Ya Want Socialized Medicine?

[BubbaBob]

Look at Walter Reed Hospital. The problems there have nothing to do with republicans or democrats...they have to do with the government being in charge of something they can't correctly deal with.

What you see happening at Walter Reed is EXACTLY what you will see with nationalized health care.

Enjoy.

BubbaBob

 

[Iriemon]

Look at Walter Reed Hospital. The problems there have nothing to do with republicans or democrats...they have to do with the government being in charge of something they can't correctly deal with.

What you see happening at Walter Reed is EXACTLY what you will see with nationalized health care.

Enjoy.

BubbaBob

I agree it is a scandal.

Do you think it would be better if they had no health care at all?

 

[dottedmint]

I agree it is a scandal.

Do you think it would be better if they had no health care at all?

What might be better is if there was some system where members of the military could get "vouchers" for medical service.

They could shop around for the medical service that would best suit them and use these vouchers to pay for those services.

But....that is just an idea....

 

[LeftyHenry]

Walter Reed has nothing to do with socialized healthcare. It has to do with the government not giving a **** about their pawns.

Socialized healthcare works. You can't deny that. What's a scandal that you don't hear about is the fact that ****ing Cuba has a life expectancy and infant mortality rate lower than America's and not one person without healthcare, yet is being blockaded from basic commodities, yet America, the richest country in the world with a private healthcare system that puts profits before citizens, cannot provide healthcare for over 40 million people.

 

[LeftyHenry]

What might be better is if there was some system where members of the military could get "vouchers" for medical service.

They could shop around for the medical service that would best suit them and use these vouchers to pay for those services.

But....that is just an idea....

how would that work? Would the vouchers be all the same? Or would the government pay for your care fully?

 

[rivrrat]

Socialized healthcare works. You can't deny that.

Yes, I most certainly *can* deny that.

What's a scandal that you don't hear about is the fact that ****ing Cuba has a life expectancy and infant mortality rate lower than America's and not one person without healthcare, yet is being blockaded from basic commodities, yet America, the richest country in the world with a private healthcare system that puts profits before citizens, cannot provide healthcare for over 40 million people.

You really want to use Cuba as an example of success?

 

[1069]

Yes, I most certainly *can* deny that.


You really want to use Cuba as an example of success?

According to the latest statistics released by the World Health organization, Cuba (along with every other nation in the industrialized world) has lower rates of both infant and maternal morality than the United States does.
Infant and Maternal Mortality rates generally serve as a good litmus test for the quality and functionality of a nation's health care system as a whole.

 

[rivrrat]

According to the latest statistics released by the World Health organization, Cuba (along with every other nation in the industrialized world) has lower rates of both infant and maternal morality than the United States does.
Infant and Maternal Mortality rates generally serve as a good litmus test for the quality and functionality of a nation's health care system as a whole.

I find that incredible to believe given reports like this. But I guess if you are "upper class", that might hold weight.

 

[ptsdkid]

This thread points out the obvious failures of socialized medicine and the constant backing it gets from liberals in congress. Senator Jim Webb was interviewed last night for his thoughts on the problem. His first response was to blame the Bush administration for the problems at Walter Reed. We all know the problems with exercising a socialist program, as it is and has been a systemic disease to the American culture. Jim Webb's response was consistent however, because the first liberal response to hurricane Katrina was to blame it on Bush before considering putting the blame on Louisiana's liberal governor or on liberal mayor Nagin for sitting on their collective hands.

 

[southern_liberal]

Yes, I most certainly *can* deny that.


You really want to use Cuba as an example of success?

It's still pathetic that the richest nation in the world have an inadequate health system.

 

[WI Crippler]

It's still pathetic that the richest nation in the world have an inadequate health system.

The reason we are the richest nation is because our government isn't bogged down by providing for its citizens things they are capable of providing themselves. And I say "are capable" because, unless you are mentally retarded or physically impaired, the opportunities exist for everyone.

Oh and the comparisons to Cuba aer downright misleading. to compare the tiny island, that does not have the immigration ( legal and illegal ) levels, or the base population level of America is completely unfair when debating the issue. The dynamics of both countries are so different, its like comparing apples to elephants.

 

[rivrrat]

It's still pathetic that the richest nation in the world have an inadequate health system.

What's inadequate about being responsible for your own healthcare? The richest nation in the world pioneers new treatments, procedures, and drugs. We can be leaders in those areas *because* of our system. Other countries ride on our coat tails and then have the arrogance to claim our system fails or is inadequate?

How is it inadequate? I can receive the best care in the world here in the US. I know that here in the US, heroic measures to save lives are the norm. (not so in countries with socialized healthcare) I know that my *quality* of life is of importance to physicians here in the US. I know that they will recommend treatments that will get me better faster and with less pain or discomfort. That's not the case in countries like Canada or France, where they're going to use the cheapest method that is still effective, despite how much discomfort, or downtime it will cause me. They are going to use minimal medicine, minimal treatment and it take a crap load longer to receive it too. Socialized medicine is great for routine care, but is severely lacking when it comes to cutting edge, high quality care.

I'll take the cutting edge, high quality care thanks.

 

[LeftyHenry]

Yes, I most certainly *can* deny that.


You really want to use Cuba as an example of success?

Are you actually serious with that? Did you bother to read your links? Or did you just type "Cuba is an evil dictatorship" into google and click on the first two links? The first one is THE CUBAN AMERICAN ASSOCIATION is that serious? Yeah of course the cuban american mafia who had owned slave plantations back in the good old Batista days and fled as the workers and peasants and former slaves took over the land would really love Castro. The second source is a blog. That is hardly a reliable source my friend.
The UN and encarta encyclopedia are a reliable sources. Compare Cuba to countries of similiar region but different system and see the results.

http://mdgs.un.org/unsd/mdg/SeriesDetail.aspx?srid=668&crid=
http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/refpages/RefEdList.aspx?refid=210113894

there are also other sources to that directly contradict yours

http://www.cartadecuba.com/healthcare_facts.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health...the_Cuban_health_system_in_the_United_Kingdom

 

[rivrrat]

unstats | Millennium Indicators
Hospital – number of hospital beds in each country - List of Items - MSN Encarta

there are also other sources to that directly contradict yours

Healthcare Facts
Healthcare in Cuba - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I see neither a contradiction, nor a basis for implying that Cuba's national healthcare system is superior.

 

[LeftyHenry]

Life expectancy
Total 77.4 years (2006 estimate)
Female 79.8 years (2006 estimate)
Male 75.1 years (2006 estimate)
Infant mortality rate 6 deaths per 1,000 live births (2006 estimate)
Population per physician 169 people (2004)
Population per hospital bed 204 people (2003

Life expectancy
Total 77.8 years (2006 estimate)
Female 80.8 years (2006 estimate)
Male 75 years (2006 estimate)
Infant mortality rate 6 deaths per 1,000 live births (2006 estimate)
Population per physician 182 people (2004)
Population per hospital bed 303 people (2003)

so people here live on average like .4 years longer (this is expected. Now compare Cuba to a similiar country like Jamaica or Haiti or the Domincan Republic and fall out of your chair at how much Cuba blows those three countries away) while they have 2/3 the amount of population per hospital bed and 100 less people per doctor.

So, the obvious conclusion of any sane human being, is that if one little tiny blockaded island in Latin America gets the same results if not better results than the worlds wealthiest country, there is a clear failing in the system of the latter.

 

[rathi]

American healthcare is miserable. Joke. Not only do we lag behind the socialists, but we actually pay more for our healthcare. Our system sucks so much that it is less efficient than France's by a wide margin.

 

[niftydrifty]

Look at Walter Reed Hospital. The problems there have nothing to do with republicans or democrats...they have to do with the government being in charge of something they can't correctly deal with.

What you see happening at Walter Reed is EXACTLY what you will see with nationalized health care.

Enjoy.

BubbaBob

There is a big, big problem with BubbaBob's argument. BubbaBob points at the problems at one facility. What about the VHA? The VHA is a successful system, and is run by the government. The VHA is an example of successful government-run health care, right here in the US.

Furthermore, have there always been problems at Walter Reed Hospital? Or, just, um, lately?

 

[Navy Pride]

Look at Walter Reed Hospital. The problems there have nothing to do with republicans or democrats...they have to do with the government being in charge of something they can't correctly deal with.

What you see happening at Walter Reed is EXACTLY what you will see with nationalized health care.

Enjoy.

BubbaBob

It would be 10 times worse then that my friend..Ask all the Canadians who come to the U.S. to get their health care....

 

[LeftyHenry]

It would be 10 times worse then that my friend..Ask all the Canadians who come to the U.S. to get their health care....

wtf? who? The American Ambassador to Canada?:lol: