• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Your vote doesn’t count

S

Simpletruther

DP Veteran
Joined
May 18, 2019
Messages
19,275
Reaction score
3,644
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
At least in the practical sense of making a difference in the outcome of elections.

This is a near universal truth beyond the very local level. And even locally it’s a rare event.

The odds of your vote deciding A national election have to be many millions to one.

So, why not vote for who you like the most, as a matter of principal? Or don’t vote, if there are no good candidates?
 


I think that's how we all vote now. I could care less what Jackass or Elephant leads the party.
 
saying that it doesn't count is false. however, it doesn't count as much as i'd like, especially in the primaries. the candidate has usually been picked by the time i get a chance to weigh in. i'd like to see that change.
 
Helix said:
saying that it doesn't count is false. however, it doesn't count as much as i'd like, especially in the primaries. the candidate has usually been picked by the time i get a chance to weigh in. i'd like to see that change.
Click to expand...

Again I mean in the sense of making a difference in the outcome. It really doesn’t count.
 
Simpletruther said:
Again I mean in the sense of making a difference in the outcome. It really doesn’t count.
Click to expand...

i don't agree. however, no one is forcing you to vote.
 
Whose 80,000 votes made Trump President in 2016? It's not about the individual voter, but the collective will of the people. Which is why it should be one person, one vote in the general. And the primaries should perhaps also be done on a national level.

We don't need Presidents running for governor of only certain states, they should run on a mandate from a majority of the entire population of the country.
 
I will note, I am totally okay with those on the Right voting for whatever candidate they want. The Libertarian Party in particular sounds promising.
 
Your vote doesn't count

Trumper propaganda. In 2016 Trump won Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin each by minuscule numbers, giving him the Electoral College win.

Every single vote counts! Remember that on November 3, 2020.
 
Rogue Valley said:
Your vote doesn't count

Trumper propaganda. In 2016 Trump won Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin each by minuscule numbers, giving him the Electoral College win.

Every single vote counts! Remember that on November 3, 2020.
Click to expand...


I think that ^ is trump propaganda.
 

I done that all my life. There have been elections where I don't like neither major party candidates, so I vote against them, third party. I've voted in ever presidential election since 1968 when you had to be 21 to vote. Five of those elections, my vote went to third party candidates. Three times because I wanted the third party candidate to win, the last two because I thought it was so important to have my vote officially registered against both major party candidates.

The R and the D mean nothing to me. The candidates do, candidates matter to me.
 

Baloney! The last election was decided by 80,000 votes in 3 key states. Not because 80,000 Democrats voted for tRump but because Millions of Democrats were persuaded that the election was a lock or that Clinton was damaged or … whatever … they stayed home. And look what happened. Getting to the polls AbsaByGodLutely matters.
 
Perotista said:
The R and the D mean nothing to me. The candidates do, candidates matter to me.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, the R and D are about 95% of the choice. It's an illusion if you think it's about the person, not the party.
 
Problem with the OP is that if people listen and do it, then larger numbers will change their vote and it's more likely to change the result.
 
You are confusing masses of people with yourself, a total of one vote.

My OP is demonstratably true. It’s just math.
 
Craig234 said:
Problem with the OP is that if people listen and do it, then larger numbers will change their vote and it's more likely to change the result.
Click to expand...

Well, for one thing, it still wouldn’t change the point of your individual vote, that is undeniable math.

But if one could be so influencial, then all the more reason to preach voting conscious, as it might mean a real change and more integrity in the process and real reform becasue of our influence.
 
Hear! Hear!
 
The Democratic Party wants to make it so your entire state doesn't matter. They want to erase "The United States of" from what this country has always been. It takes central control for a total take-over.
 
Last edited:
Craig234 said:
Unfortunately, the R and D are about 95% of the choice. It's an illusion if you think it's about the person, not the party.
Click to expand...

All you're doing when you support the R and or the D is deciding which corporate and Wall Street firms, lobbyists, special interests get more government support and benefits than the others. Of course nowadays, quite a lot of those folks donate to both parties with usually incumbents getting the far larger share. Incumbents usually win, so that is the thinking behind that.

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?
 
Simpletruther said:
You are confusing masses of people with yourself, a total of one vote.

My OP is demonstratably true. It’s just math.
Click to expand...

But, the 16 election proves that even if it's true on a micro level, it's demonstrably false on a National level. Every vote is needed and every vote counts.
 
Irwin Corey said:
But, the 16 election proves that even if it's true on a micro level, it's demonstrably false on a National level. Every vote is needed and every vote counts.
Click to expand...

Not unless a deciding state comes down to one vote difference.

Unless that happens, whether you went to the polls or not makes no difference. You vote didn’t count (in The sense of effecting the outcome).

And it likely will not happen in 10 thousand years of voting. It’s undeniable math.


A person can only vote on a “micro level”. They can’t vote for anyone else.
 

What was the collective will of the people. 54% of all Americans voted against Trump, in my way of thinking the collective will of the people was they didn't want Trump as president. 52% of all Americans voted against Hillary Clinton, again the collective will of the people didn't want her as president either. The majority voted against both major party candidates. Close to 17 million people decided Hillary would be one of the two candidates, 14 million folks made Trump the other.

Now a national primary isn't a bad idea. I'm not sure how it would be done, perhaps as a jungle primary. Our CD-6 special election was held that way. All candidates regardless of party went on the ballot. If no candidate received 50% plus one vote, a runoff election was held between the top two.

It could be done in rounds. Round one held in June, all presidential candidates on the ballot, major parties, third parties, independents which could mean 50 or so candidates. Vote for one. The top 5 go on to round two to be held in August to narrow it down to two with the final in November as we have now. There are countries that do it this way. Just a suggestion.
 
Simpletruther said:
You are confusing masses of people with yourself, a total of one vote.

My OP is demonstratably true. It’s just math.
Click to expand...

The math will also demonstrate that as fewer and fewer people vote, YOUR vote will count more. The reason a certain party likes to suppress voter turnout. And why Russia spent such effort to suppress turnout.
 
JMR said:
The math will also demonstrate that as fewer and fewer people vote, YOUR vote will count more. The reason a certain party likes to suppress voter turnout. And why Russia spent such effort to suppress turnout.
Click to expand...
No, it wouldn’t make my vote count more. It would only increase the small posibikity that my vote would count any
At all (in the sense of effecting the outcome).

And the lower and lower the total vote count drops, it might eventually make the possibility high enough to think about. But on a nationwide election, not likely. We are still talking 10s of millions, even with a big drop.
 

In other words you ignore the reality of the math, because YOU feel YOUR vote won't be the decider. Do you not see yourself as part of any group?
 
JMR said:
In other words you ignore the reality of the math, because YOU feel YOUR vote won't be the decider. Do you not see yourself as part of any group?
Click to expand...
No,
I am accepting the math. The math says my vote will not make a difference in the outcome, to an incredibly high probability.

Whether I am part of a group or not doesn’t change that.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Menu
Log in
Register
Cookies are required to use this site. You must accept them to continue using the site. Learn more…