You may not like Trump personally, but look what he has done for the economy

[Exquisitor]

Just wait for the unveiling of Mount Trumpmore™®! Borught to you by the color Orange™ and Alternafacts™

And the people will cheer! (Yes all of us, you included, as soon it will be the law!). Plus your Social Security will be diverted to fund the project. You will be required to thank Trump® for allowing you to help bear the cost of this necessary tribute to his Orange™ excellence.

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A desk clock, Chintzy though, no numbers for the dial, only sixty dots.

 

[OpportunityCost]

By that reasoning, no comparison can ever be made because no two circumstances are ever identical. Regardless of whether you like the method or not, saying that comparing GDP growth at the beginning of a presidency with GDP growth at the end of a presidency is cherry-picking is disingenuous.

Also, it is beside the point. Here is what Trump had to say about GDP growth in the debates, from his own mouth.

You tell me. Did he do the things he promised in his job interview? Have we seen the 5% or 6% GDP growth that he said we would? Have we even seen the 4% GDP growth that he said was too low? Has there even been a single year of his presidency that GDP growth was as high as it was in 2015 under Obama?

What about the national debt? Here are the campaign promises, from his own mouth.

Did he make good on those? Was it easy paying down the national debt? Is it halfway gone yet? Was there even a single year that the national debt didn't go up? Better yet, was there ever a president who increased the national debt as much in a single term as President Trump has?

This isn't cherry picked from some bit by John Oliver. These are fundamental campaign promises from the national debates and interviews with Bill O'Reilly.

President Trump fundamentally failed to meet the promises he made regarding the economy.

LOL, yes, Obama increased the national debt as much. See, your so called facts are agenda driven not truth driven. Did he make good on his promises? No. Did he make every effort to do so? Yes. So after we have a 32% growth quarter, are you going to admit he made an effort or are you still going to be campaigning for Biden?

Secondly when an economy takes a downturn, growth is expected to be higher than 4%, economic forecasts predict as much in almost every circumstance. Obama managed to strangle the recovery in its initial phases.

 

[Exquisitor]

LOL, yes, Obama increased the national debt as much. See, your so called facts are agenda driven not truth driven. Did he make good on his promises? No. Did he make every effort to do so? Yes. So after we have a 32% growth quarter, are you going to admit he made an effort or are you still going to be campaigning for Biden?

Secondly when an economy takes a downturn, growth is expected to be higher than 4%, economic forecasts predict as much in almost every circumstance. Obama managed to strangle the recovery in its initial phases.

The recovery was clearly strangled by the Republicans, although you are correct, this is Obama's responsibility.

Do you know what he did? He reached out to the Republicans who were filibustering him and gave them time, energy and legitimacy which they used to defeat him in the midterms.

Do you know what else? If we had spent a little more in the beginning instead of running around crying, "Failed Stimulus!" 2016 would have been booming.

Obama delivered growing economy and reduced deficit.

 

[AConcernedCitizen]

LOL, yes, Obama increased the national debt as much. See, your so called facts are agenda driven not truth driven.

You are misinformed.

National Debt when Obama took office: $10.6 Trillion
National Debt at the end of Obama's first term: $16.3 Trillion
That is an increase of $5.7 Trillion in his first term.
At the end of Obama's presidency, it was $19.9 Trillion, which means it increased $3.6 Trillion in his second term.

By the end of July, the National debt was $26.5 Trillion.
This means that Trump added a record-breaking $6.6 Trillion to the national debt in less than a single term.

Did he make good on his promises? No.

Thank you for acknowledging the truth.

Did he make every effort to do so? Yes.

Great. Send him home with a participation trophy. Give him a safe space to talk about his feelings regarding how hard he tried and how mean everyone was. The road to financial ruin is paved with "every effort to do so."

So after we have a 32% growth quarter, are you going to admit he made an effort or are you still going to be campaigning for Biden?

I don't base my political decisions on the growth of a single quarter. If he reduces the national debt by half, brings the overall 2020 GDP growth up to 5%, creates a trade surplus for 2020, and brings unemployment down below 4.7%, I will acknowledge that he met his economic campaign promises.

There are plenty of other issues not related to the economy that concern me as well, such as his attitude toward the sacrifices made by members of the armed forces. That is a topic for another thread however.

 

[Mycroft]

GDP growth 2016: 1.7%
GDP growth today: -3.8% (note the negative sign)

The unemployment rate 2016: 4.7%
The unemployment rate today: 8.4%

Budget Deficit 2016: $587 Billion
Budget Deficit today: $3,300 Billion

National Debt 2016: $19 Trillion
National Debt today: $26 Trillion

Annual Trade Deficit 2016: $502.3 Billion
Annual Trade Deficit today: $616.8 Billion

The economy was empirically better off when Joe Biden was in the White House.

Typical Trump hater nonsense.

You always have to pretend not to know things...like that itty-bitty thing called COVID-19.

(I seriously miss my :doh: smiley.)

 

[OpportunityCost]

You are misinformed.

National Debt when Obama took office: $10.6 Trillion
National Debt at the end of Obama's first term: $16.3 Trillion
That is an increase of $5.7 Trillion in his first term.
At the end of Obama's presidency, it was $19.9 Trillion, which means it increased $3.6 Trillion in his second term.

By the end of July, the National debt was $26.5 Trillion.
This means that Trump added a record-breaking $6.6 Trillion to the national debt in less than a single term.



Thank you for acknowledging the truth.



Great. Send him home with a participation trophy. Give him a safe space to talk about his feelings regarding how hard he tried and how mean everyone was. The road to financial ruin is paved with "every effort to do so."



I don't base my political decisions on the growth of a single quarter. If he reduces the national debt by half, brings the overall 2020 GDP growth up to 5%, creates a trade surplus for 2020, and brings unemployment down below 4.7%, I will acknowledge that he met his economic campaign promises.

There are plenty of other issues not related to the economy that concern me as well, such as his attitude toward the sacrifices made by members of the armed forces. That is a topic for another thread however.

Ignoring Covid isn't a convincing argument. Before Covid, debt numbers were under $1T/year or less than that of Obama. You want to set economic goals? Run for President, your bullshit posts are nothing but twisting numbers to make Trump look worse and Obama look better when that is not the case.

 

[OpportunityCost]

The recovery was clearly strangled by the Republicans, although you are correct, this is Obama's responsibility.

Do you know what he did? He reached out to the Republicans who were filibustering him and gave them time, energy and legitimacy which they used to defeat him in the midterms.

Do you know what else? If we had spent a little more in the beginning instead of running around crying, "Failed Stimulus!" 2016 would have been booming.

Obama delivered growing economy and reduced deficit.

Its easy to reduce the deficit when you balloon it in your first year in office. To actually reduce the deficit to the numbers under Bush? He wasn't even close. Obama's economic promises from the stimulus package were worse than doing nothing at all. That's right, we could have done nothing at all and seen better numbers in unemployment.

Legitimacy is getting elected. The president wanted to be able to continue to pass bills, while continuing to poison the conversation with bullshit like back of the bus and into the ditch and elections have consequences. Reap what you sow.

 

[Oborosen]

Its easy to reduce the deficit when you balloon it in your first year in office. To actually reduce the deficit to the numbers under Bush? He wasn't even close. Obama's economic promises from the stimulus package were worse than doing nothing at all. That's right, we could have done nothing at all and seen better numbers in unemployment.

Legitimacy is getting elected. The president wanted to be able to continue to pass bills, while continuing to poison the conversation with bullshit like back of the bus and into the ditch and elections have consequences. Reap what you sow.

Obama basically maxed out his country's credit twice over in his first term. Then only did it once in his second.. and these people somehow think that he was being smart.

 

[rickc]

Anyone who believes trump was good for the economy is only listening to right wing commentators.

The facts say otherwise

Now he was/is good for the wealthy. Tax cuts and deregulation. Are ever increasing deficits and degradation of our environment good for America?

 

[Utility Man]

 

[AConcernedCitizen]

Typical Trump hater nonsense.

You always have to pretend not to know things...like that itty-bitty thing called COVID-19.

(I seriously miss my :doh: smiley.)

“We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China, and we have it under control. It’s — going to be just fine.” -President Trump regarding COVID-19 Jan 22, 2020

You want to give him a pass on wrecking the economy because of one person coming in from China that he had totally under control back in January? Is your contention that when he made all his campaign promises to rebuild the American economy, he didn't know there would be some challenges to face along the way?

His mismanagement of COVID-19, and willfully lying to the American people about it downplaying it so as not to cause a panic, is a primary contributor not only to the over 200,000 deaths and nearly 7 million infected, but to the economic impact it has had.

Regardless, his economic Failures aren't all COVID related.

He promised not only to reduce the trade deficit, but to create a trade surplus. Instead he increased the trade deficit every single year like clockwork. That is a consistent failure prior to COVID.

Trade Deficit 2016: $502.3 Billion
Trade Deficit 2017: $568.4 Billion
Trade Deficit 2018: $891.3 Billion
Trade Deficit 2019: $616.8 Billion


Same thing with budget deficits. He promised to reduce them. Instead he increased them every single year like clockwork. That is a consistent failure prior to COVID.

Budget Deficit 2016: $587 Billion
Budget Deficit 2017: $665 Billion
Budget Deficit 2018: $779 billion
Budget Deficit 2019: $984 billion


Same with the National Debt. He promised to reduce it. Instead he increased it every single year like clockwork. That is a consistent failure prior to COVID.

National Debt 2016: 19.9 Trillion
National Debt 2017: 20.2 Trillion
National Debt 2018: 21.5 Trillion
National Debt 2019: 22.7 Trillion

 

[AConcernedCitizen]

Obama basically maxed out his country's credit twice over in his first term. Then only did it once in his second.. and these people somehow think that he was being smart.

Reminiscing about the good ol' days is great and all, but Obama is not the President. The question at hand is whether Trump brought GDP growth up to 5% like he said he would, whether he has reduced the national debt like he said he would, and whether he has turned our trade deficits into a trade surplus like he said he would.

Did he make good on those promises? Is the national debt lower than it was when he took office? Has the budget been balanced year after year since he took office? Do we have a trade surplus now?

 

[Mycroft]

You want to give him a pass on wrecking the economy because of one person coming in from China that he had totally under control back in January? Is your contention that when he made all his campaign promises to rebuild the American economy, he didn't know there would be some challenges to face along the way?

And you continue to pretend not to know things.

That's okay. I won't play your game. I won't present the things that you are pretending not to know. All you'll do is spout more nonsense...while continuing to pretend.

You are dismissed.

 

[Oborosen]

Reminiscing about the good ol' days is great and all, but Obama is not the President. The question at hand is whether Trump brought GDP growth up to 5% like he said he would, whether he has reduced the national debt like he said he would, and whether he has turned our trade deficits into a trade surplus like he said he would.

Did he make good on those promises? Is the national debt lower than it was when he took office? Has the budget been balanced year after year since he took office? Do we have a trade surplus now?

If you think extrajudicial executions of children, qualifies as "the good ol' days". Then I find your distinction of such a time, highly suspect.
As for Trump, he can do just what any other presidential candidate does and make the necessary bets/promises needed. To help himself win the office and secure his seat.
And just as with his predecessors, all of this doesn't fully depend on him either.

 

[Oborosen]

Once again. You're lack of integrity is getting in the way of actually having a direct point.

Much of these things shown in the image. Are the result of actions taken at the state level and not at the federal level.

So this cute little meme here, is nothing more than a plastered lie that can't effectively sell itself.

 

[AConcernedCitizen]

And you continue to pretend not to know things.

That's okay. I won't play your game. I won't present the things that you are pretending not to know. All you'll do is spout more nonsense...while continuing to pretend.

You are dismissed.

I presented the figures for the national debt, budget deficits and trade deficits during Trumps presidency prior to COVID-19. You have not contested that Trump raised the national debt every single year, increased budget deficits every single year, and increased trade deficits every single year. This tells me that you know that I am correct that Trump has not improved our economic situation.

I don't need you to acknowledge these things to me. I understand that politics is like a sporting event where you want the people in the red jerseys to beat the people in the blue jerseys, so you make a dismissive post that does not address these points instead. If you don't acknowledge to yourself that Trump has not improved our economic situation in the privacy of your own mind though, you are doing yourself a disservice.

 

[AConcernedCitizen]

As for Trump, he can do just what any other presidential candidate does and make the necessary bets/promises needed. To help himself win the office and secure his seat.

I don't disagree. Trump makes whatever promises he thinks will win the votes he needs. Some folks don't care that those promises are empty. Other folks do.

 

[Oborosen]

I don't disagree. Trump makes whatever promises he thinks will win the votes he needs. Some folks don't care that those promises are empty. Other folks do.

Much as I don't care for Biden's own empty promises. I'm more interested in getting us out of the middle east and restoring law & order to our own streets.

 

[AConcernedCitizen]

Much as I don't care for Biden's own empty promises. I'm more interested in getting us out of the middle east and restoring law & order to our own streets.

Sounds like a topic for another thread. The purpose here is to discuss what President Trump has done for the economy.

The national debt is larger, trade deficits are higher, our GDP is shrinking, he didn't create more jobs like he said he would, and the people who believed his empty campaign promises are losers and suckers.

It seems that we don't have any fundamental disagreement on these points, so I don't know that we have anything else to discuss. Perhaps I shall see you around on a thread about Biden, or the middle-east, or law and order. Until then, thanks for the stimulating debate.

 

[PNW Guy]

Do you believe that your post contributes anything of value to this discussion? Many of us have serious concerns about the effect of the current administration on our country. Purile taunts about the President's physical appearance and baseless, hyperbolic strawman arguments are an unecessary and damaging distraction.

If you don't understand that this game is rigged, and there's a 90% or better chance of Trump® successfully stealing a second term, then I suppose I can't help you, but that's the sad reality we're facing all the same....

 

[AConcernedCitizen]

If you don't understand that this game is rigged, and there's a 90% or better chance of Trump® successfully stealing a second term, then I suppose I can't help you, but that's the sad reality we're facing all the same....

That sounds like a topic for another thread. This thread is about President Trump's failure to improve the US economy.

When you start your thread about election fraud or voter suppression, or whatever it is you mean about the game being rigged, I would recommend that you rephrase it in a way that is more coherent, and perhaps include some supporting data.

 

[Oborosen]

Sounds like a topic for another thread. The purpose here is to discuss what President Trump has done for the economy.

The national debt is larger, trade deficits are higher, our GDP is shrinking, he didn't create more jobs like he said he would, and the people who believed his empty campaign promises are losers and suckers.

It seems that we don't have any fundamental disagreement on these points, so I don't know that we have anything else to discuss. Perhaps I shall see you around on a thread about Biden, or the middle-east, or law and order. Until then, thanks for the stimulating debate.

No, you're simply attempting to throw all of this on the back of what the pandemic accounted for. And act as though Trump has all of the blame for practically everything that happened.

It's intellectually lazy and highly dishonest. But I can see that this is how many, if not all of the left has been acting for much of this same time.
We had record lows in unemployment before the pandemic and our economy was booming as well. So your own premise is somehow ignoring cause, while showering all of it's affects on one man's shoulders.

 

[AConcernedCitizen]

No, you're simply attempting to throw all of this on the back of what the pandemic accounted for. And act as though Trump has all of the blame for practically everything that happened.

That isn't true. I have presented data from before the pandemic multiple times now. The budget deficit was higher every single year even before the pandemic. Our trade deficit was higher every single year even before the pandemic. Our national debt was higher every single year, even before the pandemic.

It's intellectually lazy and highly dishonest. But I can see that this is how many, if not all of the left has been acting for much of this same time.

Your ad hominem deflection is quite transparent. Pretending that I am "simply attempting to throw all of this on the back of what the pandemic accounted for" when I have addressed this critique multiple times with data from before the pandemic is intellectually lazy and highly dishonest. Tell me which year during Trump's presidency he actually decreased the national debt. Tell me which year during Trump's presidency we had a trade deficit lower than when he took office. I consistently redirect to the data, while you seek refuge in ad hominem accusations of laziness and dishonesty.

We had record lows in unemployment before the pandemic...

That is demonstrably false. The record for low unemployment was 1.2% in 1944.

Further, here is how President Trump (who campaigned on bringing back American jobs) stacked up before the pandemic.

Job Creation per Month 2016: 195,000
Job Creation per Month 2017: 176,000
Job Creation per Month 2018: 193,000
Job Creation per Month 2019: 178,000

While the unemployment rate did drop initially during Trump's Presidency, it clearly wasn't because of increased job creation as he claimed. In fact, as you can see above, job creation actually slowed down after he took office. Unemployment rates were already dropping and merely continued their trajectory after Trump took office. Now of course, thanks to the President's "A+" handling of the pandemic, unemployment rates are back up to 8.4%

...and our economy was booming as well.

Our national debt was higher than when Trump took office. Our budget deficits were higher than when Trump took office. Our trade deficits were higher than when Trump took office. Our economy wasn't "booming."

So your own premise is somehow ignoring cause, while showering all of it's affects on one man's shoulders.

If the snake oil says "Guaranteed to Cure Cancer" on the label, then it is fair to complain when the cancer persits after taking it. A snake oil salesman may retort that "There are many factors that lead to cancer and to cancer remission. It isn't fair to put all of this on one bottle of urine snake oil," but many of us would regard that as a disingenuous defense.

 

[Helix]

He was lucky to inherit a good economy. His predecessor inherited the wrecked Bush economy. Unfortunately, he was unable to properly handle a pandemic, so the next president will have to deal with his economy.

 

[Oborosen]

That isn't true. I have presented data from before the pandemic multiple times now. The budget deficit was higher every single year even before the pandemic. Our trade deficit was higher every single year even before the pandemic. Our national debt was higher every single year, even before the pandemic.

Your ad hominem deflection is quite transparent. Pretending that I am "simply attempting to throw all of this on the back of what the pandemic accounted for" when I have addressed this critique multiple times with data from before the pandemic is intellectually lazy and highly dishonest. Tell me which year during Trump's presidency he actually decreased the national debt. Tell me which year during Trump's presidency we had a trade deficit lower than when he took office. I consistently redirect to the data, while you seek refuge in ad hominem accusations of laziness and dishonesty.



That is demonstrably false. The record for low unemployment was 1.2% in 1944.

Further, here is how President Trump (who campaigned on bringing back American jobs) stacked up before the pandemic.

Job Creation per Month 2016: 195,000
Job Creation per Month 2017: 176,000
Job Creation per Month 2018: 193,000
Job Creation per Month 2019: 178,000

While the unemployment rate did drop initially during Trump's Presidency, it clearly wasn't because of increased job creation as he claimed. In fact, as you can see above, job creation actually slowed down after he took office. Unemployment rates were already dropping and merely continued their trajectory after Trump took office. Now of course, thanks to the President's "A+" handling of the pandemic, unemployment rates are back up to 8.4%



Our national debt was higher than when Trump took office. Our budget deficits were higher than when Trump took office. Our trade deficits were higher than when Trump took office. Our economy wasn't "booming."



If the snake oil says "Guaranteed to Cure Cancer" on the label, then it is fair to complain when the cancer persits after taking it. A snake oil salesman may retort that "There are many factors that lead to cancer and to cancer remission. It isn't fair to put all of this on one bottle of urine snake oil," but many of us would regard that as a disingenuous defense.

So you still insist on just throwing out propaganda and pretending not to see an issue here?

I also did not state that he broke the record for unemployment, but that is neither here nor there.