes.

www.nytimes.com

Proximity may be why Europe imports so much more oil and gas from Russia than other countries. Nonetheless, I'd say 25% imports from one country, if not less, and above makes that importing country dependent on that one, single exporting country. IMO.

 

[Rogue Valley]

The EU imports 40% of its gas and 25% of its oil from Russian. Russia exports about 17% of all gas and 8% of all oil exports in the world, being the #3 and #1 exporter in the world of gas and oil. The US is the #1 oil producer and #2 gas exporter in the world. Like oil, gas is largely traded on a world market price. Though mostly benchmarked to crude oil price fluctuations, the natural gas market is becoming more independent from oil.

Why the Toughest Sanctions on Russia Are the Hardest for Europe to Wield (Published 2022)

Moscow relies on the money it makes by selling oil and gas, but that energy fuels Europe’s economy and heats its homes.

www.nytimes.com

Proximity may be why Europe imports so much more oil and gas from Russia than other countries. Nonetheless, I'd say 25% imports from one country, if not less, and above makes that importing country dependent on that one, single exporting country. IMO.

As I said in Post #88, Europe is too entangled in Russia's fossil-fuel web with is why Germany said their country will be done with Russia as an energy source by 2030.

 

[bluesmoke]

As I said in Post #88, Europe is too entangled in Russia's fossil-fuel web with is why Germany said their country will be done with Russia as an energy source by 2030.

I'm pretty sure other Euro countries will do the same, though some maybe by a few yrs later. It's not just Russia. It's oil, period. OPEC has their way with the world, and those ME countries aren't what I'd call stable. Certainly not user friendly. Venezuela having the most proven reserves is no relief.

 

[Rogue Valley]

I'm pretty sure other Euro countries will do the same, though some maybe by a few yrs later. It's not just Russia. It's oil, period. OPEC has their way with the world, and those ME countries aren't what I'd call stable. Certainly not user friendly. Venezuela having the most proven reserves is no relief.

I agree. But it's not as simple as flipping a switch.

 

[bluesmoke]

I agree. But it's not as simple as flipping a switch.

Yup. That's why we're discussing the matter in the context of about 10 yrs out and longer. Which estimates, IMO, are probably short. Even given the motivation from seeing the likes of Russia making that need so clear.

 

[bluesmoke]

As I wrote in another thread, the US and its allies are ALL responsible for seven years of feckless and anemic policy regarding Russian aggression against Ukraine. As Zemanski said, "The whole world is late".

Every American president since 2008 failed to react appropriately. One doesn't need to name them or take sides, each were motivated by either self-righteousness, self-interest, or a lack of interest.

It's a shame for Ukraine that we are so divided that we turn every political issue into partisan finger-pointing. Given the current pain of Ukraine, I find it disgusting.

What of my post can you refute as respects the OP, not of what you said on another thread? Or, are you agreeing with my post, but adding what you say as if makes Obama and Biden no worse than Trump in the handling of this matter?