You may not like Trump personally, but look what he has done for the economy

[AConcernedCitizen]

So you still insist on just throwing out propaganda and pretending not to see an issue here?

Calling facts that you don't like 'propaganda' does not make it so.

These are the facts. The budget deficit was higher every single year even before the pandemic. Our trade deficit was higher every single year even before the pandemic. Our national debt was higher every single year, even before the pandemic.

These are the facts. Trump promised to balance the budget. He failed, even before the pandemic. He promised to turn the trade deficit into a trade surplus. He failed, even before the pandemic. He promised to reduce the national debt. He failed, even before the pandemic.

To top it all off, after all these failures to follow through on his campaign promises, he gives himself an "A+" for the "tremendous job" he's done.

Attempting to dismiss facts by calling them propaganda is the mark of someone who is unable to dispute them.

 

[vegas giants]

So you still insist on just throwing out propaganda and pretending not to see an issue here?

I also did not state that he broke the record for unemployment, but that is neither here nor there.

It is if you are unemployed

 

[SmartCat]

I just heard on National Public Radio that a survey indicates that half of the U.S. population is having trouble paying for basic necessities.

 

[Slavister]

I just heard on National Public Radio that a survey indicates that half of the U.S. population is having trouble paying for basic necessities.

Is it the same half that think Trump is great on economy?

 

[Exquisitor]

Its easy to reduce the deficit when you balloon it in your first year in office. To actually reduce the deficit to the numbers under Bush? He wasn't even close. Obama's economic promises from the stimulus package were worse than doing nothing at all. That's right, we could have done nothing at all and seen better numbers in unemployment.

Legitimacy is getting elected. The president wanted to be able to continue to pass bills, while continuing to poison the conversation with bullshit like back of the bus and into the ditch and elections have consequences. Reap what you sow.

You're clearly incorrect, without the little stimulus the Reprobates allowed it would have been a great depression.

A stitch in time saves nine, so if there had been a little more stimulus, education spending, minimum wage and highways bill things would have taken off.

I guess I can't blame the Reprobates, because they would have been shut out, but when they pull the same tax cut as GWB to rev the engine and their Fuhrer carries on about how great and important is the way he destroys Obama I can't sit tight.

 

[noonereal]

Let me ask you one question, what is going on right now in 2020, that wasn't happening in 2016?

Trump has thrown the country in the shitter just like he did his casinos.

 

[Jean-s]

Is it the same half that think Trump is great on economy?

... double post

 

[MTAtech]

Your first post and you had to go full ignorant?

Let me ask you one question, what is going on right now in 2020, that wasn't happening in 2016? Cmon now...answer slowly so you don't hurt yourself

Even if you measure performance pre-pandemic, the Trump numbers do not show that Trump took a bad economy and achieved miracles (see graphics below.) The numbers are essentially the same from Obama to Trump. In 2017, the GOP passed a tax-cut that ballooned the deficit to a trillion per year. These same people, who during Obama were deficit hawks, couldn't care less about deficits. Moreover, McConnell stated that if the the Republicans didn't lose the House they'd cut Social Security and Medicare to make up for the loss from the tax-cut.

 

[Jean-s]

I just heard on National Public Radio that a survey indicates that half of the U.S. population is having trouble paying for basic necessities.

How can this be in such a wealthy country?

 

[George50]

Right off the bat and it's easy to tell that you can't even make a legitimate argument to save your life.

That’s the best you can do when presented with a list of facts?


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[Cardinal]

Your first post and you had to go full ignorant?

Let me ask you one question, what is going on right now in 2020, that wasn't happening in 2016? Cmon now...answer slowly so you don't hurt yourself

Ooh ooh ooh, pick me!

Okay, the difference is that Trump deliberately ignored a pandemic, and that resulted in our economy cratering.

 

[George50]

How many other forums are you posting this propaganda on?

View attachment 67296113

What’s up with you people who see facts as propaganda and QAnon propaganda as facts?


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[Mr Person]

Your first post and you had to go full ignorant?

Let me ask you one question, what is going on right now in 2020, that wasn't happening in 2016? Cmon now...answer slowly so you don't hurt yourself

The last two Democrat presidents passed on a great economy. The last GOP president passed on a wrecked economy and so will this one. In each GOP case, the wrecked economy was directly tied to policies furthered by the president. In Bush's case, deregulation of financial instruments. In Trump's, lying/denying about COVID, deliberately killing a mass testing plan.

It doesn't really matter if someone wants to argue about whether the Dem presidents personally created the 'great' economy, since the bottom line is they didn't break it via their policies like the GOP presidents did.



But we know the drill:

If a thing is bad, it's the Dem's fault. And if a thing is good, it's to the GOP's credit. No matter what the thing is and why it happened.

 

[George50]

LOL, sure. A wonderfully cherry picked comparison. I was born in the morning, but it wasn't this morning.

So GDP growth in Obama’s second term was 2.4%, Trump pre pandemic was 2.5%. Essentially the same. Job creation in Trump’s pre pandemic years was slower than during Obama’s second term. Those are the two most important measures. What cherries would you pick to show Trump’s amazing economy?

As far as Trump’s pandemic response goes we are the 206th worst as measured by deaths per million population out of 215 countries that are tracked on worldometer. Calling that a failure is generous.


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[TomFitz]

GDP growth 2016: 1.7%
GDP growth today: -3.8% (note the negative sign)

The unemployment rate 2016: 4.7%
The unemployment rate today: 8.4%

Budget Deficit 2016: $587 Billion
Budget Deficit today: $3,300 Billion

National Debt 2016: $19 Trillion
National Debt today: $26 Trillion

Annual Trade Deficit 2016: $502.3 Billion
Annual Trade Deficit today: $616.8 Billion

The economy was empirically better off when Joe Biden was in the White House.

I guess that puts pay to the Trump campaign claims!

Never mind that Trump inherited the economy he bragged about.

The only thing he changes was the deficit exploding tax cut for Wall Street.

That did not produce any significant change in economic growth.

And Trump’s mismanagement of the Corona virus insures that the recovery will be slower and more painful than it would have been otherwise. The economies of all the other first world countries, which never experience either the level of loss or unemployment that the US has, is testament to that.

 

[TomFitz]

No, I agree, Trump is serving many purposes and breaking convention, so I like the guy, but he made one mistake and that was his tax break so any forward progress is only because of a Trillion dollars a year on the credit card.

And it wasn't forward progress, revenue was not keeping up with deficit.

Besides, he did not build upon his predecessor and thus precipitated a boarder crisis.

Notwithstanding, the way we were treated with our first black President leaves me no choice, but to oppose him every way I can and that meant impeachment, otherwise, without the tax break there would have been no impeachment.

This is another Trumpster cop out.

Out of one side of your mouth, you acknowledge that Trump’s biggest (and only) claim to success isn’t really a success at all.

Furthermore, you claim that Trump’s one and only legislative accomplishment, the deficit exploding tax cut, was a mistake.

Then you turn right around, toss all that aside and announce that you’re going to vote for him anyway, because of unspecified treatment by (your words) ”our first black president”.

You took pains not to mention what this poor treatment was.

You took pains to make an issue of his race.

And you ignored the fact that he is not on the ballot.

In point of fact, since Obama is not on the ballot, what happened four to. twelve years ago should not be relevant at all to the curent election.

And yet, there you are, “first black president”, and all.

The last bit, about impeachment, makes no sense at all. It’s totally incoherent.

But, never mind. The core message came through loud and clear.

 

[Aletheia]

Even if you measure performance pre-pandemic, the Trump numbers do not show that Trump took a bad economy and achieved miracles (see graphics below.) The numbers are essentially the same from Obama to Trump. In 2017, the GOP passed a tax-cut that ballooned the deficit to a trillion per year. These same people, who during Obama were deficit hawks, couldn't care less about deficits. Moreover, McConnell stated that if the the Republicans didn't lose the House they'd cut Social Security and Medicare to make up for the loss from the tax-cut.

View attachment 67296179View attachment 67296180

Even that often repeated quote about blacks have best employment numbers ever, is a farce. Those numbers are reversionary, and Obama brought them down significantly from the peak (unemployment) numbers that he inherited - that was a significant accomplishment. The changes Trump brought are just a small continuation of the momentum of those improvements. Funny how the right loves to use absolute numbers, when they are misleading and irrelevant, but when it comes to covid-19, they no longer want to use absolute numbers as they are supposedly irrelevant. Covid-19 cases and deaths are the one true case where Trump could boast about having the greatest numbers over every one in the universe, and actually be factual.

On top of that, the 2.2 million deaths estimate was debunked a long, long time ago -- and laughed at by the right. Yet, they continue to argue to this day that Trump would have had 2.2 million deaths had he not intervened. Someone please let him know he's regurgitating false data.

 

[Luce]

Your first post and you had to go full ignorant?

Let me ask you one question, what is going on right now in 2020, that wasn't happening in 2016? Cmon now...answer slowly so you don't hurt yourself

What I love is that the Trump economy was so fragile that it collapsed over "something that is basically the flu" as has been described to me by people on the right.

 

[TomFitz]

That isn't true. I have presented data from before the pandemic multiple times now. The budget deficit was higher every single year even before the pandemic. Our trade deficit was higher every single year even before the pandemic. Our national debt was higher every single year, even before the pandemic.



Your ad hominem deflection is quite transparent. Pretending that I am "simply attempting to throw all of this on the back of what the pandemic accounted for" when I have addressed this critique multiple times with data from before the pandemic is intellectually lazy and highly dishonest. Tell me which year during Trump's presidency he actually decreased the national debt. Tell me which year during Trump's presidency we had a trade deficit lower than when he took office. I consistently redirect to the data, while you seek refuge in ad hominem accusations of laziness and dishonesty.



That is demonstrably false. The record for low unemployment was 1.2% in 1944.

Further, here is how President Trump (who campaigned on bringing back American jobs) stacked up before the pandemic.

Job Creation per Month 2016: 195,000
Job Creation per Month 2017: 176,000
Job Creation per Month 2018: 193,000
Job Creation per Month 2019: 178,000

While the unemployment rate did drop initially during Trump's Presidency, it clearly wasn't because of increased job creation as he claimed. In fact, as you can see above, job creation actually slowed down after he took office. Unemployment rates were already dropping and merely continued their trajectory after Trump took office. Now of course, thanks to the President's "A+" handling of the pandemic, unemployment rates are back up to 8.4%



Our national debt was higher than when Trump took office. Our budget deficits were higher than when Trump took office. Our trade deficits were higher than when Trump took office. Our economy wasn't "booming."



If the snake oil says "Guaranteed to Cure Cancer" on the label, then it is fair to complain when the cancer persits after taking it. A snake oil salesman may retort that "There are many factors that lead to cancer and to cancer remission. It isn't fair to put all of this on one bottle of urine snake oil," but many of us would regard that as a disingenuous defense.

You’re wasting your time. Facts don’t matter to the Trump crowd. In fact, as you can see, they’re downright hostile to them!

 

[Bullseye]

So GDP growth in Obama’s second term was 2.4%, Trump pre pandemic was 2.5%. Essentially the same. Job creation in Trump’s pre pandemic years was slower than during Obama’s second term. Those are the two most important measures. What cherries would you pick to show Trump’s amazing economy?

As far as Trump’s pandemic response goes we are the 206th worst as measured by deaths per million population out of 215 countries that are tracked on worldometer. Calling that a failure is generous.


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Still cherry picking - Trump didn't inherit the economy of Obama's entire second term - he inherited the economy as it stood on January 20, 2017 - GDP growth of 1.6%for the previous year. The DJIA rose as much from election day to inauguration day - a little over two months as it had from January 1, 2016 to election day. Trump scored record low Unemployment rates, including for women, minorities and teens. Mean Household income rose several thousand dollars over what he inherited from Obama.

Even in this disastrous year Trump Unemployment rate is lower than Obama had at any time during his first term. Same for payroll unemployment.

From BLS:

 

[Bullseye]

What’s up with you people who see facts as propaganda and QAnon propaganda as facts?


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What's up with you people that spew goofy-ass "QAnon" propaganda every time you're challenged. If that's the best you got, you're in deep too too.

 

[Mr Person]

Still cherry picking - Trump didn't inherit the economy of Obama's entire second term - he inherited the economy as it stood on January 20, 2017 - GDP growth of 1.6%for the previous year. The DJIA rose as much from election day to inauguration day - a little over two months as it had from January 1, 2016 to election day. Trump scored record low Unemployment rates, including for women, minorities and teens. Mean Household income rose several thousand dollars over what he inherited from Obama.

Even in this disastrous year Trump Unemployment rate is lower than Obama had at any time during his first term. Same for payroll unemployment.

From BLS:

lol, talk about cherry picking.

Bush handed Obama a completely destroyed economy. Obama handed Trump the best economy ever. You cherry pick with "first term" to run away from that. And now look where we are.

What's up with you people that spew goofy-ass "QAnon" propaganda every time you're challenged. If that's the best you got, you're in deep too too.

Pssssst: QAnon is a Trumpist thing.

 

[MrPeanut]

It was easy to ride high off of the trends he inherited, but covid definitely threw a wrench into everything.

 

[Bullseye]

lol, talk about cherry picking.

Bush handed Obama a completely destroyed economy. Obama handed Trump the best economy ever. You cherry pick with "first term" to run away from that. And now look where we are.





Pssssst: QAnon is a Trumpist thing.

Uh, no. Obama himself, said the slow growth, sluggish economy was the "new normal". And he was right for the length of his term. The economy he handed Trump was wheezing and gasping along - the poorest post-recession recovery since WW II. As I mentioned above as soon as economic leaders saw that Trump had one the economy picked up and despite COVID is still looking better than Obama's first term. For instance the stock market is still almost 50% higher than the day Trump was elected.

 

[MrPeanut]

Uh, no. Obama himself, said the slow growth, sluggish economy was the "new normal". And he was right for the length of his term. The economy he handed Trump was wheezing and gasping along - the poorest post-recession recovery since WW II. As I mentioned above as soon as economic leaders saw that Trump had one the economy picked up and despite COVID is still looking better than Obama's first term. For instance the stock market is still almost 50% higher than the day Trump was elected.

What about something other than the stock market?