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You call this Democracy!

Billo_Really

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Apparently, Bush fixes elections in Iraq too!

I don't see how we can bring democracy to the ME when it is virtually non-existant in our own country. We have an oligarchy! Iraq has a dictator by proxy.
 
Billo_Really said:
Apparently, Bush fixes elections in Iraq too!

I don't see how we can bring democracy to the ME when it is virtually non-existant in our own country. We have an oligarchy! Iraq has a dictator by proxy.
I respectfully disagree. No I don't see this as non-democratic. Instead I see this for the preservation of democracy within Iraq. The religious sectarian sector is much too popular in many of those areas and would likely create a sectarian government. It's like a teenager filled with rage and horomones that has little knowledge of what s/he's actually doing merely acting on impulse. The environment within Iraq currently I do not think is mature enough without "parenting". It's in the best interest of the US to have a secular and truly democratic government in Iraq now then it would be for an Iran 2.0 to form, which is exactly what would happen if those elections were allowed to proceed without any intervention for now.

So surprisingly, yes, I'm actually defending the Bush admin's policy on this issue.
As for Florida.... well that's an entirely different story that I'd rather not get drawn into.
 
Originally posted by jfuh:
The religious sectarian sector is much too popular in many of those areas and would likely create a sectarian government.
Are you talking about the "red states" or just Christian Republicans in general?
 
Billo_Really said:
Are you talking about the "red states" or just Christian Republicans in general?
:lamo, oh how I wish it were applicable to those.
 
Originally posted by jfuh:
oh how I wish it were applicable to those.
We can discuss the difference between Islamic Mullah's and Christian Mullah's on another thread. The point I'm trying to make with this one is that if the article I posted is true, then democracy is the last thing their getting over there. You can't have a democracy without fair elections and a well informed republic. This article alleges that fairness in these elections is no where to be found. Were doing what the Soviets did in Kabul 25 years ago. Bush even publically stated his displeasure for the former Prime Minister front runner in Iraq's government. What the hell is it any of that is his business?

The biggest reason I am against this whole invasion is the basic premise that no one government has the right to tell a sovereign nation what to do within their own borders without the support of the world community. And Bush, as I'm sure you know, shunned that world community by attacking. Funny, now with the situation with Iran, he is throwing the "world community" angle in the face of the Iranians. Well, why should they care if he didn't?

Finally, we need to pay more attention on our system of government before we start showing others how it is done. Were not a good example at the moment. Do Americans just not care to participate in the political process? Or are we just deliberately ignorant because the alternative is just too painful to deal with?
 
Humans are an interesting speices. We'll fight and die for what we don't have, but completely ignore what we do have. The grass is always greener on the other side.
It's like the dog crossing the bridge with the bone in his mouth. Looks over and oh wow look there, another dog with a bone in the water. Barks at the "other" dog and looses its own bone.
We're in that same situation now. Barking at dictators while we're loosing our own democracy.
 
Billo said:
if the article I posted is true, then democracy is the last thing their getting over there.

Reading the article that you cited, I get the impression that the facts are most probably true, but the conclusions are faulty. Notice that the article you cited is a bit dated (the author cites a NYT article of Sep '04 as being "recent") and the events discussed in the article are all immediately following the defeat of the Iraqi military:


Like most of the events discussed in the article, this was in 2003, immediately following the crushing of the Iraqi Army. At that point in time, it is entirely logical for our military to approve of or 'hand-select' candidates for public office. MacArthur did the very same thing in Japan; the very same thing was done in Germany. Seems to me, that with the infrastructure in a shambles, it was both our and the Iraqi's best interest to have people in office with whom we believe we can work.

I haven't done any specific searching on the more recent elections, but my impression and my memory is that the candidates then were truly selected by the Iraqis. That is not to say that the US did not express preferences, and if we did, why not? Nonetheless, unless I have the wrong impression, the last elections were entirely an Iraqi affair.
 
I've never liked more posts from someone I have disagreed with more than yours.

Your comments are always welcome.
 
Originally posted by jfuh:
We're in that same situation now. Barking at dictators while we're loosing our own democracy.
Didn't I just say this to you on another thread? I must be losing my mind.
 
Billo_Really said:
Didn't I just say this to you on another thread? I must be losing my mind.
Dunno if you did or not. If you did just take it as my re-emphasising it.
 
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