Yes, Gender Politics Has Gotten This Stupid (1 Viewer)

[NatMorton]

Gay Couple Was Denied I.V.F. Benefits. They Say That’s Discriminatory.​

A former lawyer for New York City and his husband have filed a complaint against the city saying they were denied insurance coverage because of a definition of infertility that excludes gay men.

The couple, Nicholas Maggipinto, 36, and Corey Briskin, 33, claim the policy discriminates against them based on their sex and sexual orientation and that if they were female or in a heterosexual relationship they would have access to the I.V.F. benefits that city employees are entitled to. Mr. Briskin was, until recently, an assistant district attorney.

Under the city’s insurance benefits policy, a covered person is only eligible for such services when they are deemed infertile. The policy defines infertility as the inability to conceive after “12 months of unprotected intercourse,” or intrauterine insemination — a procedure that inserts sperm directly inside a uterus — for a period of time.

Intercourse is not defined in the policy, but the complaint claims New York City and its insurers “have interpreted it to mean intercourse between a man and a female.”

Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/12/nyregion/nyc-ivf-same-sex-couple.html


(Acknowledgement: I don’t have an NYT subscription so I can’t read the full article)

 

[Mr Person]

Do they have a surrogate lined up? Are they requesting any different treatment than another couple with a surrogate lined up?

(Acknowledgement: I don’t have an NYT subscription so I can’t read the full article)

You don't even know what you're punching down at, then? Didn't get past "ewww, gay dudes want to be people. EWW"?

Because otherwise how the hell do you pretend to have any kind of sensible opinion. You

can’t read the full article

 

[NatMorton]

Do they have a surrogate lined up? Are they requesting any different treatment than another couple with a surrogate lined up?



You don't even know what you're punching down at, then?

That would have been in the lede, IMO. Have you read the article?

 

[NatMorton]

Do they have a surrogate lined up? Are they requesting any different treatment than another couple with a surrogate lined up?



You don't even know what you're punching down at, then? Didn't get past "ewww, gay dudes want to be people. EWW"?

Because otherwise how the hell do you pretend to have any kind of sensible opinion. You

Actually, got a full copy and read the entire article. You’re right, there is a surrogate involved. What is not clear from the article is how cases are handled with heterosexual couples.

I would say this, if the law normally covers IVF with a third party for heterosexual couples, then these men have a point. But what they seem to be arguing is that they meet the definition of an “infertile couple,” and therefore IVF should be covered, and that, of course, must be done with a third party. Extending the treatment outside the couple is, I think, new territory.

This couple is infertile not by accident, but by definition. They idea that they are owed a child conceived outside of the relationship seems to be nonsense,

 

[The Stars Tremble]

Anyone willing to put in the effort and expense of raising a child, is "owed" a child by the state. That said, why don't they adopt?

IVF has eugenic benefits and everyone who wants it should be able to access it for minimal cost.

 

[NatMorton]

Anyone willing to put in the effort and expense of raising a child, is "owed" a child by the state. That said, why don't they adopt?

IVF has eugenic benefits and everyone who wants it should be able to access it for minimal cost.

No, they’re not owed that.

 

[Mithrae]

Capitalist mentality in action. Always look out for #1, try to get the best deal you can. "By pursuing his own interest he frequently promotes that of the society more effectually than when he really intends to promote it." What on earth has gender politics got to do with it? Laws and policies should be expected to be tried and tested for every loophole and permutation by either earnest or unscrupulous individuals, just as products and exchanges and public externalities in the marketplace are. Those - such as yourself - who vehemently assure us that lobbying and brib donations towards a government by multi-national corporations is merely "free speech" in action would surely be expected to defend and applaud the far lower-impact lobbying of actual citizens. Or at least, that's what we would expect if we were silly enough to expect even the slightest shred of honesty or consistency...

 

[The Stars Tremble]

No, they’re not owed that.

Raising children costs at least a quarter million dollars, each, plus vast amounts of unpaid time. Raising children is a gift to all society, and without someone somewhere birthing children and someone somewhere raising them, humanity would become extinct.

Damn right we owe parents, and we can even indulge their selfish desire to have children they're genetically related to. IVF is cheap compared to what they're willing to invest.

 

[Schism]

Raising children costs at least a quarter million dollars, each, plus vast amounts of unpaid time. Raising children is a gift to all society, and without someone somewhere birthing children and someone somewhere raising them, humanity would become extinct.

Damn right we owe parents, and we can even indulge their selfish desire to have children they're genetically related to. IVF is cheap compared to what they're willing to invest.

You've presented an emotional plea not a valid argument.

The list of things that progressives believe people are owed is ever growing and endless.

 

[Grim17]

Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/12/nyregion/nyc-ivf-same-sex-couple.html


(Acknowledgement: I don’t have an NYT subscription so I can’t read the full article)

Wow... Just when you think woke-ness can't get any more absurd.

.

 

[The Stars Tremble]

You've presented an emotional plea not a valid argument.

The list of things that progressives believe people are owed is ever growing and endless.

Society owes parents for their money and work. That's not an "emotional plea" it's a fact.

Government represents society and funds parents already (eg tax breaks). It should fund them more is all I'm saying.

You want an emotional plea? Well if government doesn't do something to encourage parenthood you'll have to import adults and dilute American culture. Are you in favor of that?

 

[Captain Adverse]

Society owes parents for their money and work. That's not an "emotional plea" it's a fact.

No it is not. That is your assertion of what "government" is responsible for.

However, humankind has been around several hundred thousand years prior to "government," and it was up to family groups to decide who got taken care of and how.

Government represents society and funds parents already (eg tax breaks). It should fund them more is all I'm saying.

"Tax breaks" is your argument? I see you are from Denmark. Is that one of those Scandinavian governments where taxes are so high on those who work and produce to make sure everyone "gets taken care of?" If so, then it is small wonder you are concerned about such "tax breaks."

You want an emotional plea? Well if government doesn't do something to encourage parenthood you'll have to import adults and dilute American culture.

LOL! Seems like our current government is already encouraging that, despite it being very unpopular amongst the majority of our population.

Are you in favor of that?

I have no problem with LEGAL immigration of most anyone from anywhere.

 

[code1211]

Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/12/nyregion/nyc-ivf-same-sex-couple.html


(Acknowledgement: I don’t have an NYT subscription so I can’t read the full article)

The degree of stupidity on the Left of our political spectrum is astonishing.

 

[Lloyd Christmas]

blah blah blah, Taliban right wing scum have gotten even more ridiculous than they already were pretty much forever

 

[NatMorton]

Raising children costs at least a quarter million dollars, each, plus vast amounts of unpaid time. Raising children is a gift to all society, and without someone somewhere birthing children and someone somewhere raising them, humanity would become extinct.

Damn right we owe parents, and we can even indulge their selfish desire to have children they're genetically related to. IVF is cheap compared to what they're willing to invest.

Then you ought to send them a check if you feel so indebted to them. I do not as I can think of people suffering through greater hardship than the struggles of two men frustrated because they cannot impregnate each other or a third party, and do it on someone else’s dime.

 

[NatMorton]

You've presented an emotional plea not a valid argument.

The list of things that progressives believe people are owed is ever growing and endless.

Not much intellectual distance between the concepts of “want” and “need” from these folks.

 

[NatMorton]

Society owes parents for their money and work. That's not an "emotional plea" it's a fact.

Parents, like just about everyone else in society who are fortunate enough to be good health, owe it to others to provide for themselves and not be a financial burden others; i.e. those who can do should do.

That is how we leave enough to help those truly in need.

 

[The Stars Tremble]

No it is not. That is your assertion of what "government" is responsible for.

However, humankind has been around several hundred thousand years prior to "government," and it was up to family groups to decide who got taken care of and how.

So that's your solution? Let families look after grannies and grandpas until they die in their early 40's.

"Tax breaks" is your argument? I see you are from Denmark. Is that one of those Scandinavian governments where taxes are so high on those who work and produce to make sure everyone "gets taken care of?" If so, then it is small wonder you are concerned about such "tax breaks."

The Scandinavian countries have excellent economies, since contrary to your common sense transfer payments are at worst neutral for the economy. They basically run individual stimulus all the time, but unlike the US they fund it from taxes.

LOL! Seems like our current government is already encouraging that, despite it being very unpopular amongst the majority of our population.

Legal immigration is actually extremely popular (79%) so I can guess where you get your news. The point is though, that the only alternatives to increasing the US birth rate are (a) shrinking working-age population, or (b) continuing immigration, both of which have problems associated.

I have no problem with LEGAL immigration of most anyone from anywhere.

Well good. You don't seem to have much faith in US parenting or schooling, if you're prepared to take people whose childhood was traumatic and included inferior education.

You know that post-industrial economies have a limited need for low-skill workers, right?

 

[The Stars Tremble]

Parents, like just about everyone else in society who are fortunate enough to be good health, owe it to others to provide for themselves and not be a financial burden others; i.e. those who can do should do.

That is how we leave enough to help those truly in need.

You can do both. And those "truly in need" include children.

Children are living in poverty because their parents live in poverty. If you don't think that's the government's problem, then should the government intervene negatively in those families, ie take the children away? Or should government support ONLY those families, creating a Perverse Incentive to all parents not to work hard?

 

[element94]

Then you ought to send them a check if you feel so indebted to them. I do not as I can think of people suffering through greater hardship than the struggles of two men frustrated because they cannot impregnate each other or a third party, and do it on someone else’s dime.

I was wondering what the stupid part was in your title, thanks for supplying it here^.

 

[Crakhobarbie]

The list of things that progressives believe people are owed is ever growing and endless.

The article did not state their political preference... Just sexual. How odd that a conservative such as yourself would make such a random assumption.

 

[Lisa]

No, they’re not owed that.

Because they are gay, unlike a white heterosexual couple?

 

[The Stars Tremble]

I was wondering what the stupid part was in your title, thanks for supplying it here^.

If they have a surrogate woman lined up, they don't need IVF. They need turkey baster technology!

1. If they want the city insurance to pay the surrogate woman, I doubt anyone would get that.
2. If they BOTH have heritable conditions, then they should get IVF on the plan, but it seems unlikely
3. If they've tried turkey basters but the surrogate can't conceive, IVF would be appropriate

There are numerous points about the story which the men or their surrogate are under no obligation to disclose. As with many stories of "stupidity" it's actually in the blinded eye of the beholder.

 

[The Stars Tremble]

Because they are gay, unlike a white heterosexual couple?

I was talking about all parents, so presumably @NatMorton was too.

NM has no solution to children being raised in poverty. It's the parents fault, therefore nobody else has an role.

 

[ElChupacabra]

Here's an article without the paywall:

Gay couple files complaint against New York City over denying IVF coverage

The city’s policy makes accommodations for lesbian couples to receive infertility treatments, but not for gay men, the couple’s filing stated.

www.nbcnews.com