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Yet more alarming headlines.

It does quantify the amount in the body of the paper.

You’re really confused.
Yet you didn't quote it. You just link the main site. You quoted something meaningless. I figured I would return the favor for you guys.

Please understand that you make yourself irrelevant. Step up and be more concise and accurate if you wish to sit at the adult table.
 
Yet you didn't quote it. You just link the main site. You quoted something meaningless. I figured I would return the favor for you guys.

Please understand that you make yourself irrelevant. Step up and be more concise and accurate if you wish to sit at the adult table.
Meaningless? It’s the first point in the executive summary of the third working group- literally exactly the thing you said you couldnt find.

You’re really bad at this.
 
The Global Warming Potential (GWP) Has been described in all five IPCC Assessment reports here's the verbiage from the first

IPCC FAR Chapter 2 Page 58; 2.2.7
A Global Warming Potential Concept for Trace Gases
The Global Warming Potential (GWP) of the emissions of a greenhouse gas, as employed in this report,
is the time integrated commitment to climate forcing from the instantaneous release of 1 kg of a trace
gas expressed relative to that from 1 kg of carbon dioxide


Here it is in the most recent assessment report:

IPCC AR5 Chapter 8 Page 710; 8.7.1.2
The Global Warming Potential Concept
The Global Warming Potential (GWP) is defined as the time-integrated RF due to a pulse
emission of a given component, relative to a pulse emission of an equal mass of CO2


The AR5 Chapter 8 Page 714 Table 8.7 Lists the GWP for methane (CH4) as 86 with feedback from CO2 included.

The definitions of the GWP numbers has gotten longer with each successive report,
but the basic concept is the same. The radiative forcing (RF) of Methane is compared
to the RF of an equal mass of CO2. Articles in the media have always translated that
into the phrase "so many times more powerful than CO2." Currently that number is
86 times more powerful but you see different numbers depending on what the reporters
read and who they quote i.e., different IPCC reports & time horizons, but it's always the
same concept.

Regarding the amount of methane in the atmosphere by 2100, NOAA's
Global Monitoring Laboratory page on methane has a nice table
"Annual Increase in Globally-Averaged Atmospheric Methane" listing the
annual increases since 1984. It's an easy calculation to come up with an
average increase 6.73 ppb and extrapolate that out to 532 ppb by 2100.

The rest of the story as you indelicately put it, you have to pull out by yourself.
You have to figure out what an equal mass of CO2 by 2100 is compared to the
532 ppb (0.532 ppm) of methane. Your 11th grade chemistry says the gram
formula weight of methane (CH4) is 16 and CO2 is 44. So it follows that
(16/44) x 0.532 ppm = 0.19 ppm CO2 by 2100. So how much will global
temperatures rise if CO2 increases by 0.19 ppm? I put it in the earlier post as,
"If CO2 increases from 400.00 ppm to 400.18 ppm." And that of course is zilch.

Dr. Richard Feynman said, "The first principle is that you must not fool yourself,
and you are the easiest person to fool
." I worry about that, because I don't find
the above reasoning spelled out anywhere. So, is it wrong? For years, I've been
seeing stories in the press about methane being so many times more powerful
than CO2 but it always stops there without an explanation of why, or how much
that translates into global temperature.

So if you have a better explanation of the IPCC's GWP numbers that tell you how
much methane is going to run up temperatures in the future, and it's way more
than the 0.04°C by 2100 that I've come up with then by all means put up a link.

Methane is not the primary problem. Human-produced CO2 is. All the IPCC reported day that.
 
Meaningless? It’s the first point in the executive summary of the third working group- literally exactly the thing you said you couldnt find.

You’re really bad at this.
How would anyone know if you did not quote the section of a 1000 + page document, that you thought was relevant?
 
Yet you didn't quote it. You just link the main site. You quoted something meaningless. I figured I would return the favor for you guys.

Please understand that you make yourself irrelevant. Step up and be more concise and accurate if you wish to sit at the adult table.

Ad hom. As usual.
 
Meaningless? It’s the first point in the executive summary of the third working group- literally exactly the thing you said you couldnt find.

You’re really bad at this.
How many hundreds of pages are there?

No, you just think you're good.
 
How many hundreds of pages are there?

No, you just think you're good.
Well, the executive summary doesnt have that many pages - you should read it sometime.

Then you might understand the giggling on the phone when you call NOAA.
 
Methane is not the primary problem. Human-produced CO2 is. All the IPCC reported day that.
Thank you for that. I appreciate it. Some of the stories in the press do indeed lead you
to believe that it is primary. Of course, in my book CO2 isn't a problem either.
 
Thank you for that. I appreciate it. Some of the stories in the press do indeed lead you
to believe that it is primary. Of course, in my book CO2 isn't a problem either.

That's nice, except that nobody of any authority cares the least bit about "your book".
 
That's nice, except that nobody of any authority cares the least bit about "your book".
There will be a lot of people that care when they are told that they can't buy a house
unless it is all electric, and sellers and buyers have to bear the cost of replacing all the
gas appliances in the house and upgrade the electrical service for the new furnace,
hot water heater, clothes dryer, and put up with the intermittent service that is already
occurring because of this lunacy. And if that's in my neck of the woods they will have
to figure out how to keep their pipes from freezing not to mention how they will stay
warm themselves.

These days it seems to be a fad among bureaucrats to show off how virtuous they are
to their cronies by pledging to reduce the so-called carbon foot print of the little people
they are screwing.

The future does not consist of a shining city on a hill, but rather drab public housing with
people trading on black markets for things they need, waiting in the snow for buses that
are over crowded and break down. Think about the opening lines in Orwell's 1984.
 
There will be a lot of people that care when they are told that they can't buy a house
unless it is all electric, and sellers and buyers have to bear the cost of replacing all the
gas appliances in the house and upgrade the electrical service for the new furnace,
hot water heater, clothes dryer, and put up with the intermittent service that is already
occurring because of this lunacy. And if that's in my neck of the woods they will have
to figure out how to keep their pipes from freezing not to mention how they will stay
warm themselves.

These days it seems to be a fad among bureaucrats to show off how virtuous they are
to their cronies by pledging to reduce the so-called carbon foot print of the little people
they are screwing.

The future does not consist of a shining city on a hill, but rather drab public housing with
people trading on black markets for things they need, waiting in the snow for buses that
are over crowded and break down. Think about the opening lines in Orwell's 1984.

What will be the long-term costs if nothing is done as people on a worldwide basis have to rearrange their lives due to the effects of global warming. The number of “natural disasters” is on the increase and has disrupted and will disrupt lots of lives.
 
Again, it depends on the portion of the cycle observed!
Relative to 1950, the aerosol effect in the Northern Hemisphere is a positive forcing.
Also I did not choose the year, but the authors of the papers on the topic, choose the starting year of 1950.
ENLIGHTENING GLOBAL DIMMING AND BRIGHTENING
In addition Wild also found large differences between aerosol emissions like Sulfur in the different Hemispheres.
View attachment 67332574
The effects of the Northern Hemisphere changes on the global temperatures can readily be seen in Wood for Trees.
In My opinion, it looks like the rapid warming in the Northern Hemisphere post 1990, pulled up the global average by about .15C.
This may not sound like much, but an additional attribution that large, changes CO2's possible contribution.
Wood For Trees
View attachment 67332575
O.K... so by your logic all we have to do is cherry-pick a timeframe of a change in forcings and that way we can pick and chose whether a forcing is positive or negative. Take for instance when methane was decreasing up until about 2000. So... using your logic... and your cherry-picking... methane can be described as a negative forcing?

That is just stupid.
 
What will be the long-term costs if nothing is done as people on a worldwide basis have to rearrange their lives due to the effects of global warming. The number of “natural disasters” is on the increase and has disrupted and will disrupt lots of lives.
What will be the long-term costs if nothing is done as people on a worldwide
basis have to rearrange their lives due to the effects of global warming.


You mean from the effects of a warmer & greener world with more rain,
longer growing seasons and more arable land?

The number of “natural disasters” is on the increase and has disrupted and will disrupt lots of lives.

How about a link that shows that these natural disasters that you are talking about are actually increasing.
You guys have been screaming about global warming, Climate Change, the Climate Crisis etc. for 40 years,
and as near as I can tell the disasters aren't increasing. The greening of the earth as I alluded to above is
happening. Here are those two links from NOAA and NASA:


 
What will be the long-term costs if nothing is done as people on a worldwide basis have to rearrange their lives due to the effects of global warming. The number of “natural disasters” is on the increase and has disrupted and will disrupt lots of lives.
I think nobody actually knows. Me, I suspect it will be a net positive… unfortunately it’s a sad truth that disaster usually leads directly to increased economic output so long as the disaster doesn’t kill a decent percentage of the population. I cannot rationalize why climate change (which I do believe is happening) would be different over the long run. Granted that won’t stop me from owning EVs (because they’re better) or using solar (because it’s cheaper) but those choices don’t necessarily mean I’m convinced that climate change will lead directly to massive economic disaster or societal collapse.

unless you’re living on one of those islands or atolls just a few feet above sea level. Then yeah, you’re screwed.
 
O.K... so by your logic all we have to do is cherry-pick a timeframe of a change in forcings and that way we can pick and chose whether a forcing is positive or negative. Take for instance when methane was decreasing up until about 2000. So... using your logic... and your cherry-picking... methane can be described as a negative forcing?

That is just stupid.
Imagine that since we started burning coal for power back in the 1700's that aerosols started slowly reducing
the amount of sunlight reaching the ground. We can say at roughly 3 W m-2 per decade.
Then around 1980 we change the laws and greatly limit aerosol emissions, and the skies start to clear.
The clearing reverses the earlier attenuation at a rate of 8 W m-2 per decade.
aerosols.png
By 1990, we are already near the 1950 level, by 2000 we have exceeded the 1950 level of sunlight reaching the ground.
relative to 1950, more sunlight is reaching the ground in year 2000, a positive forcing!
 
Imagine that since we started burning coal for power back in the 1700's that aerosols started slowly reducing
the amount of sunlight reaching the ground. We can say at roughly 3 W m-2 per decade.
Then around 1980 we change the laws and greatly limit aerosol emissions, and the skies start to clear.
The clearing reverses the earlier attenuation at a rate of 8 W m-2 per decade.
View attachment 67332712
By 1990, we are already near the 1950 level, by 2000 we have exceeded the 1950 level of sunlight reaching the ground.
relative to 1950, more sunlight is reaching the ground in year 2000, a positive forcing!
Look, long... I understand how you are cherry-picking data and time frames to falsely claim aerosols are a positive forcing. You repeating yourself over and over again doesn't justify your methodology. How about addressing the other points I am making. Or are you just not able to?
 
Look, long... I understand how you are cherry-picking data and time frames to falsely claim aerosols are a positive forcing. You repeating yourself over and over again doesn't justify your methodology. How about addressing the other points I am making. Or are you just not able to?
Buzz, it is not my methodology or my cherry picking! The proponents of catastrophic AGW are pointing to
the time period after 1980, and attributing nearly 100% of the observed warming to increases in greenhouse gasses,
when from a starting point of 1980, a large portion of that global warming, could be from aerosol clearing in the northern Hemisphere
bringing the average up!
 
Buzz, it is not my methodology or my cherry picking! The proponents of catastrophic AGW are pointing to
the time period after 1980, and attributing nearly 100% of the observed warming to increases in greenhouse gasses,
when from a starting point of 1980, a large portion of that global warming, could be from aerosol clearing in the northern Hemisphere
bringing the average up!
If it is not your cherry-picking and methodology then show us all some science that says the same thing you say. I bet you can't show anything.

The fact of the matter is most scientists know that aerosols have just been lessening the effects of GHG warming and that lessening is going away. All you are doing is pretending that clearing the sky is making it warmer when it is really the GHG having its full effects.
 
If it is not your cherry-picking and methodology then show us all some science that says the same thing you say. I bet you can't show anything.

The fact of the matter is most scientists know that aerosols have just been lessening the effects of GHG warming and that lessening is going away. All you are doing is pretending that clearing the sky is making it warmer when it is really the GHG having its full effects.
Again, the dates were already chosen!
IPCC AR5 SPM
Warming of the climate system is unequivocal, and since the 1950s, many of the observed changes are unprecedented over decades to millennia.
Because there was nearly zero warming between 1950 and 1980, the IPCC's unequivocal warming, must be post 1980.
The IPCC's adjustments for aerosols are all negative, because they are relative to 1750, but the unequivocal warming,
is relative to 1950, and relative to 1950, aerosols should have a positive number!
 
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