Zelensky PUTS SCREWS INTO Trump after NEW BETRAYAL (1 Viewer)

[j brown's body]

Sounds a lot like the 2020 election in America.

Why yes, comrade, this certainly would apply to any election Trump lost. The 2016 Iowa Caucuses were stolen from him as well.

You're really gettin' the hang of it now.

 

[j brown's body]

Killed tens of thousands in Donbas before the Russian invasion.



Most Americans oppose further involvement in the Ukraine/Russia conflict. We have no stake in Donbas.

If Europe wants to stop this war - they don't but if they did - all they need do is put an embargo on Russian oil and the Nord Stream Pipeline. Putin would run out of funds within a month. Europe, particularly Germany and France are funding the Russian War Marchine.

Ah, but war is the goal.

Link to Zelensky's war crimes please.

Meanwhile:

"53% want U.S. to help Ukraine reclaim territory, even if it prolongs conflict."

Support for Greater U.S. Role in Ukraine Climbs to 46% High

A 46% plurality of Americans think the U.S. is not doing enough to support Ukraine, marking a sharp change in sentiment since December, largely among Democrats.

news.gallup.com

This is quite a jump in support despite Trump's blathering.

 

[Fledermaus]

Kewl, and irrelevant.

The statement I made regarded the Donbas civil war that saw the Russian army invade. Not the forever war you so desperately wish to see continue.

Ukraine lacked popular support, so did what any good tyranny would do, started slaughtering dissenters. See, you of the left want to pretend that there is a good guy. But the reality is two groups of thugs are fighting it out.

It is completely relevant.

It wasn't Russians* dying in Donbass between 2014 and 2022.

And where have I stated I wished for a "forever war"?

Ukraine lacked popular support where? When? With whom? Even in Donbass the majority wished to remain Ukraine and not some new entity.









* Other than those that crossed the border illegally to assist the Ukrainian separatists.

 

[Fledermaus]

Putin doesn't care if the Russian people suffer. War solidifies his dictatorship. That is the agreement between Putin and Obama - forever war helps them both.

Obama?

Newsflash.

Obama is neither a dictator nor is he in power.

 

[Uncensored2008]

It is completely relevant.

Because Ukraine matters to the party.

It wasn't Russians* dying in Donbass between 2014 and 2022.

14,000 people died in the civil war. Both Ukrainian and Russian. You of the far left demand that all must chose sides. That if we question the glory and perfection of Zalenskyy to perfect in any way, we are hardline Putin supporters.

And where have I stated I wished for a "forever war"?

Your support for the Ukraine conflict is just that. The war in Afghanistan ended and the War Pigs just couldn't allow that. Trump was ordered to start a war in Syria, but refused - turning the MIC against him. Leaving the War Pigs without a profit point., But once Obama started his third term, Ukraine because the point for the new forever war.

Ukraine lacked popular support where? When? With whom? Even in Donbass the majority wished to remain Ukraine and not some new entity.

Donbas.

An election was held - but democracy is too important for you of the extreme left to let elections interfere.

* Other than those that crossed the border illegally to assist the Ukrainian separatists.

Non Sequitur.

 

[Fledermaus]

Because Ukraine matters to the party.

14,000 people died in the civil war. Both Ukrainian and Russian. You of the far left demand that all must chose sides. That if we question the glory and perfection of Zalenskyy to perfect in any way, we are hardline Putin supporters.

14,000 Ukrainians* died in that struggle.

*Except for the Russian military personnel illegally engaged.

It isn't some imaginary "left" thing.

Your support for the Ukraine conflict is just that. The war in Afghanistan ended and the War Pigs just couldn't allow that. Trump was ordered to start a war in Syria, but refused - turning the MIC against him. Leaving the War Pigs without a profit point., But once Obama started his third term, Ukraine because the point for the new forever war.

.

My support for Ukraine is due to it being invaded by Russia.

No where have I endorsed "forever war".

Donbas.

An election was held - but democracy is too important for you of the extreme left to let elections interfere.

Donbass majority wished to remain Ukraine.

Any later "elections" under separatist/Russian control are suspicious.

Non Sequitur.

Truth.

 

[iguanaman]

Killed tens of thousands in Donbas before the Russian invasion.



Most Americans oppose further involvement in the Ukraine/Russia conflict. We have no stake in Donbas.

If Europe wants to stop this war - they don't but if they did - all they need do is put an embargo on Russian oil and the Nord Stream Pipeline. Putin would run out of funds within a month. Europe, particularly Germany and France are funding the Russian War Marchine.

Ah, but war is the goal.

Stop lying about the American people who overwhelming support continuing our military aid to Ukraine. You are in a small 30% minority of hardline Stalinists who think Putin is a good leader. 69% of Americans think American support of Ukraine is the right amount or not enough. Also the Nord stream Pipeline is long gone. You didn't know that?

American Public Support for Ukraine Grows​

 

[Tigerace117]

Stop lying about the American people who overwhelming support continuing our military aid to Ukraine. You are in a small 30% minority of hardline Stalinists who think Putin is a good leader. 69% of Americans think American support of Ukraine is the right amount or not enough. Also the Nord stream Pipeline is long gone. You didn't know that?

American Public Support for Ukraine Grows​

The Ukrainians bombed it and blamed the Russians for it, yes. Not that the West was honest enough to acknowledge their mistake once that came out

The idea that 30 percent of Americans are “Stalinists”, of any sort, much less “hardcore” ones, is laughable on every level.

 

[Jredbaron96]

That is a blatant lie. 4 out of 5 voters supported joining Russia/

No they didn't.

 

[j brown's body]

Because Ukraine matters to the party.



14,000 people died in the civil war. Both Ukrainian and Russian. You of the far left demand that all must chose sides. That if we question the glory and perfection of Zalenskyy to perfect in any way, we are hardline Putin supporters.



Your support for the Ukraine conflict is just that. The war in Afghanistan ended and the War Pigs just couldn't allow that. Trump was ordered to start a war in Syria, but refused - turning the MIC against him. Leaving the War Pigs without a profit point., But once Obama started his third term, Ukraine because the point for the new forever war.



Donbas.

An election was held - but democracy is too important for you of the extreme left to let elections interfere.


Non Sequitur.

Just curious, where do you get your information?

 

[maxparrish]

Kazakhstan was a major part of the former Soviet Union. If Putin was interested in “reclaiming the USSR” it “not being Russian” shouldn’t matter in the slightest; he should have already annexed it.

And seeing how many Russians live in northern Kazakhstan, that argument doesn’t really hold up either.

So yes, he could have annexed all those places without all that much trouble. Why hasn’t he?

Gee, judging by the US’ example, “western styled democratic state” equates to psychotically aggressive and willing to attack supposed allies for any reason or none at all.

But he hasn’t actually done those “small annexations”, which is the rather obvious point I made.

The Baltic States were immensely enthusiastic about allying with the Nazis to wipe out their Jewish population, actually.

You are not listening and making a presumption - this isn't an effort to make a new USSR, but a Russian empire. Read the parts about empires being composed of various relationships, not necessarily outright annexation; the part about Russian nationalism valuing some parts of the prior empire greater than others; that Putin's thinking has evolved and exposure to this ideology has increased his aspirations; etc.

Kazakhstan isn't a priority, yet, and has a measure of autonomy and caution, knowing that 80 percent of its oil export is through Russia and so makes its economic ties to Russia preeminent. Moreover, they don't have democratic values and are not an economic nor ideological threat to Putin's regime. Russians have emigrated in large numbers, the residual population being more nationalistic towards their country.

Not that the pretext for occupation hasn't been established; Putin has noted Kazakhs never had a state and that their future lies within Russia's orbit...considered a warning. Since then, warnings have cascaded from the mouths of numerous Russian officials and media echoing the same rhetoric used against Ukraine. Same story: Kazakhstan is an artificial, that “Northern Kazakhstan was not inhabited at all” and is “a great gift from Russia and the Soviet Union.”, that "Nazi processes" could start, that "radical nationalist tendencies" were afoot, that northern Kazakstan was "a gift", yada , yada.

Finally, I'm not sure how 80 years after WW2, and the Soviet Union's occupation and annexation of the Baltic states helps your denial of Russian aspirations, but thanks for the support.

 

[Tigerace117]

You are not listening and making a presumption - this isn't an effort to make a new USSR, but a Russian empire. Read the parts about empires being composed of various relationships, not necessarily outright annexation; the part about Russian nationalism valuing some parts of the prior empire greater than others; that Putin's thinking has evolved and exposure to this ideology has increased his aspirations; etc.

Kazakhstan isn't a priority, yet, and has a measure of autonomy and caution, knowing that 80 percent of its oil export is through Russia and so makes its economic ties to Russia preeminent. Moreover, they don't have democratic values and are not an economic nor ideological threat to Putin's regime. Russians have emigrated in large numbers, the residual population being more nationalistic towards their country.

Not that the pretext for occupation hasn't been established; Putin has noted Kazakhs never had a state and that their future lies within Russia's orbit...considered a warning. Since then, warnings have cascaded from the mouths of numerous Russian officials and media echoing the same rhetoric used against Ukraine. Same story: Kazakhstan is an artificial, that “Northern Kazakhstan was not inhabited at all” and is “a great gift from Russia and the Soviet Union.”, that "Nazi processes" could start, that "radical nationalist tendencies" were afoot, that northern Kazakstan was "a gift", yada , yada.

Finally, I'm not sure how 80 years after WW2, and the Soviet Union's occupation and annexation of the Baltic states helps your denial of Russian aspirations, but thanks for the support.

Hmm. That’s odd, because the posts I replied to explicitly stated Putin was “trying to recreate the USSR”, and Kazakhstan was also an important part of the Russian Empire.

The Kazakhs are indeed a Russian ally, and unlike, the US, the Russians aren’t eagerly planning to annex their supposed friends, which rather clearly contradicts the narrative of Russia planning all out invasions of “every one of their neighbors” that keep being asserted in the West.

And yet so many of the Nazis’ allies have never gotten over the ass kicking the Soviets gave them.

 

[iguanaman]

The Ukrainians bombed it and blamed the Russians for it, yes. Not that the West was honest enough to acknowledge their mistake once that came out

The idea that 30 percent of Americans are “Stalinists”, of any sort, much less “hardcore” ones, is laughable on every level.

Hearing that from a devout Stalinist is amusing to say the least. Russia is a Stalinist nation and you constantly appease and support it. Putin killed the Nordsteam when he invaded Ukraine and it matters not who set the charges.

 

[Tigerace117]

Hearing that from a devout Stalinist is amusing to say the least. Russia is a Stalinist nation and you constantly appease and support it. Putin killed the Nordsteam when he invaded Ukraine and it matters not who set the charges.

And your evidence of me being a Stalinist is....what, exactly?

Russia is not “Stalinist”, no. Words have actually actual meaning.

Nope, what “killed” Nordstream was a Ukrainian terrorist attack, as shown by the fact they didn’t admit doing it.

 

[iguanaman]

And your evidence of me being a Stalinist is....what, exactly?

Russia is not “Stalinist”, no. Words have actually actual meaning.

Nope, what “killed” Nordstream was a Ukrainian terrorist att

​

Nordstream was dead and useless the minute Putin invaded Ukraine. It had no purpose. It was waste of good explosives to destroy it.

Russia Is Back to the Stalinist Future​

With a Soviet-style election, Vladimir Putin’s Russia has come full circle.​

In Russian-occupied Crimea and eastern Ukraine since 2014, there has been a widespread campaign of surveillance, summary executions, arrests, torture, and intimidation—all entirely consistent with Soviet practice toward conquered populations. More recently, this includes the old practice of forced political recantations: A Telegram channel ominously called Crimean SMERSH (a portmanteau of the Russian words for “death to spies,” coined by Stalin himself) has posted dozens of videos of frightened Ukrainians recanting their Ukrainian identity or the display of Ukrainian symbols. Made in conjunction with police operations, these videos appear to be coordinated with state security services.

In the parts of Ukraine newly occupied since 2022, human rights groups have widely documented human rights abuses and potential war crimes. These include the abduction of children, imprisonment of Ukrainians in a system of filtration camps that recall the Soviet gulags, and the systematic use of rape and torture to break the will of Ukrainians. Castrations of Ukrainian men have also been employed.

As Russia’s violence in Ukraine has expanded, so, too, has the acceptance of these abominations throughout the state and in much of society. As during the Stalin era, the cult of cruelty and the culture of fear are now the legal and moral standards. The climate of fear initially employed to assert order in occupied regions is now being applied to Russia itself. In this context, the murder of Alexei Navalny ahead of the presidential election was an important message from Putin to the Russian people: There is no longer any alternative to the war and repressive political order he has imposed, of which Navalny’s elimination is a part.

Putin now resembles Stalin more closely than any other Soviet or Russian leader. Unlike Nikita Khrushchev, Leonid Brezhnev, Konstantin Chernenko, and Yuri Andropov—not to mention Mikhail Gorbachev and Boris Yeltsin—Putin has unquestioned power that is not shared or limited in any way by parliament, courts, or a Politburo. State propaganda has created a Stalin-like personality cult that lionizes Putin’s absolute power, genius as a leader, and role as a brilliant wartime generalissimo. It projects him as the fearsome and all-powerful head of a militarized nation aiming, like Stalin, to defeat a “Nazi” regime in Ukraine and reassert hegemony over Eastern and Central Europe. Just as Stalin made effective use of the Russian Orthodox Church to support Russia’s effort during World War II, Putin has effectively used Russian Orthodox Patriarch Kirill as a critical ally and cheerleader of Russia’s brutal war in Ukraine. And just like Stalin, Putin has made invading neighboring countries and annexing territory a central focus of the Kremlin’s foreign policy.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2024/03/2...-election-war-repression-political-prisoners/

 

[Tigerace117]

Nordstream was dead and useless the minute Putin invaded Ukraine. It had no purpose. It was waste of good explosives to destroy it.

Russia Is Back to the Stalinist Future​

With a Soviet-style election, Vladimir Putin’s Russia has come full circle.​

In Russian-occupied Crimea and eastern Ukraine since 2014, there has been a widespread campaign of surveillance, summary executions, arrests, torture, and intimidation—all entirely consistent with Soviet practice toward conquered populations. More recently, this includes the old practice of forced political recantations: A Telegram channel ominously called Crimean SMERSH (a portmanteau of the Russian words for “death to spies,” coined by Stalin himself) has posted dozens of videos of frightened Ukrainians recanting their Ukrainian identity or the display of Ukrainian symbols. Made in conjunction with police operations, these videos appear to be coordinated with state security services.

In the parts of Ukraine newly occupied since 2022, human rights groups have widely documented human rights abuses and potential war crimes. These include the abduction of children, imprisonment of Ukrainians in a system of filtration camps that recall the Soviet gulags, and the systematic use of rape and torture to break the will of Ukrainians. Castrations of Ukrainian men have also been employed.

As Russia’s violence in Ukraine has expanded, so, too, has the acceptance of these abominations throughout the state and in much of society. As during the Stalin era, the cult of cruelty and the culture of fear are now the legal and moral standards. The climate of fear initially employed to assert order in occupied regions is now being applied to Russia itself. In this context, the murder of Alexei Navalny ahead of the presidential election was an important message from Putin to the Russian people: There is no longer any alternative to the war and repressive political order he has imposed, of which Navalny’s elimination is a part.

Putin now resembles Stalin more closely than any other Soviet or Russian leader. Unlike Nikita Khrushchev, Leonid Brezhnev, Konstantin Chernenko, and Yuri Andropov—not to mention Mikhail Gorbachev and Boris Yeltsin—Putin has unquestioned power that is not shared or limited in any way by parliament, courts, or a Politburo. State propaganda has created a Stalin-like personality cult that lionizes Putin’s absolute power, genius as a leader, and role as a brilliant wartime generalissimo. It projects him as the fearsome and all-powerful head of a militarized nation aiming, like Stalin, to defeat a “Nazi” regime in Ukraine and reassert hegemony over Eastern and Central Europe. Just as Stalin made effective use of the Russian Orthodox Church to support Russia’s effort during World War II, Putin has effectively used Russian Orthodox Patriarch Kirill as a critical ally and cheerleader of Russia’s brutal war in Ukraine. And just like Stalin, Putin has made invading neighboring countries and annexing territory a central focus of the Kremlin’s foreign policy.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2024/03/2...-election-war-repression-political-prisoners/

Gee, if that were true the Ukrainians wouldn’t have felt the need to launch a terrorist attack against it.

 

[iguanaman]

Gee, if that were true the Ukrainians wouldn’t have felt the need to launch a terrorist attack against it.

I guess the low hanging fruit was just too tempting. Putin spent billions on that pipeline and seeing it go up in smoke must have been quite hard on him. Speaking of bad news for Putin it appears his military has been given orders to launch a lot of assaults and Ukraine has been having a field day destroying them.

 

[Tigerace117]

I guess the low hanging fruit was just too tempting. Putin spent billions on that pipeline and seeing it go up in smoke must have been quite hard on him. Speaking of bad news for Putin it appears his military has been given orders to launch a lot of assaults and Ukraine has been having a field day destroying them.

They sure had a field day fleeing from Kursk in disarray. The war has been going so poorly for Kiev Ukraine’s apologists have been reducing to making wild claims about Russia having lost a million KIA

 

[iguanaman]

They sure had a field day fleeing from Kursk in disarray. The war has been going so poorly for Kiev Ukraine’s apologists have been reducing to making wild claims about Russia having lost a million KIA

Actually Ukraine stopped an attack on their forces in Kurst and they are still holding Russian territory. The Russian military is totally incompetent.

 

[Tigerace117]

Actually Ukraine stopped an attack on their forces in Kurst and they are still holding Russian territory. The Russian military is totally incompetent.

The fact they lost the vast majority of the tiny chunk of Kursk they took strongly demonstrated otherwise.

They hold a tiny fraction of a fraction of the oblast, none of which has any real value.

The repeated defeats they’ve inflicted on the Ukrainians argues otherwise.

 

[Fledermaus]

Actually Ukraine stopped an attack on their forces in Kurst and they are still holding Russian territory. The Russian military is totally incompetent.

You can teach them. But you can't learn them.

 

[iguanaman]

The fact they lost the vast majority of the tiny chunk of Kursk they took strongly demonstrated otherwise.

They hold a tiny fraction of a fraction of the oblast, none of which has any real value.

The repeated defeats they’ve inflicted on the Ukrainians argues otherwise.

The "value" is the Russian troops and equipment that are being liquidated and there has been a lot of it. Ukraine will leave Russian territory when they are good and ready. There was no surrounding of Ukraine there and they will stay as long as they can keep luring more military away from Ukraine.

 

[Tigerace117]

The "value" is the Russian troops and equipment that are being liquidated and there has been a lot of it. Ukraine will leave Russian territory when they are good and ready. There was no surrounding of Ukraine there and they will stay as long as they can keep luring more military away from Ukraine.

The Ukrainians are losing plenty of men and equipment themselves, and their habit of doubling and tripling down on failure, as you just pointed out, shows that they haven’t learned from their mistakes.

The Russians kept capturing more land in Ukraine the entire time, so clearly that plan didn’t work.

 

[Tiger]

Link to Zelensky's war crimes please.

Meanwhile:

"53% want U.S. to help Ukraine reclaim territory, even if it prolongs conflict."

Support for Greater U.S. Role in Ukraine Climbs to 46% High

A 46% plurality of Americans think the U.S. is not doing enough to support Ukraine, marking a sharp change in sentiment since December, largely among Democrats.

news.gallup.com

This is quite a jump in support despite Trump's blathering.

View attachment 67565478

Do you really believe that America's foreign policy about whether or not we should bomb and kill should be based upon what's popular in any given Gallup poll?

President Trump campaigned on ending this dumb proxy war, not extending it. The majority of Americans voted for him to end Biden's proxy war. Besides, your 46% chart represents independents polls. Your link shows 79% of Dems think it's too little, while only 12% of Republicans think its not enough.

 

[The Mark]

Trump says Zelensky started the war. Do you agree?

No

There is absolutely no support from the entire American left for dealing with China. The American left is enamored with the CCP and wants to institute something very similar in the US. The American left wants China to put 100% tariffs on all American goods and services and abolish all tariffs on Chinese goods entering the US. Hell, they probably want the US government to subsidize Chinese manufacturing and shipping.

This is the first I've heard of such a thing, can you show me what led you to this conclusion?