Youth with BB gun resembling firearm shot by police in East Baltimore

[Deuce]

I think the failure is on the parents or parent to tell their kids that if a cop tells you you to drop the gun you drop the gun and to not go waving it around around and to not run from the cops. Should bb gun manufacturers put a common sense warning label on their products that if you wave this around like a real gun or do anything to make this look like a gun you may get shot by the cops?

Did the cops tell him to drop the gun or did the cops just roll up and shoot the kid in under two seconds like that other time?

 

[Deuce]

We shouldn't be paying a damn dime. We should be holding bad parents responsible for failing their own children. The solution isn't blaming cops for not coddling the terminally stupid, it's blaming the people who actually caused the irresponsible behavior in the first place. This is really where the left has screwed up, pointing fingers at everyone else and never accepting any personal responsibility themselves.

I am 100% comfortable with blaming police officers for killing citizens when it wasn't necessary. Particularly children.

Police officers are adults who are supposed to be trained in these confrontations.

The core characteristic of a child is making bad decisions. Half our legal system is built around the idea that children can't make good decisions. No amount of parenting can get around the fact that kids are stupid. They start out completely stupid, but unable to really move around so their ability to hurt themselves is limited. But then they get a little more mobile, and a little less stupid but still extremely stupid. Then you have to watch them constantly. Gradually, they get less and less stupid to the point where eventually they're unlikely to kill themselves. Then we call them an adult.

 

[Cephus]

I am 100% comfortable with blaming police officers for killing citizens when it wasn't necessary.

How are they supposed to know it isn't necessary when you have people waving around guns, fake or not? Do you think they teach cops telepathy at the academy or something?

 

[Deuce]

How are they supposed to know it isn't necessary when you have people waving around guns, fake or not? Do you think they teach cops telepathy at the academy or something?

Using a previous example of a kid with a toy gun, the police rolled up five feet away and shot the kid in less than two seconds.

Now, use your critical thinking skills and I bet you can come up with actions that would have allowed for a chance at a peaceful resolution.

 

[chuckiechan]

I am 100% comfortable with blaming police officers for killing citizens when it wasn't necessary. Particularly children.

Police officers are adults who are supposed to be trained in these confrontations.

The core characteristic of a child is making bad decisions. Half our legal system is built around the idea that children can't make good decisions. No amount of parenting can get around the fact that kids are stupid. They start out completely stupid, but unable to really move around so their ability to hurt themselves is limited. But then they get a little more mobile, and a little less stupid but still extremely stupid. Then you have to watch them constantly. Gradually, they get less and less stupid to the point where eventually they're unlikely to kill themselves. Then we call them an adult.

Deuce, You are like that person in Baltimore who made up a phony story and caused a riot. You don't know squat about what went on between that kid and the cops. The kid probably watches too much TV, expecting the cops to shout "drop the gun or I'll shoot". Not necessarily. That gun looked as real as any real gun can look. If I slash at you with a fake plastic knife, I'll bet you'll still think I'm going to kill you until you realize it's fake.

Look at the cop killings in Chicago. They have killed three people:
2016 Stats | Chicago Murder, Crime & Mayhem | HeyJackass!

If I had one for "Bodymore" I'd post it.

 

[Deuce]

Deuce, You are like that person in Baltimore who made up a phony story and caused a riot. You don't know squat about what went on between that kid and the cops. The kid probably watches too much TV, expecting the cops to shout "drop the gun or I'll shoot". Not necessarily. That gun looked as real as any real gun can look. If I slash at you with a fake plastic knife, I'll bet you'll still think I'm going to kill you until you realize it's fake.

Look at the cop killings in Chicago. They have killed three people:
2016 Stats | Chicago Murder, Crime & Mayhem | HeyJackass!

If I had one for "Bodymore" I'd post it.

Is there something unreasonable about expecting police officers to make an attempt at a peaceful resolution before killing a child?

Really? I'm just being crazy here?

 

[Cephus]

Is there something unreasonable about expecting police officers to make an attempt at a peaceful resolution before killing a child?

Really? I'm just being crazy here?

If they can do so without potentially placing their own lives in danger, absolutely, and they do, but when you have someone swinging a gun around, they can't take that chance. The fault isn't with the cops, it is with the person with the gun, real or fake.

 

[Ikari]

We pay millions because society has become far too liberalized. Blame it on the left.

Blame it on the rain. It doesn't matter, what matters is that this is the way it is, we have to deal with it. These shootings will continue to happen less we do something about it. And when they occur, your looking at millions of dollars being paid out. That's reality.

 

[Cephus]

Blame it on the rain. It doesn't matter, what matters is that this is the way it is, we have to deal with it. These shootings will continue to happen less we do something about it. And when they occur, your looking at millions of dollars being paid out. That's reality.

If you're going to say that, then what's the point of the constant whining we get from libertarians about the way things are? It doesn't matter, what matters is the way things are. And yes, the shootings will continue so long as there are stupid, irresponsible people. That's reality.

 

[Deuce]

If they can do so without potentially placing their own lives in danger, absolutely, and they do, but when you have someone swinging a gun around, they can't take that chance. The fault isn't with the cops, it is with the person with the gun, real or fake.

We don't have video of this incident as far as I know, so there's only speculation as to what exactly went down. But the report says the kid was running, not "swinging a gun around," when he was shot.

And let me clarify here:
I am absolutely not stating that I think the officers were in the wrong with this particular incident. Before, I was speaking in general.

 

[Ikari]

If you're going to say that, then what's the point of the constant whining we get from libertarians about the way things are? It doesn't matter, what matters is the way things are. And yes, the shootings will continue so long as there are stupid, irresponsible people. That's reality.

It is, so to make changes we start with reality. We both seem to want to lower or eliminate these huge payoffs, so how do you propose we achieve that?

I say that the problem can be solved if we don't kill so many people. But I'm pro-life, so generally I look for the solutions that can save lives. As such, I think it would be prudent to develop a reliable line of less-than-lethal tools that police can use as first response weapons. Update training programs for police, teach threat assessment and how to properly use the new tools. We should be able to lower the incidents resulting in suspicious deaths of the suspect this way.

What do you want? Laws preventing people from suing the government? Financial caps on lawsuits against the government?

 

[Cephus]

We don't have video of this incident as far as I know, so there's only speculation as to what exactly went down. But the report says the kid was running, not "swinging a gun around," when he was shot.

And let me clarify here:
I am absolutely not stating that I think the officers were in the wrong with this particular incident. Before, I was speaking in general.

There is no "in general". You can only look at a particular incident and decide if, in that particular incident, deadly force was called for. You can't think about what we eventually found out, you can only go by what the officer knew on the scene in that particular moment. Any gun that is not known, for a fact, to be fake, has to be treated as real and potentially deadly. And you can't pretend that kids are safe, lots of cops have lost their lives, being shot with real guns by kids. So please, tell me what rules we can put in place without putting the cop's life in any more danger, that will save any of these kids. I don't think you can come up with one.

 

[braindrain]

What we have now may not be a.good option. Bit it doesn't mean we cannot build and engineer a reliable solution.

Or you're fine with paying out millions of dollars every time cops shoot kids in this manner. I'm not. So if we want to fix the problem, we have to see what levers we have. People.are.always going to do stupid things, kids particularly, so we.probably won't stop kids running around with fake guns.

We.can ban all fake guns, or make more laws that forbid fake guns from looking anything like the real thing.

We can adjust the interaction between police and the citizens. And it is within this option that wencan examine using less-than-lethal tools. It would likely take less than 6 million dollars to develop a reliable less-than-lethal option and such an option, should it exist, would help to limit the number of police shootings resulting in lawsuits and.settlements. some short term investment for some long term gains.

So your answer is that the parents are owed millions of dollars because the technology to reliably take dangerous suspects down don't exist as of yet.

Yeah that makes lots of sense. How about we worrying about things that actually exist.

 

[Ikari]

So your answer is that the parents are owed millions of dollars because the technology to reliably take dangerous suspects down don't exist as of yet.

Yeah that makes lots of sense. How about we worrying about things that actually exist.

I don't know if they are "owed" it, but they'll get it. And that is a "thing that actually exists", so perhaps follow your own advise.

Also, you could not have misconstrued the point as to why we should try to develop better less-than-lethal tools any more than you did here. At no point did I suggest the payouts are deserved because we lack less-than-lethal options.

 

[Cephus]

It is, so to make changes we start with reality. We both seem to want to lower or eliminate these huge payoffs, so how do you propose we achieve that?

The whole reason these payoffs exist in the first place is because we live in a liberal society where people don't care about personal responsibility, they want to blame others for their troubles and have their hands out for a payday.

I say that the problem can be solved if we don't kill so many people. But I'm pro-life, so generally I look for the solutions that can save lives. As such, I think it would be prudent to develop a reliable line of less-than-lethal tools that police can use as first response weapons. Update training programs for police, teach threat assessment and how to properly use the new tools. We should be able to lower the incidents resulting in suspicious deaths of the suspect this way.

But that won't actually solve the problem because the problem goes far beyond the cops. It's a symptom of the problem and that problem is entitlement-happy liberal thinking. When you've got whiny college students crying because they're being asked to do their damn homework and that gets in the way of their activism, when you have them demanding that administrators be fired because they're just not happy with everything, when you have people suing everyone and their brother for looking at them funny, demanding free healthcare, free schooling, free everything because they bothered to wake up in the morning, that's a massive societal problem. Where the police do wrong, definitely hold them accountable. But we have liberals out there who are blaming cops all the time, regardless of circumstances, because they don't like anyone having any authority. Even if you somehow made the police safer and didn't open them up to any more potential harm, it wouldn't solve the problem, it would just move it to something else.

What do you want? Laws preventing people from suing the government? Financial caps on lawsuits against the government?

No, a social return to personal responsibility. That's the only way to actually solve the problem. Anything else is just treating the symptoms.

 

[Ikari]

No, a social return to personal responsibility. That's the only way to actually solve the problem. Anything else is just treating the symptoms.

OK, how can we achieve this?

 

[Cephus]

OK, how can we achieve this?

Nothing worth doing is easy, it is going to take a lot of work. How do you suggest that we keep the cops safe while not giving them weapons that hurt anyone else? That's just as hard. Non-lethal weapons just don't incapacitate as quickly as lethal ones.

 

[danarhea]

Orange tip? Or did this kid remove it too?

I believe it should be illegal to remove the orange tip and also illegal to manufacture lookalikes. There is absolutely no good reason for the toy to resemble the real thing.

When I was a kid, toy guns were the rage. We played cops and robbers, cowboys and indians, role played WWII, and all kinds of other games. Nobody was ever shot by a cop for doing so.

Times have changed. Many kids who were the age I was when I was having all that fun carry the real thing now, and the cops all have itchy trigger fingers, seeing any kid with something that looks like a gun as a threat to his life.

It's not the kids, and it's not the cops. What it is...............is complicated.

 

[Spartacus FPV]

stop and frisk laws were considered gun control laws, but because they only affected black people the NRA could care less. If you disagree then show me an example of the NRA defending a black persons right too own a gun, ever.

lol, meet NRA Spokesperson, and black man, Colion Noir

 

[mike2810]

Toy guns should not be manufactured...or sold.

Any parent (especially a black parent) allowing a kid to go out on the street to play with a toy resembling a gun in any way...is a piss poor parent.

If a person has what looks like a gun in the presence of a police officer...there is a better than good chance the cop is going to shoot...and well the officer should.

In today's world , maybe. I grew up playing war games, cop/robbers. Had many toy guns and rifles. My parents taught me enough to know what to do and not do with the toys.

imo, it goes much deeper than maybe poor parenting.

 

[Cephus]

In today's world , maybe. I grew up playing war games, cop/robbers. Had many toy guns and rifles. My parents taught me enough to know what to do and not do with the toys.

imo, it goes much deeper than maybe poor parenting.

It's a different world today than when we grew up, or when our parents grew up. When my father was in high school, he kept a rifle in his car at school in full view and nobody said a word. So did most other people. Today, people would crap themselves if anyone tried that in most places.

 

[mike2810]

It's a different world today than when we grew up, or when our parents grew up. When my father was in high school, he kept a rifle in his car at school in full view and nobody said a word. So did most other people. Today, people would crap themselves if anyone tried that in most places.

It is a different world and am sure I don't like the trend. "we" are to blame for letting it happen.

 

[apdst]

Another black teenager 14 year old Dedric Colvin was shot by police for playing with a toy gun, on the anniversary of Freddie Gray's murder no less. Police are again using the ridiculous lie that he pointed the gun at them. Luckily it is believed he will survive the shooting, but this will likely happen again. And since the police are not required to record information about shootings like this. It is not known how many times this occurs in america unless it makes the news. The NRA and other so called "2nd amendment rights" activists will of course, back the police on this as well.






Youth with BB gun resembling firearm shot by police in East Baltimore - Baltimore Sun

Do you think the police should be required to keep track of data, concerning shootings? Do you think toy guns should be illegal? Do police have the right to interrogate and arrest someone for holding a gun in public?

This is another tragic mistake. Unfortunately, there's no way to stop these incidents 100%.

 

[jaeger19]

Then it should be illegal to manufacture these lookalikes. Again, no good or legal reason for them.

Also, I'll reiterate what one of the comments on the page says - the kid was not shot for carrying the imitation firearm, he was shot because he was stupid. He came perilously close to being yet another Darwin Award winner.

BB guns have multiple legal reasons for owning them.

I used one for target practice as a young man when I shot competitively. I also have used one for hunting as well.

 

[Cephus]

It is a different world and am sure I don't like the trend. "we" are to blame for letting it happen.

If, by "we" you mean the American people, I agree. The whole place has gotten screwed up.