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Yes, In America White Racism Is Worse Than Any Other Racism.

Glen Contrarian

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But it's not specifically because of any inherent racism on the part of whites. In any culture, many (or sometimes most) of the race that has been dominant will be at least to some extent racist towards those of that culture who are not of their race. This is seen in any culture where there has been a dominant race. This applies not only to races but also to ethnicities and even religions, and is seen even in the Bible. The root of this is the perception that "we of this race/ethnicity/religion are so much more successful, therefore we must be inherently better". The Chinese saw everyone who wasn't Chinese as something less than themselves for centuries in the days that they were the most advanced, educated, mightiest, and successful people in the world.

White racism (overt and covert) is worse than any other racism in America, not because of anything inherent in our 'whiteness', but because we're the dominant race (at least for now). The other races are less racist, not because they're naturally less racist but because they can see how racism adversely affects them and can see first-hand how wrong it is. What's more, it is natural in any culture for those of a less-successful race, ethnicity, or class to be more welcoming (often with open arms) to those of the more successful race. Just as in the Mississippi Delta of my youth the blacks were more welcoming of the whites than the whites were of the blacks, those who of races and ethnicities who see themselves as less successful than whites are often much more welcoming of whites than whites are of them.

To give an example, in the Philippines, whites are sometimes (but rarely, now) called "blu sils", which referred to the blue seals that were seen as a mark of quality on Marlboro cigarettes. Conversely, back in the 1980's when the Japanese were flying so economically high, all of a sudden white women were being seen much more often on the arms of Japanese men.

Relatively speaking, it is only recently in human history that prejudice against others of a different race/ethncity/culture/religion has been seen as wrong, so efforts to minimize such prejudice is still met with much resistance. But those of us who understand how wrong prejudice is must keep up the fight against that prejudice. And here's the key - in America, whites are the most successful and most economically and socially powerful, so whatever white racists do is worse because it will normally have a greater social effect than that which is done by racists of other (less economically successful) races. That's why, in America white racists are worse than any other racists - because our money and power allow our racism to be more socially effective...and so as with any set of problems, the worst part of that problem deserves the most attention - and thus it is good and right that white racism receives the most corrective attention.
 

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That one considers an attitude based upon the color of one's skin rather than the actual attitude expressed is an impediment to combatting racism rather than a useful tool thereof.

Creating reams of sophistry to justify double standards takes us father away from a solution rather than closer, and all of the apologia of those afflicted by white guilt is a problem in and of itself.
 

Glen Contrarian

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That one considers an attitude based upon the color of one's skin rather than the actual attitude expressed is an impediment to combatting racism rather than a useful tool thereof.

Creating reams of sophistry to justify double standards takes us father away from a solution rather than closer, and all of the apologia of those afflicted by white guilt is a problem in and of itself.
It's not a justification at all - it's an observation of the real roots of prejudice: the fear of the different, and perceptions of the people of how different levels or types of success are attached to a race or ethnicity or religion...and the point is, the social effectiveness of the prejudice is directly related to the socioeconomic success of the one wielding that prejudice.

The purpose of this post, Gardener, is to help people understand the roots of racism, and to help people understand why white racism in America appears to be - is - worse and more common than, say, black racism. Do you have a better explanation?
 

Gardener

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It's not a justification at all - it's an observation of the real roots of prejudice: the fear of the different, and perceptions of the people of how different levels or types of success are attached to a race or ethnicity or religion...and the point is, the social effectiveness of the prejudice is directly related to the socioeconomic success of the one wielding that prejudice.

The purpose of this post, Gardener, is to help people understand the roots of racism, and to help people understand why white racism in America appears to be - is - worse and more common than, say, black racism. Do you have a better explanation?
I do have my experience raising a child who I had to take out of the Oakland school system due to his being the target of black on white racism that the school system failed to address much less even acknowledge, and if you think his bruises and blood are of a lesser value than those of black children, then you are quite definitly part of the problem rather than part of the solution.
 

Bob Blaylock

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I suppose there's really nothing surprising about this OP and the resulting thread.

“Progressives” have long tried to falsely claim the high ground on racial matters, yet theirs was the party of slavery; theirs was the party of the Ku Klux Klan, and to this day, theirs is the party that has exploited a large portion of the black community by luring them into social decay and dependence on government, for the purpose of coercing them into supporting the “progressive”*cause.

Their lie is failing. There's no surprise that we now see some on this side trying to bolster their lie by once again falsely accusing their opponents of racism, and then making the excuse that “your racism is worse than our racism”.
 
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Glen Contrarian

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I do have my experience raising a child who I had to take out of the Oakland school system due to his being the target of black on white racism that the school system failed to address much less even acknowledge, and if you think his bruises and blood are of a lesser value than those of black children, then you are quite definitly part of the problem rather than part of the solution.
Whereas I had the opportunity to go one year to an all-white school in Mississippi one year and then to an almost-completely black school the next year...and I saw much more racism in the white school than in the black (and this was the year that the movie "Roots" came out). BTW - that all-white school is "Indianola Academy". Google it and you'll find it's still all-white...even though it's in a county that's 71% black. There's a reason why it's that way - look up Senator James O. Eastland (our family acquaintance who was twice President Pro Tem), the White Citizens' Council, and the all-white academy system that still operates today.

I never said that there isn't black racism - I said that it's more prevalent among whites because whites are currently the most successful economically and socially...just like such prejudice is more prevalent in the most successful race/ethnicity/religion of any culture.
 

truth seeker?

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The idea of race is a social construct and does not exist. The idea Race was passed down by the ruling elite to allow slavery etc it has no biological evidence. Society has created much racism e.g. if a Muslim kills someone the fact that he is Muslim is highlighted and crimes of the powerful e.g. coca cola in LEDC exploiting them is ignored by the media
 

Glen Contrarian

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I suppose there's really nothing surprising about this OP and the resulting thread.

“Progressives” have long tried to falsely claim the high ground on racial matters, yet theirs was the party of slavery; theirs was the party of the Ku Klux Klan, and to this day, theirs is the party that has exploited a large portion of the black community by luring them into social decay and dependence on government, for the purpose of coercing them into supporting the “progressive”*cause.

Their lie is failing. There's no surprise that we now see some on this side trying to bolster their lie by once again falsely accusing their opponents of racism, and then making the excuse that “your racism is worse than our racism”.
Project much?

I knew a few Blaylocks back Down South - had a few who were kin to us. Wouldn't surprise me if you're one of them. But in any case, your post is SO much like the same language I heard from several of my fellow whites - including my family - back in the Delta...and it's nothing more than the excuse they use to justify their own prejudice.

But in any case, there's a reason why blacks - and Hispanics and Asians - all vote strongly for the Democrats now...because they can see that the Republicans really don't give a rat's hind end about them. Perhaps most telling is when a Democrat says something racial, they usually get fired or are shunned by the rest. Among Republicans, however, it's just another day at the office.

Most tragic of all is that I've found that most racists don't even realize that they are racist. They'll deny racism all day long and they'll be utterly serious about it...but as soon as those they can't trust are no longer in earshot, out come the n-words. And don't tell me it isn't this way, because back in the day when I was a strong conservative, that's simply the way it was - I lived it...and so I know the dog whistle when I hear it...and when I read it.
 

Glen Contrarian

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The idea of race is a social construct and does not exist. The idea Race was passed down by the ruling elite to allow slavery etc it has no biological evidence. Society has created much racism e.g. if a Muslim kills someone the fact that he is Muslim is highlighted and crimes of the powerful e.g. coca cola in LEDC exploiting them is ignored by the media
"Does not exist"? Really? That might sound nice, but try telling that to someone who's been a victim of racism.
 

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But it's not specifically because of any inherent racism on the part of whites. In any culture, many (or sometimes most) of the race that has been dominant will be at least to some extent racist towards those of that culture who are not of their race. This is seen in any culture where there has been a dominant race. This applies not only to races but also to ethnicities and even religions, and is seen even in the Bible. The root of this is the perception that "we of this race/ethnicity/religion are so much more successful, therefore we must be inherently better". The Chinese saw everyone who wasn't Chinese as something less than themselves for centuries in the days that they were the most advanced, educated, mightiest, and successful people in the world.

White racism (overt and covert) is worse than any other racism in America, not because of anything inherent in our 'whiteness', but because we're the dominant race (at least for now). The other races are less racist, not because they're naturally less racist but because they can see how racism adversely affects them and can see first-hand how wrong it is. What's more, it is natural in any culture for those of a less-successful race, ethnicity, or class to be more welcoming (often with open arms) to those of the more successful race. Just as in the Mississippi Delta of my youth the blacks were more welcoming of the whites than the whites were of the blacks, those who of races and ethnicities who see themselves as less successful than whites are often much more welcoming of whites than whites are of them.

To give an example, in the Philippines, whites are sometimes (but rarely, now) called "blu sils", which referred to the blue seals that were seen as a mark of quality on Marlboro cigarettes. Conversely, back in the 1980's when the Japanese were flying so economically high, all of a sudden white women were being seen much more often on the arms of Japanese men.

Relatively speaking, it is only recently in human history that prejudice against others of a different race/ethncity/culture/religion has been seen as wrong, so efforts to minimize such prejudice is still met with much resistance. But those of us who understand how wrong prejudice is must keep up the fight against that prejudice. And here's the key - in America, whites are the most successful and most economically and socially powerful, so whatever white racists do is worse because it will normally have a greater social effect than that which is done by racists of other (less economically successful) races. That's why, in America white racists are worse than any other racists - because our money and power allow our racism to be more socially effective...and so as with any set of problems, the worst part of that problem deserves the most attention - and thus it is good and right that white racism receives the most corrective attention.
Thanks for posting this. I've made a few references to Critical Theory in the context of social dynamics but this is a far better exemplar than I have posted.
 

Fiddytree

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I do have my experience raising a child who I had to take out of the Oakland school system due to his being the target of black on white racism that the school system failed to address much less even acknowledge, and if you think his bruises and blood are of a lesser value than those of black children, then you are quite definitly part of the problem rather than part of the solution.
Racism is bad in general, but I think you could merge both his basic and your basic points together, as it is demonstrative that whichever group holds power in a relative location or situation can make the impact of racism more severe on the situation's disadvantaged.
 

Ikari

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But it's not specifically because of any inherent racism on the part of whites. In any culture, many (or sometimes most) of the race that has been dominant will be at least to some extent racist towards those of that culture who are not of their race. This is seen in any culture where there has been a dominant race. This applies not only to races but also to ethnicities and even religions, and is seen even in the Bible. The root of this is the perception that "we of this race/ethnicity/religion are so much more successful, therefore we must be inherently better". The Chinese saw everyone who wasn't Chinese as something less than themselves for centuries in the days that they were the most advanced, educated, mightiest, and successful people in the world.

White racism (overt and covert) is worse than any other racism in America, not because of anything inherent in our 'whiteness', but because we're the dominant race (at least for now). The other races are less racist, not because they're naturally less racist but because they can see how racism adversely affects them and can see first-hand how wrong it is. What's more, it is natural in any culture for those of a less-successful race, ethnicity, or class to be more welcoming (often with open arms) to those of the more successful race. Just as in the Mississippi Delta of my youth the blacks were more welcoming of the whites than the whites were of the blacks, those who of races and ethnicities who see themselves as less successful than whites are often much more welcoming of whites than whites are of them.

To give an example, in the Philippines, whites are sometimes (but rarely, now) called "blu sils", which referred to the blue seals that were seen as a mark of quality on Marlboro cigarettes. Conversely, back in the 1980's when the Japanese were flying so economically high, all of a sudden white women were being seen much more often on the arms of Japanese men.

Relatively speaking, it is only recently in human history that prejudice against others of a different race/ethncity/culture/religion has been seen as wrong, so efforts to minimize such prejudice is still met with much resistance. But those of us who understand how wrong prejudice is must keep up the fight against that prejudice. And here's the key - in America, whites are the most successful and most economically and socially powerful, so whatever white racists do is worse because it will normally have a greater social effect than that which is done by racists of other (less economically successful) races. That's why, in America white racists are worse than any other racists - because our money and power allow our racism to be more socially effective...and so as with any set of problems, the worst part of that problem deserves the most attention - and thus it is good and right that white racism receives the most corrective attention.
This is why I'm an elitist. I base everything on performance and nothing more. Either you can do your job or I find someone who can. Everything else is unnecessary.
 

Smeagol

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But it's not specifically because of any inherent racism on the part of whites. In any culture, many (or sometimes most) of the race that has been dominant will be at least to some extent racist towards those of that culture who are not of their race. This is seen in any culture where there has been a dominant race. This applies not only to races but also to ethnicities and even religions, and is seen even in the Bible. The root of this is the perception that "we of this race/ethnicity/religion are so much more successful, therefore we must be inherently better". The Chinese saw everyone who wasn't Chinese as something less than themselves for centuries in the days that they were the most advanced, educated, mightiest, and successful people in the world.

White racism (overt and covert) is worse than any other racism in America, not because of anything inherent in our 'whiteness', but because we're the dominant race (at least for now). The other races are less racist, not because they're naturally less racist but because they can see how racism adversely affects them and can see first-hand how wrong it is. What's more, it is natural in any culture for those of a less-successful race, ethnicity, or class to be more welcoming (often with open arms) to those of the more successful race. Just as in the Mississippi Delta of my youth the blacks were more welcoming of the whites than the whites were of the blacks, those who of races and ethnicities who see themselves as less successful than whites are often much more welcoming of whites than whites are of them.

To give an example, in the Philippines, whites are sometimes (but rarely, now) called "blu sils", which referred to the blue seals that were seen as a mark of quality on Marlboro cigarettes. Conversely, back in the 1980's when the Japanese were flying so economically high, all of a sudden white women were being seen much more often on the arms of Japanese men.

Relatively speaking, it is only recently in human history that prejudice against others of a different race/ethncity/culture/religion has been seen as wrong, so efforts to minimize such prejudice is still met with much resistance. But those of us who understand how wrong prejudice is must keep up the fight against that prejudice. And here's the key - in America, whites are the most successful and most economically and socially powerful, so whatever white racists do is worse because it will normally have a greater social effect than that which is done by racists of other (less economically successful) races. That's why, in America white racists are worse than any other racists - because our money and power allow our racism to be more socially effective...and so as with any set of problems, the worst part of that problem deserves the most attention - and thus it is good and right that white racism receives the most corrective attention.
I tend to agree. I think it has more to do with a history of cruel subjugation and the fact that modern expressions of white racism echos that history, as opposed to just being the majority ethnic group however.

Solutions:

-Whites should take ownership of their heritage of sacrificing to end racism.
-Whites should be more willing to honor and celebrate black American heritage, just as blacks honor and celebrate the contributions of Americans of European heritage.
-Everybody needs good friends of all races. We shouldn't isolate ourselves into just our own ethnic groups.
-I know this is somewhat of a tangent, but young black guys need to work to change any negative images that exist that reflect poorly on the black population. One of the life's mission of every black American male should be to work to see that day when if someone sees a man walking toward them on a dark street, as soon as the person realizes its a black guy an immediate sense of peace overcomes them because they feel black men will protect them from any and all harm. I personally think the thugs who terrorized George Zimmerman's neighborhood helped to create a negative image of all young black men and share in the responsibility of the reaction that led to Trayvon Martin's death.
 

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I suppose there's really nothing surprising about this OP and the resulting thread.

“Progressives” have long tried to falsely claim the high ground on racial matters, yet theirs was the party of slavery; theirs was the party of the Ku Klux Klan, and to this day, theirs is the party that has exploited a large portion of the black community by luring them into social decay and dependence on government, for the purpose of coercing them into supporting the “progressive”*cause.

Their lie is failing. There's no surprise that we now see some on this side trying to bolster their lie by once again falsely accusing their opponents of racism, and then making the excuse that “your racism is worse than our racism”.
Right. Critical Theory as applied to social dynamics serves as a way to rationalize racism. The idea is kind of related to the Freudian theory of Projection in that an individual who has deep rooted racial bias claims that his own attitude is the result of a social construct based in racism and thus it isn't him that's the racist, it's everyone else.
 

ChezC3

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But it's not specifically because of any inherent racism on the part of whites. In any culture, many (or sometimes most) of the race that has been dominant will be at least to some extent racist towards those of that culture who are not of their race. This is seen in any culture where there has been a dominant race. This applies not only to races but also to ethnicities and even religions, and is seen even in the Bible. The root of this is the perception that "we of this race/ethnicity/religion are so much more successful, therefore we must be inherently better". The Chinese saw everyone who wasn't Chinese as something less than themselves for centuries in the days that they were the most advanced, educated, mightiest, and successful people in the world.

White racism (overt and covert) is worse than any other racism in America, not because of anything inherent in our 'whiteness', but because we're the dominant race (at least for now). The other races are less racist, not because they're naturally less racist but because they can see how racism adversely affects them and can see first-hand how wrong it is. What's more, it is natural in any culture for those of a less-successful race, ethnicity, or class to be more welcoming (often with open arms) to those of the more successful race. Just as in the Mississippi Delta of my youth the blacks were more welcoming of the whites than the whites were of the blacks, those who of races and ethnicities who see themselves as less successful than whites are often much more welcoming of whites than whites are of them.

To give an example, in the Philippines, whites are sometimes (but rarely, now) called "blu sils", which referred to the blue seals that were seen as a mark of quality on Marlboro cigarettes. Conversely, back in the 1980's when the Japanese were flying so economically high, all of a sudden white women were being seen much more often on the arms of Japanese men.

Relatively speaking, it is only recently in human history that prejudice against others of a different race/ethncity/culture/religion has been seen as wrong, so efforts to minimize such prejudice is still met with much resistance. But those of us who understand how wrong prejudice is must keep up the fight against that prejudice. And here's the key - in America, whites are the most successful and most economically and socially powerful, so whatever white racists do is worse because it will normally have a greater social effect than that which is done by racists of other (less economically successful) races. That's why, in America white racists are worse than any other racists - because our money and power allow our racism to be more socially effective...and so as with any set of problems, the worst part of that problem deserves the most attention - and thus it is good and right that white racism receives the most corrective attention.

So your point is we should weaken the white man's power and influence (that is what your corrective attention is all about, no?)to lessen his racist capabilities and as a result his sensibilities, all with the hopes that the formerly repressed, oppressed victims of white racism will somehow not inflict upon the white man what he has done to them, should they ever get the chance?

In a word, naive.

(you do know distinguishing white racism from any other racism is racist, don't you?)
 

Drake McHugh

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Like the Birchers who saw a Communist under every rock and behind every bush,leftists see racism in everything.
 

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Like the Birchers who saw a Communist under every rock and behind every bush,leftists see racism in everything.
And look what we have today. Self avowed Communists in the Oval office...
 

Glen Contrarian

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This is why I'm an elitist. I base everything on performance and nothing more. Either you can do your job or I find someone who can. Everything else is unnecessary.
But the caveat is that it is incumbent upon us to maximize the opportunity for people to be able to demonstrate that performance...and the idea that some here have that minorities are somehow privileged or that whites' rights are somehow under attack really have no clue as to how hard the one side has it and how good the other side has it...nor do they understand how giving the disadvantaged a hand up can yield wonderful results.

Let me give another example - my wife used to be an illegal alien before Reagan's amnesty. Now she's the owner of a small business that pulls in six figures and provides jobs for several other people. If the conservatives had their way, she would never have had this opportunity - she would have been seen as just another "leech on the system" and used as another excuse to cut social services. I know a lot of immigrants, and not all of them legal. But you know what? Every single one of them, all non-white, bust their butts to earn their living.

On the other hand, in the past twenty-odd years I've been in this town, of all the people I've seen begging for money on the street corners, one has been black, there have been no Hispanics or Asians, but I've seen at least a hundred whites - and this is all out of proportion with the local racial makeup. This doesn't mean it's the same everywhere, but it sure as heck shows me that those who think that welfare queens (which was a flat lie told by Reagan) are mostly minorities have a lot to learn.
 

Glen Contrarian

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So your point is we should weaken the white man's power and influence (that is what your corrective attention is all about, no?)to lessen his racist capabilities and as a result his sensibilities, all with the hopes that the formerly repressed, oppressed victims of white racism will somehow not inflict upon the white man what he has done to them, should they ever get the chance?

In a word, naive.

(you do know distinguishing white racism from any other racism is racist, don't you?)
My clearly-made point (which you obviously didn't get) is that we should understand that in ANY culture, the prejudice that is most prevalent, that is the most hurtful, is that which is practiced by those of the dominant race/ethnicity/religion. Since that applies to all cultures in human civilization, I really don't see how you can claim that's racist.
 

ChezC3

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My clearly-made point (which you obviously didn't get) is that we should understand that in ANY culture, the prejudice that is most prevalent, that is the most hurtful, is that which is practiced by those of the dominant race/ethnicity/religion. Since that applies to all cultures in human civilization, I really don't see how you can claim that's racist.
Oh I got your point...It is as I've said, if you were just making an observation you wouldn't have alluded to corrective measures and you wouldn't have gotten into specifics.

If it applies to all, than there is no need to single out the white man's racism. If -- as you said -- your point was "clearly made" no specific example was necessary. "The dominant culture REGARDLESS of which race it is would be the...." -- would have been the way your post would have went, had your intentions been as you claim.


*** Further I'd add that we can forgo the point of claiming white racism is racist and point out that if it is as you claim and it is a universally applied theory than my response to said theory is universal as well. Take out the specific and add the generalization and handy dandy, done.

to sum it up this underlying theme of yours it is that you'd make weak the strong so that they are like the weak in hopes of some equality.

Nietzsche had a term for that -- slave morality. I'll have no part...
 
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Glen Contrarian

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Oh I got your point...It is as I've said, if you were just making an observation you wouldn't have alluded to corrective measures and you wouldn't have gotten into specifics.

If it applies to all, than there is no need to single out the white man's racism. If -- as you said -- your point was "clearly made" no specific example was necessary. "The dominant culture REGARDLESS of which race it is would be the...." -- would have been the way your post would have went, had your intentions been as you claim.


*** Further I'd add that we can forgo the point of claiming white racism is racist and point out that if it is as you claim and it is a universally applied theory than my response to said theory is universal as well. Take out the specific and add the generalization and handy dandy, done.

to sum it up this underlying theme of yours it is that you'd make weak the strong so that they are like the weak in hopes of some equality.

Nietzsche had a term for that -- slave morality. I'll have no part...
When making a point to someone, it's normal to use examples to which that someone can relate, or with which he or she has some experience. Most of the people on this website are American, and so would be expected that I would use examples to which Americans can relate. If I were addressing a Chinese audience, I'd describe how prejudice by the Han against the Hakka or the Tibetans is much more hurtful than racism by the Hakka or the Tibetans. Addressing a Rwandan audience would be trickier, since the Tutsi - the victims of the genocide in the early 1990's - were seen as the higher class and the Hutus were seen as the lower class...but it was the Hutus who rose up and did a number on the Tutsis. Last I read - which was at least a decade ago - the government there still has a higher-than-demographically-expected proportion of Tutsis in government.

Okay? So spare me your trite attempt at rebuttal. We're in America, where racism by whites does turn out to be more hurtful than racism practiced by the other races due to the socioeconomic advantage that whites hold here, so just as the nail that sticks up highest gets the hammer first, the racism by the whites needs to be addressed first and most strongly. If we were in China, I'd be saying the same thing about the Han.
 

ChezC3

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When making a point to someone, it's normal to use examples to which that someone can relate, or with which he or she has some experience. Most of the people on this website are American, and so would be expected that I would use examples to which Americans can relate. If I were addressing a Chinese audience, I'd describe how prejudice by the Han against the Hakka or the Tibetans is much more hurtful than racism by the Hakka or the Tibetans. Addressing a Rwandan audience would be trickier, since the Tutsi - the victims of the genocide in the early 1990's - were seen as the higher class and the Hutus were seen as the lower class...but it was the Hutus who rose up and did a number on the Tutsis. Last I read - which was at least a decade ago - the government there still has a higher-than-demographically-expected proportion of Tutsis in government.

Okay? So spare me your trite attempt at rebuttal. We're in America, where racism by whites does turn out to be more hurtful than racism practiced by the other races due to the socioeconomic advantage that whites hold here, so just as the nail that sticks up highest gets the hammer first, the racism by the whites needs to be addressed first and most strongly. If we were in China, I'd be saying the same thing about the Han.
I see, all us bumpkins needed you to paint a picture..uh huh...

My response was neither trite nor an attempt. It was dead on. You doubling down on this vapid critique of yours has only shown us you cannot see past your own hate or your own misplaced guilt. Reiterating a distinction such as you've done and quantifying it such as you have, don't you see? You've only strengthened my position. You are preaching a slave morality -- nothing more, nothing less. If we are to do something about racism than it shall be about racism. Not white racism or black racism or mongol racism or Han racism or any other fill in the blank racism. Just racism, period.

As a final word, when you've been unmanned, don't go about belittling someone. It compounds your foolishness.
 
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