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You believe Jesus was at least a man who did exist, right?

OscarLevant

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But, let's see. You do believe he was a real person, but there is no concrete evidence that he was a real person.

Now then, you believe he was a real person because the wake that was left in his name, well, that's such an abundance and thus overwhelming, though technically circumstantial evidence, one must conclude, therefore, he was real.

I would. Because of the gargantuan wake of Jesus, his legacy, I can see no other possible conclusion that he was a real man.


Now then, as for divinity, that's an article of faith, noting that this is not the point of this thread, so I dont want to comment on that.


The point is, if you have accepted the fact that a real person who was the ultimate cause of the movement called Christianity, whether he was divine, the Son Of God, not being the argument, how come, then.....

Why will you not accept the idea that Aliens have visited, and most likely contacted many, either voluntarily though most likely ( for most) involuntarily, on earth?

Again, we're not talking religion here, we're talking popularity. And no, I'm not suggesting that aliens, being as famous as Jesus ( they come close, though ) should necessarily be believed in, it's just that, given that you will accept the existence of Jesus, without concrete evidence, just for the abundant circumstantial evidence, and that there is abundant circumstantial evidence for aliens, ( though not impacting in any spiritual way, but that is not at debate ) why would you disbelieve in their having visited the earth ?


ps. please don't bug me about the run on sentence, just read it through and it does work.
 

First, it's important to have a common vocabulary. 'Belief' is accepting something as true without evidence that it is, in fact, true. If you do have proof, then it's 'knowledge', not belief.

Having established that, for any theory or argument, at some point we have to make assumptions, otherwise we're stuck in an infinite loop of regressive proofs-of-premise we can never satisfy. The trick is where to begin requiring evidence. There are different logical standards for accepting that someone merely existed, and accepting someone was some supernatural being. That many people were talking about a spcific person at the time establishes a logical base to accept, if one chooses, that Jesus existed as a reguler human being, with no further evidence needed. The more fantastic you want to present Jesus, the more concrete proof you need.

We don't know what Jesus said because Jesus left no writings of his own (that I know of). We only know what the scribes of Jesus's diciples wrote down at some point well after the crucifixion, and those writings were later heavily edited by the Coptic Church and King James.

We could 'believe' that Jesus merly existed, as a reguler person, maybe even as a wise person. However, if you want to start asserting things like he walked on water then you're going to need to detail exactly how he did it so that we can reproduce the act in controlled laboratory settings. Same for water-to-wine, you need to provide the exact process so that we can study it and reproduce it.

Even if you could provide all of that information, the best you can hope for is a scientific consensus that Jesus had a knowledge of technology ahead of the local culture. You will still not get an admission of divinity because that is a level of evidence you aren't capable of providing.
 
Historical Jesus wasn’t even named Jesus.
 

You missed the point of my thread entirely it's not about Jesus it's about aliens

In short if you believe Jesus existed as a man based not on absolute proof how can you say you don't believe in aliens, for there is an abundance of circumstantial evidence similar to that of Jesus.
 

In this mostly Christian country, the inhabitants have been conditioned to believe in Jesus, even as they have been discouraged from understanding our place in the universe. Brainwashing is what it is.
 

Suggest you look up the legend of spartacus. Also a figure who left a wake. Yet like jesus there is not one bit of convincing evidence that he ever existed. What's more there is no reason to assume he existed other than like jesus there is an abundance of stories about him. But there is also, like jesus, good reason to assume he did not.

Your only source for jesus comes from a book that tell fantasy stories that never really happened. So why would i assume that one story among many fantasies is true.
 
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Not quite. All we have of jesus is stories. Same as all we have of harry potter.

Where as aliens existing is backed by the fact that life exists on this planet so it is a fair enough assumption that life could live on other planets.

As for visiting this planet that is an added assumption on your part and does not reflect on the idea that aliens exist. If you wish to believe aliens have visited that is your problem just as a theists belief that jesus existed is theirs.
 

I don't relate Jesus to aliens in the first place for that to be a logical question. The existence of extraterrestrial intelligent life is a mathematical certainty while the existence of a supernatural human is not. The 2 topics are not related.
 
The fours Gospels were written between 60-95 years after his alleged existence. Back then, a generation was about 15 years, so 60-95 years is about 4-6 generations later.

4-6 generations is plenty of time for a story to get embellished, and for a legend to grow from little or nothing.

Therefore it is within the realm of possibility that Jesus didn't exist.
 
Wayne Jr said:
I don't relate Jesus to aliens in the first place for that to be a logical question. The existence of extraterrestrial intelligent life is a mathematical certainty while the existence of a supernatural human is not. The 2 topics are not related.
Click to expand...


I'm not in any way referring to a connection between the two, for now, anyway, I'm referring solely to the fact that many accept, at the minimum, the exsitence of Jesus, for whcih there is only an abundance of evidence, yet the same many reject the idea that aliens, though they accept they exist, they reject the idea that they have visited earth, yet there is an abundance of circumstantial evidence pointing to the fact that they have.

the point of this thread is that narrow, but very prominent, discrepancy.
 
WCH said:
FAITH tells me that Jesus is my Lord and Savior. But, if you want some historical references outside of the Holy Bible, see Islam.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_in_Islam
Click to expand...

If that is so for you, then this thread was not intended for you, only those who accept the existence of jesus as a man though there is no concrete evidence of his existence, only an abundance of circumstantial evidence, and I'm askiong why taht they reject the possibility of aliens visiting the earth where there is also an abundance of circumstantial evidence for their visitation.

The point is this thread is NOT religion.
 
WCH said:
As far as the Jesus being an extraterrestrial...
https://creation.com/was-jesus-an-alien
Click to expand...



There is a logical path pointing to the idea that Jesus was an alien/human hybrid on a mission to bring a new religion to a ever growing chaotic earth of humans. It would explain the "immaculate conception", and provide a logical basis for how , indeed, an immaculate conception is possible ( that the concept was not a myth, there was an alien induced immaculate conception -- as there is evidence for this in current times ). I suggest reading David Jacobs's book entitled "walking among us" ( it's not about jesus, but it will explain non coital pregnancies by aliens who are creating hybrids to populate the earth, snf this is going on, according to Jacobs. seems far fetched, until you read the book, it becomes more plausible for there are many details supporting it ).
 
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I accept that Jesus, at the minimum, was a man who at one time in our history, walked the earth. I also accept that aliens have, and are continuing to, visit this earth.

The evidence for both is circumstantial, but you are correct, there is, indeed, more physical evidence for alien visitation noting that there is no physical proof that Jesus actually walked the earth. That "physical evidence" which is mostly that of implants in human bodies for unsolved purposes, when subjected to lab test, revealed more questions than there are answers, that of complex structures, nano tubes, exotic materials not abundant on earth, and not likely to exist in your average shard that might get embedded in ones nose, behind one's eyes, in ear canals, in various parts of the body, as well as deeply embedded in the brain, etc. which are confounding scientists, such that, coupled with stories of alien abductions, operations performed on abductees describing these implantations, thousands of such stories which tell the same story over and over and over again in abductee after abductee, stories garnered under hypnosis using controlled procedures designed to winnow out natural human tendencies to embellish, suggeststhat it does seem, indeed, establish there is more evidence for aliens than there is for Christ.


are there fakers? IN this field, it's riddled with huckters. One must dig deep to separate the wheat from the chaff.
 
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zyzygy said:
Joshua Ben Joseph
Click to expand...

In Jewish tradition, yes, but this thread is discussing Jesus the man, not the Jewish Messiah which has yet to arrive.
 


If you do a deep study of zen, eastern philosophy, the tao te ching, etc., you can say the same of, for example, Lao Tsu.

If you read the Gnostic Gospel of Thomas, after having studied eastern philosophy, it's concepts, and the meanings thereof, one might see
a deep similarity between the 114 (direct) quotes of Christ in that text, and that of eastern philosophy, which enigmatic in it's scope, such that one I can hardly believe such is the work of mere priests whose agendas were to control, largely, their own flocks at the times they existed. I'm inclined to believe such enlightened men did, indeed, walk the earth.

If you do read it, and cannot sense it, there is no way to really explain it to you, in 25 words or less. I arrived at that conclusion after a lifetime of meditation upon such works. One could argue this, but that is not my objective, for I don't care if one accepts the above, or not. Just explaining it from my perspective. You are free to reject it. i wont' belabor the point beyond this comment.

You can go pretty far with just the rational mind of reason, but the peak of conciousness that is possible, in terms of pure awareness, simple reason can only take one to the foothill of that mighty peak. The rest of the way one can only hint, paint with metaphors, point to, dance around, etc., it's up to the individual to get it, and that takes time, lots of time, infinite curiosity, and faith in the idea that it is there to be achieved, all one has to do is embark on that journey, within.

But what do I know? I'm just a guy on the internet with a computer.

Follow your own path, thats' about all one can do, in this world.
 

Here is a link discussing the historical existence of Jesus as a man. It's a bit of a long read, but I believe you'll find it enlightening.


https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org...bible/jesus-historical-jesus/did-jesus-exist/
 
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