Yet More Proof That Trump Has Done Nothing Wrong Vs Virus

[year2late]

There's been no national coordinated strategy on any of this. Testing, tracing, containment, response. Zero federal leadership. What little has been done, in terms of guidelines put out by the feds, Trump has done his best to undermine and obliterate. We need leadership at this moment and we have none.

I am still waiting to figure out how Trump thinks the Obama Administration screwed up H1N1

 

[Carleen]

The VIRUS killed them (along with pre-existing diseases). You expected the US president to have magic healing powers like Jesus?

Of course not, but when you wait as long as Trump did to act on it what you get is neglect and neglect cost many more lives.

 

[prometeus]

China has a population of billions of people.

Really?

 

[JoeyJoystick]

The left have been touting Europe, Europe, Europe for months now and now with more waves coming it gets more and more obvious every day that there really isn't a way to stop the virus. Those who did more than the US are now finding out that it was all for naught and they are right back where they started, even worse.

Italy Did Everything Right to Stop a Second Wave of the Coronavirus. So What Went Wrong?

ROME—If you turn on the news in Italy right now, you might be forgiven for thinking you are getting reruns from March. Pictures of COVID-only units, field hospitals being erected, exhausted medics, and coffins are again dominating headlines as Italy comes to grips with a deadly second wave of...

news.yahoo.com

1 - Just because in Europe it is as bad as in the US doesn't mean that the US is doing well. The US is doing very bad and so is Europe.
2 - Take a look at the countries that are doing well. Places like Singapore, Thailand, Taiwan, South Korea and even Australia and China. They show that much can be done, and has been done. And this includes wearing those stupid masks that don't work in the US and Europe. For some reason they seem to help in other parts of the world though. Oh, and if you take the effort to look at the daily new cases on the above mentioned countries, keep in mind that for all those countries most cases are new overseas arrivals and not local transmissions. So they are actually doing even better than they appear to be doing.

There is a big difference between looking at data and drawing a conclusion versus using data to come to a desired conclusion.


Joey

 

[JoeyJoystick]

The VIRUS killed them (along with pre-existing diseases). You expected the US president to have magic healing powers like Jesus?

I think most people would be happy if he had just one of your magical healing powers. Until now he has only shown to posses magical divisive powers and magical destructive powers.


Joey

 

[JoeyJoystick]

What they ****ing knew was that you don't bring on a Great Depression destroying everyone's lives in order to fight a virus that only effects 2.5%of the population and kills less than 1%. It's crazy to destroy 100% of American's lives in order to stop 2.5% from getting the virus.

Hi Moderate Right,

I think the problem most of us have is that we tend to think too much in black and white while there is a whole spectrum in between that we conveniently ignore.

I do believe that the initial reaction with a lockdown would have been the best approach. But as you correctly point out, this is not sustainable in the long run and would indeed make the depression in the 30s look like an economic boom. Now mind you, I did not come up with this myself, but I live in Thailand most of the time and if we look how they dealt with it in South-East Asia, you can clearly see that a different approach works. So what are the major differences? Now I am gonna list some things about Singapore. I take Singapore simply because economically and financially it is more fair to compare with than developing countries like Thailand, Vietnam or Cambodia.

- Complete lock-down.
- Gradual reopening.
- Tracing App is mandatory. If you arrive and do not have a phone that supports this, your sponsor, by law, has to provide you with a phone that has their tracing app.
- All arrivals go into Quarantine for a 2 week period.
- Masks are mandatory in public. Even on the street. Just came from Singapore 4 weeks ago and I have never seen a single person in the street without a mask, 1st offense is $300. 2nd Offense is $500. Third offense is arrest and court. Foreigners will be deported and not allowed back in.

And what is the result? Many of the bars and restaurants are open again. The daily number of cases is below 10. Few infections in the city, while much of the newly infected are found during quarantine.

This still had a major impact on the economy, so slowly more rules were imposed to allow to do business. Example: I entered under a new exception rule because I was going to work there for only 4 days. It is financially not viable for employer and customer to have people stay in a hotel for 2 weeks and wait. So they allowed me in the country with a 2 day quarantine period. After this I was allowed to work. However, I was only allowed to go from hotel room to client and back. Client provides a special room where I can eat. Special transport is arranged. Driver in the front and me in the back. In the hotel I stay in the room and eat in my room.

So we do not need a lock down. but there is many things we can do. But we do not want to do them. We do not like to wear masks. We do not like tracing apps. But if we were to accept those silly rules we could keep working and keep the cases at an acceptable low.

An other big issue is testing. A lot of testing. No waiting times. Quick results. Are the tests reliable? YES! Are some of the results wrong? YES! But at least we are getting a better grip on the virus than without testing. Lack of tests was acceptable in February, March and April, but this is not an excuse anymore. We were all warned about the rise of cases in the fall. So plenty of time to have prepared. A missed opportunity if you ask me.

Forget black & white. There is options. We can not always get the best of both worlds. Would be nice, but unlikely to happen.


Joey

 

[JacksinPA]

Hi Moderate Right,

I think the problem most of us have is that we tend to think too much in black and white while there is a whole spectrum in between that we conveniently ignore.

I do believe that the initial reaction with a lockdown would have been the best approach. But as you correctly point out, this is not sustainable in the long run and would indeed make the depression in the 30s look like an economic boom. Now mind you, I did not come up with this myself, but I live in Thailand most of the time and if we look how they dealt with it in South-East Asia, you can clearly see that a different approach works. So what are the major differences? Now I am gonna list some things about Singapore. I take Singapore simply because economically and financially it is more fair to compare with than developing countries like Thailand, Vietnam or Cambodia.

- Complete lock-down.
- Gradual reopening.
- Tracing App is mandatory. If you arrive and do not have a phone that supports this, your sponsor, by law, has to provide you with a phone that has their tracing app.
- All arrivals go into Quarantine for a 2 week period.
- Masks are mandatory in public. Even on the street. Just came from Singapore 4 weeks ago and I have never seen a single person in the street without a mask, 1st offense is $300. 2nd Offense is $500. Third offense is arrest and court. Foreigners will be deported and not allowed back in.

And what is the result? Many of the bars and restaurants are open again. The daily number of cases is below 10. Few infections in the city, while much of the newly infected are found during quarantine.

This still had a major impact on the economy, so slowly more rules were imposed to allow to do business. Example: I entered under a new exception rule because I was going to work there for only 4 days. It is financially not viable for employer and customer to have people stay in a hotel for 2 weeks and wait. So they allowed me in the country with a 2 day quarantine period. After this I was allowed to work. However, I was only allowed to go from hotel room to client and back. Client provides a special room where I can eat. Special transport is arranged. Driver in the front and me in the back. In the hotel I stay in the room and eat in my room.

So we do not need a lock down. but there is many things we can do. But we do not want to do them. We do not like to wear masks. We do not like tracing apps. But if we were to accept those silly rules we could keep working and keep the cases at an acceptable low.

An other big issue is testing. A lot of testing. No waiting times. Quick results. Are the tests reliable? YES! Are some of the results wrong? YES! But at least we are getting a better grip on the virus than without testing. Lack of tests was acceptable in February, March and April, but this is not an excuse anymore. We were all warned about the rise of cases in the fall. So plenty of time to have prepared. A missed opportunity if you ask me.

Forget black & white. There is options. We can not always get the best of both worlds. Would be nice, but unlikely to happen.


Joey

Trump has sidelined experts Fauci & Birx & put quack Atlas in charge. He has no idea what he is doing. Totally incompetent.

 

[JoeyJoystick]

Trump has sidelined experts Fauci & Birx & put quack Atlas in charge. He has no idea what he is doing. Totally incompetent.

Hi JacksinPA,

True. The Trumpet is using a well known tactic. By putting someone in place with what appears to be credentials, it is easier to convince the masses. He is not qualified to fulfill the position he has been given by The Trumpet. Fortunately, Fauci and Birx are not silenced. And their advice is still appreciated by many. And they know it.

Joey

 

[snakestretcher]

The left have been touting Europe, Europe, Europe for months now and now with more waves coming it gets more and more obvious every day that there really isn't a way to stop the virus. Those who did more than the US are now finding out that it was all for naught and they are right back where they started, even worse.

Italy Did Everything Right to Stop a Second Wave of the Coronavirus. So What Went Wrong?

ROME—If you turn on the news in Italy right now, you might be forgiven for thinking you are getting reruns from March. Pictures of COVID-only units, field hospitals being erected, exhausted medics, and coffins are again dominating headlines as Italy comes to grips with a deadly second wave of...

news.yahoo.com

You appear to ignore the 'coincidence' of the resurgence of infections everywhere that re-opened and eased restrictions prematurely. Try to focus on that instead of denying facts. Masks work. Wear one, or not. I choose life.

 

[Fletch]

Trump has done the Biden plan. The Biden plan is what Trump is already doing.

Yes. Anyone who paid attention to Bidens 'plan' knows he was just stating what had already been done.

 

[Fletch]

You appear to ignore the 'coincidence' of the resurgence of infections everywhere that re-opened and eased restrictions prematurely. Try to focus on that instead of denying facts. Masks work. Wear one, or not. I choose life.

Except you have been bragging all summer about your country got it right and ours got it wrong. Tell that to the 1000 Brits who died of the virus this week.

 

[snakestretcher]

Except you have been bragging all summer about your country got it right and ours got it wrong. Tell that to the 1000 Brits who died of the virus this week.

Oh dear. Try reading my post and see if you can figure out what I said about the 'coincidence' and consequences of premature reopening. We were doing fine until then. Now go and do something productive for a change.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

People died from this virus in many other countries. Were they killed by the leaders who failed to protect them from it?

You might find

New Study: 130,000 Americans Dead Unnecessarily

We noted above that it took Donald Trump a grand total of 3 seconds to tell his first lie at last night's debate. We did not explain what the lie was, but we shall now remedy that. What he said—and this is yet another of his oft-repeated talking points—was that early projections for the COVID-19 pandemic had 2.2 million Americans dead, and thanks to his administration's strong action, "only" 230,000 are dead. Consequently, he should be credited for saving nearly 2 million American lives.

This is yet another of those lies that doesn't pass even a preliminary smell test. First of all, that 2.2 million was the most dire estimate of all the estimates that were floating around back in March and April. Second, it was made when much about COVID-19 was unknown. Third, it was a "worst-case scenario" estimate that tried to predict what would happen if: (1) COVID-19 was as contagious and deadly as it could plausibly be, and (2) Americans did absolutely nothing to combat the disease. In other words, the number-crunchers were trying to guesstimate a worst-worst-worst case ceiling, and not trying to predict what might actually happen.

Now, some number-crunchers at Columbia have decided to take a look at this question from a different angle, and to ascertain what might have happened if the White House had handled the pandemic better. Needless to say, they are working with better data than was available back in Spring. And their conclusion is damning: 130,000 COVID-19 dead would be alive today, but for more effective leadership from the Trump administration. And actually, that's the least bad estimate in the study, based on what might have happened if the U.S. had responded to the pandemic in the same manner that Canada did. If the U.S. had followed Germany's lead, it might have saved 179,000 lives. And if the U.S. had followed in the footsteps of South Korea, it might have saved 210,000 lives.
[emphasis added]

[from ElectoralVote.com] interesting.

You can read the whole of "130,000 – 210,000 AVOIDABLE COVID-19 DEATHS – AND COUNTING – IN THE U.S.” by Irwin Redlener, MD; Jeffrey D. Sachs, PhD; Sean Hansen, MPA; Nathaniel Hupert, MD, MPH (October 21, 2020) HERE. (It's only 13 pages long.)

It's those "130,000 to 210,000" that people blame Mr. Trump's lack of leadership for.

You might also find the fact that, without considering any other factors

​

a randomly selected person in the "G-8 + China" group of countries, an (aggregated) "Europe", or an (aggregated) "World", has a lower chance of dying (which is a compination of "chance or contracting" plus "chance of dying if contracted") from COVID-19 than does a randomly selected person in the US. The UK comes closest to the US number and the UK is currently at 94.66%.

If you start to factor in "ability to pay" (using PPP GDP per capita as an indicator) and "prior healthcare spending per capita", the numbers make the US performance look even worse.

Mind you, I will concede that the US is NOT DOING THE WORST in the world.

When you look at this table

[SOURCE]
​

you can clearly see that there are 10 absolute international powerhouse nations that have a higher "Cases / Million" rate than the US does.

And when you look at this table

[SOURCE]
​

you can clearly see that there are 9 absolute international powerhouse nations that have a higher "Deaths / Million" rate than the US does.

PS - You might not have noticed it, but the Vatican City has had absolutely ZERO deaths from COVID-19. If you aren't a Roman Catholic, you might want to think about what that actually means.​

 

[Fletch]

Oh dear. Try reading my post and see if you can figure out what I said about the 'coincidence' and consequences of premature reopening. We were doing fine until then. Now go and do something productive for a change.

So you are saying the UK opened prematurely?

 

[snakestretcher]

So you are saying the UK opened prematurely?

Didn't I just say that? It was dumb move and we're suffering the consequences, same as the US. What's your problem; is simple English too hard?

 

[Fletch]

Didn't I just say that? It was dumb move and we're suffering the consequences, same as the US. What's your problem; is simple English too hard?

Youve been bragging all summer about how you guys did it right and have been open for months. Now you are changing your tune and saying you opened too early. When was the 'right' time for the UK to reopen oh King of Hindsight?

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

​

Except you have been bragging all summer about your country got it right and ours got it wrong. Tell that to the 1000 Brits who died of the virus this week.

The chance of a randomly selected person in the UK dying from COVID-19 is currently at less than 95% of the chance that a randomly selected person in the US will die from COVID-19

​

In the past seven days, 5,685 people have died from COVID-19 in the US. since the UK has 0.2051 of the population of the US that would work out to the equivalent of 1,166 UK deaths.

Yes, there is a resurgence in the UK

[SOURCE]
​

but the same thing most certainly appears to be happening in the US

​

By analogy, your position vis-a-vis America's response to COVID-19 is similar to someone who is standing in fecal material up to their chin pointing at someone who is standing in fecal material up to their shoulders and saying "Nyah, nyah, nyah - you are standing is shit and that proves that I am not.".

 

[snakestretcher]

Youve been bragging all summer about how you guys did it right and have been open for months. Now you are changing your tune and saying you opened too early. When was the 'right' time for the UK to reopen oh King of Hindsight?

We did get it right. Our government ****ed up just as things were getting back to some semblance of normality. How's America doing? "Turned the corner"?

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Didn't I just say that? It was dumb move and we're suffering the consequences, same as the US. What's your problem; is simple English too hard?

You have to write in American if you want him to understand you.

 

[snakestretcher]

You have to write in American if you want him to understand you.

How remiss of me! Thanks for the heads up.

 

[Fletch]

We did get it right. Our government ****ed up just as things were getting back to some semblance of normality. How's America doing? "Turned the corner"?

You werent saying this two months ago. NOr were you making the claim that your government opened too soon. You were bragging about how you got it right. Now that ist gone wrong you want to blame someone.

 

[snakestretcher]

You werent saying this two months ago. NOr were you making the claim that your government opened too soon. You were bragging about how you got it right. Now that ist gone wrong you want to blame someone.

Well two months ago we didn't have the growth of cases we now have! It doesn't happen overnight for crissakes. And yes, I am blaming the government for premature easing of the lockdowns. Who else should I blame since they introduced them in the first place?

 

[Fletch]

Well two months ago we didn't have the growth of cases we now have! It doesn't happen overnight for crissakes. And yes, I am blaming the government for premature easing of the lockdowns. Who else should I blame since they introduced them in the first place?

BUt you werent complaining at the time. You were defending what they were doing. Now that things didnt turn out well you are criticizing them.

 

[Fletch]

​

The chance of a randomly selected person in the UK dying from COVID-19 is currently at less than 95% of the chance that a randomly selected person in the US will die from COVID-19

View attachment 67301004​

In the past seven days, 5,685 people have died from COVID-19 in the US. since the UK has 0.2051 of the population of the US that would work out to the equivalent of 1,166 UK deaths.

Yes, there is a resurgence in the UK

Yes. And in the past 7 days there has been 1054 deaths in the UK. And using your own numbers, since the beginning of the pandemic the US has a death rate of 689 per 1,000,000 and the UK 652 per 1,000,000. That is statistically insignificant

​

By analogy, your position vis-a-vis America's response to COVID-19 is similar to someone who is standing in fecal material up to their chin pointing at someone who is standing in fecal material up to their shoulders and saying "Nyah, nyah, nyah - you are standing is shit and that proves that I am not.".

No, you are late to the conversation between snakey and myself. For months he has been bragging about how well the UK has done in comparison to us. And I have been repeatedly pointing out to him that his argument is similar to someone who is standing in fecal material up to their neck pointing at someone who is standing in fecal material up to their chin and saying "Nyah, nyah, nyah - you are standing is shit and that proves that I am not.".

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

You werent saying this two months ago. NOr were you making the claim that your government opened too soon. You were bragging about how you got it right. Now that ist gone wrong you want to blame someone.

From this series of your posts, I just have to ask you this question:

If you were walking along, tripped, and fell face first into a fresh, steaming, cow flop, AND IF, when you looked up you saw someone else step on a pile of doggie-doo, would that mean that you hadn't fallen face first into a fresh, steaming, cow flop?​

The reason I have to ask you this question is that this series of your posts indicates that, as far as you are concerned, the answer is "Yes." and I can't believe that anyone could actually be that divorced from reality.