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You are Stupid

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Good4Nothin said:
Yes you! But don't get insulted, I am talking about all of humanity, including everyone.

Sometimes the smartest, most educated, people have the stupidest ideas. They have too much confidence in their own intelligence, and other people trust their expertise, so their stupid ideas get spread around.

Why are we ALL so stupid? Our conscious minds, which often think in words, are very useful for solving ordinary problems.

But solving problems depends on more than just logic. It depends on having the required data. If you want to fix a leak in your plumbing, and you have the knowledge (data) for doing it, then you will probably succeed. And the same for all the other practical problem-solving we do.

But what happens when data is missing? You don't know how to fix a plumbing leak. So you hire an expert to do it.

Ok, all that is obvious. But what happens when you don't have enough data, and the experts don't either? That happens more often than you think. It happens all the time.

Will the stock market go up or down? You can only guess, there is so much data you don't know about. And worst of all, you can't see the future. Check out what the experts are saying. Uh oh, they are all saying different things.

With the stock market, we sort of know we can't really trust any of the experts. There is too much unknown and there is too much that is unpredictable.

Is the stock market an unusual case? The economy is a complex system, after all, so no human mind can really grasp it.

No, wait, no, the stock market is not an unusual case. We inhabit complex systems within complex systems. Even our closest relationships with friends and relatives are complex systems. Beyond the grasp of our logic, impossible to ever analyze completely.

It doesn't matter how smart you think you are. You are stupid.
Click to expand...


You are confusing intelligence/stupidity with knowledge/ignorance

Intelligence is broadly defined as the ability to understand. Not how much you know.
 
Bullseye said:
Thanks for the sterling demonstration of stupidity. I bet you're still waiting for that $2500 saving in healthcare costs Obama promised you.
Click to expand...

Sigh.

I'm Canadian. We have that "socialist" healthcare so much of the Trump base hates. I pay roughly 1/2 what you do, and get better healthcare. Likely far far better.

So I can only surmise that you think it's "smart" to pay twice as much for a ****tier product. SMH.


You know Trump really loves you, right?
 
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JustHanging said:
Sigh.

I'm Canadian. We have that "socialist" healthcare so many conservatives hate. I pay roughly 1/2 what you do, and get better healthcare.

So I can only surmise that you think it's "smart" to pay twice as much for a ****tier product. SMH.


You know Trump loves you, right?
Click to expand...
One demonstration of stupidity was enough; you shouldn't have gone to the trouble of submitting a second.
 
Rich2018 said:
You are confusing intelligence/stupidity with knowledge/ignorance

Intelligence is broadly defined as the ability to understand. Not how much you know.
Click to expand...

Artificial intelligence research has shown that intelligence depends mostly on what and how much data you have access to. Computers can do formal logic, no problem. But their apparent intelligence depends on data.
 
Good4Nothin said:
Artificial intelligence research has shown that intelligence depends mostly on what and how much data you have access to. Computers can do formal logic, no problem. But their apparent intelligence depends on data.
Click to expand...

Then what is shows is wrong.

Intelligence is the ability to understand.


Clearly the more information you have the better you can make decisions...but if you lack the basic ability to understand, then a mountain of data won't help you.
 
Rich2018 said:
Then what is shows is wrong.

Intelligence is the ability to understand.


Clearly the more information you have the better you can make decisions...but if you lack the basic ability to understand, then a mountain of data won't help you.
Click to expand...

That's your definition. The early AI researchers expected that to be true, but found out it wasn't. Logic is easy to program.
 
Good4Nothin said:
That's your definition. The early AI researchers expected that to be true, but found out it wasn't. Logic is easy to program.
Click to expand...

I'm not talking about just logic

Everything from language to maths to historical timelines.

"Intelligence" (as used to describe how smart you are) is broadly defined as the ability to understand. So an intelligent child in a maths class gets the point of the lesson farly quickly, whereas a less intelligent child requires the lesson to be repeated several times before grasping the point.

Intelligence also means information in another context.
 
Rich2018 said:
I'm not talking about just logic

Everything from language to maths to historical timelines.

"Intelligence" (as used to describe how smart you are) is broadly defined as the ability to understand. So an intelligent child in a maths class gets the point of the lesson farly quickly, whereas a less intelligent child requires the lesson to be repeated several times before grasping the point.

Intelligence also means information in another context.
Click to expand...

I don't know. Intelligence is defined in different ways and no one really knows what it is. Our ability to understand a subject increases as our knowledge of the subject increases, so you can't separate knowledge from intelligence. And that is what AI research has found.
 
Good4Nothin said:
Yes you! But don't get insulted, I am talking about all of humanity, including everyone.

Sometimes the smartest, most educated, people have the stupidest ideas. They have too much confidence in their own intelligence, and other people trust their expertise, so their stupid ideas get spread around.

Why are we ALL so stupid? Our conscious minds, which often think in words, are very useful for solving ordinary problems.

But solving problems depends on more than just logic. It depends on having the required data. If you want to fix a leak in your plumbing, and you have the knowledge (data) for doing it, then you will probably succeed. And the same for all the other practical problem-solving we do.

But what happens when data is missing? You don't know how to fix a plumbing leak. So you hire an expert to do it.

Ok, all that is obvious. But what happens when you don't have enough data, and the experts don't either? That happens more often than you think. It happens all the time.

Will the stock market go up or down? You can only guess, there is so much data you don't know about. And worst of all, you can't see the future. Check out what the experts are saying. Uh oh, they are all saying different things.

With the stock market, we sort of know we can't really trust any of the experts. There is too much unknown and there is too much that is unpredictable.

Is the stock market an unusual case? The economy is a complex system, after all, so no human mind can really grasp it.

No, wait, no, the stock market is not an unusual case. We inhabit complex systems within complex systems. Even our closest relationships with friends and relatives are complex systems. Beyond the grasp of our logic, impossible to ever analyze completely.

It doesn't matter how smart you think you are. You are stupid.
Click to expand...

Yeah OK. Fine.

But that doesn't mean some aren't more stupid than others. If I have cancer, I would still want to be seen by the doc with the most knowledge and experience. Could he NOT know some things about cancer? Could he make mistakes? Sure. I know some people may dismiss his expertise based on such objections, and then try to self treat with herbal tea or acupuncture or whatever other nonsense "all-natural" treatment they find in the grocery store.

But don't you think one is more stupid than the other?
 
Rich2018 said:
I'm not talking about just logic

Everything from language to maths to historical timelines.

"Intelligence" (as used to describe how smart you are) is broadly defined as the ability to understand. So an intelligent child in a maths class gets the point of the lesson farly quickly, whereas a less intelligent child requires the lesson to be repeated several times before grasping the point.

Intelligence also means information in another context.
Click to expand...

IQ has been found to be much more malleable than previously thought- by education, experience, and other environmental influences. Nature/nurture are far more intertwined than previously thought.
 
Good4Nothin said:
Yes you! But don't get insulted, I am talking about all of humanity, including everyone.

Sometimes the smartest, most educated, people have the stupidest ideas. They have too much confidence in their own intelligence, and other people trust their expertise, so their stupid ideas get spread around.

Why are we ALL so stupid? Our conscious minds, which often think in words, are very useful for solving ordinary problems.

But solving problems depends on more than just logic. It depends on having the required data. If you want to fix a leak in your plumbing, and you have the knowledge (data) for doing it, then you will probably succeed. And the same for all the other practical problem-solving we do.

But what happens when data is missing? You don't know how to fix a plumbing leak. So you hire an expert to do it.

Ok, all that is obvious. But what happens when you don't have enough data, and the experts don't either? That happens more often than you think. It happens all the time.

Will the stock market go up or down? You can only guess, there is so much data you don't know about. And worst of all, you can't see the future. Check out what the experts are saying. Uh oh, they are all saying different things.

With the stock market, we sort of know we can't really trust any of the experts. There is too much unknown and there is too much that is unpredictable.

Is the stock market an unusual case? The economy is a complex system, after all, so no human mind can really grasp it.

No, wait, no, the stock market is not an unusual case. We inhabit complex systems within complex systems. Even our closest relationships with friends and relatives are complex systems. Beyond the grasp of our logic, impossible to ever analyze completely.

It doesn't matter how smart you think you are. You are stupid.
Click to expand...

Clever people talk in terms of levels of confidence.

Stupid people claim to be experts in computing and cognitive science and don't understand the difference between data and knowledge.
 
ataraxia said:
Yeah OK. Fine.

But that doesn't mean some aren't more stupid than others. If I have cancer, I would still want to be seen by the doc with the most knowledge and experience. Could he NOT know some things about cancer? Could he make mistakes? Sure. I know some people may dismiss his expertise based on such objections, and then try to self treat with herbal tea or acupuncture or whatever other nonsense "all-natural" treatment they find in the grocery store.

But don't you think one is more stupid than the other?
Click to expand...

My OP says that our intelligence can work for solving practical problems. Like fixing a plumbing leak, or treating a disease. I said that if you don't know how to solve a practical problem you can hire an expert. That would be an MD in the example you gave.

However, it's ironic that your example involves cancer, because that is one of the complex system problems that human science cannot figure out. No, not any day now, or any year now, or a hundred years from now. The problem is too complex for our limited minds. But that is a different controversy.
 
ataraxia said:
IQ has been found to be much more malleable than previously thought- by education, experience, and other environmental influences. Nature/nurture are far more intertwined than previously thought.
Click to expand...

I agree. Children can be pigeon-holed as smart or stupid early in life. If he weren't pigeon-holed the less intelligent child could probably catch up.

This has created the illusion that IQ is mostly fixed.
 
Some attribute this quote to Albert Einstein, some say not...at any rate...

"Everyone is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."
 
Good4Nothin said:
However, it's ironic that your example involves cancer, because that is one of the complex system problems that human science cannot figure out. No, not any day now, or any year now, or a hundred years from now. The problem is too complex for our limited minds.
Click to expand...

I had no idea about this. Are you just making this up, or do you have evidence that this is true? If so, I would appreciate links to any reputable sources.
 
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