Wyoming stands up for coal with threat to sue states that refuse to buy it

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Wyoming stands up for coal with threat to sue states that refuse to buy it

Republican governor says measure sends message that Wyoming is ‘prepared to bring litigation to protect her interests’

www.theguardian.com

Republican governor says measure sends message that Wyoming is ‘prepared to bring litigation to protect her interests’


Wyoming is faced by a transition to renewable energy that’s gathering pace across America, but it has now come up with a novel and controversial plan to protect its mining industry – sue other states that refuse to take its coal.
A new state law has created a $1.2m fund to be used by Wyoming’s governor to take legal action against other states that opt to power themselves with clean energy such as solar and wind, in order to meet targets to tackle the climate crisis, rather than burn Wyoming’s coal.
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Interesting move. Can someone or some corporation be forced to buy something that they want to stop buying? Can a state sue them if they refuse?

Mumble mumble "muh freedumbs"....mumble mumble, "you can't tell me to take something"...mumble mumble "we'll sue you if you don't buy our coal"....mumble mumble--- What was that about freedom again?

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

If you live in California your car must pass California emission standards. For many years cars sold in California had exhaust systems different from every other state. I'm not sure that's still true but back then if you wanted to register a car from another state you had to modify it to pass inspection or sell it out of state and buy a California car.

I often vacation at a friend's place in Oregon. When we drive to California we sometimes get stopped and asked to leave any fruit we may have behind. Draw your own conclusions.

I think somewhere around 2008 or 2010 the major car manufacturers just decided it made more sense to manufacture 50-state compliant vehicles and made all of them compliant with California.
It was a case of the state with some of the most stringent pollution laws was using policy that is beneficial for air quality programs everywhere, i.e. if you adopt CA air quality standards your OWN air quality in your state will improve.
Some will argue that's political, and part of it might be but I daresay the bulk of it was marketing, it makes better business sense to make one product for the entire country.

 

[JacksinPA]

I fail to see even the legal question involved in one legal entity (WY) using the courts to force other legal entities (states) to purchase a product that they don't need or want. This will be in the courts for years. This is a commercial matter become political. The only ones who will win here are the WY politicians & the lawyers. Since it involves multiple states, there could wind up a small army of lawyers. So this could be a conspiracy by the lawyers to drum up billable hours for their members, paid for by their big coal company clients.

A free market depends on factors such as supply & demand. If that interchange stops for any reason, that will become a problem. But this is the future demise of coal.

 

[reflechissez]

At a rally in the Villages, where there are more golf carts than people.......

That is friggin' hilarious.

 

[calamity]

Wyoming stands up for coal with threat to sue states that refuse to buy it

Republican governor says measure sends message that Wyoming is ‘prepared to bring litigation to protect her interests’

www.theguardian.com

Republican governor says measure sends message that Wyoming is ‘prepared to bring litigation to protect her interests’


Wyoming is faced by a transition to renewable energy that’s gathering pace across America, but it has now come up with a novel and controversial plan to protect its mining industry – sue other states that refuse to take its coal.
A new state law has created a $1.2m fund to be used by Wyoming’s governor to take legal action against other states that opt to power themselves with clean energy such as solar and wind, in order to meet targets to tackle the climate crisis, rather than burn Wyoming’s coal.
==========================================================================
Interesting move. Can someone or some corporation be forced to buy something that they want to stop buying? Can a state sue them if they refuse?

Are these states violating signed contracts?

 

[Lisa]

Wow.

As long as it is very white.

 

[JacksinPA]

Are these states violating signed contracts?

I don't know. They could get damages for breach of contract but I don't think you can force anyone to buy something that they no longer need. This coal market & the thousands of jobs, even towns, that depended on it in a pretty sparse state are going to go away.

 

[Loulit01]

I think somewhere around 2008 or 2010 the major car manufacturers just decided it made more sense to manufacture 50-state compliant vehicles and made all of them compliant with California.
It was a case of the state with some of the most stringent pollution laws was using policy that is beneficial for air quality programs everywhere, i.e. if you adopt CA air quality standards your OWN air quality in your state will improve.
Some will argue that's political, and part of it might be but I daresay the bulk of it was marketing, it makes better business sense to make one product for the entire country.

Good. Glad to hear it.

 

[Lursa]

Then there are all the Trumpists in other coal-producing states: WV, KY, PA. The end of a centuries-old technology will mean a significant societal shift in those places.

It's been coming for at least 40 years so I really dont give a shit about them. They've had plenty of time to plan, prepare, transition, diversify, etc.

"Godby said lawmakers privately acknowledge that coal is in a steep decline that will force either cuts in services or wildly unpopular tax increases, but that fighting for the industry publicly has become a litmus test for the Republican-voting electorate."​

​

“The lawsuits will fulfill that rhetoric because it will look like the state is pushing back against the leftists,” he said. “But it’s symbolic, the fight is over – even if you win a court case it’s a pyrrhic victory because no – one really wants the coal. The losses to the state are going to be so large that the rationale is to try to postpone that for as long as possible.”​

Wyoming stands up for coal with threat to sue states that refuse to buy it

Republican governor says measure sends message that Wyoming is ‘prepared to bring litigation to protect her interests’

www.theguardian.com

It doesnt really sound like they have any real legal grounds for the suit.

 

[Lisa]

I don't know. They could get damages for breach of contract but I don't think you can force anyone to buy something that they no longer need. This coal market & the thousands of jobs, even towns, that depended on it in a pretty sparse state are going to go away.

What happened to the unregulated free market and rugged competing capitalists allowing the market to decide, or does that only apply when it is politically expedient?

 

[Lisa]

Addendum to #35,

Conservatives had multiple herds of misspelled kittens when they were forced by the ACA to have health insurance, which we all use at one point or another in our lives but somehow they don't mind being forced to buy an outdated polluting energy source such as coal, despite the fact that there are other better energy sources available. When will the TEAparty reemerge to protest this legislation or aren't we supposed to be outraged when the government is in cahoots with a for-profit private business to protect their market share and profits? That hypocritical action is fascist.

 

[Peter]

The UK will stop using coal for power generation in 2025.

Countdown to 2025: Tracking the UK coal phase out - Carbon Brief

We've created a tracker to monitor the UK coal phase out. The government plans to close all coal-fired power plants by 2025.

www.carbonbrief.org

Coals days are numbered.

 

[Jason Warfield]

So...a state government (WY) wants to force power companies to purchase their coal? So, that government wants to control the marketplace by forcing it to purchase its coal.

Looks like GOP-Socialism to me....

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Wyoming stands up for coal with threat to sue states that refuse to buy it

Republican governor says measure sends message that Wyoming is ‘prepared to bring litigation to protect her interests’

www.theguardian.com

Republican governor says measure sends message that Wyoming is ‘prepared to bring litigation to protect her interests’


Wyoming is faced by a transition to renewable energy that’s gathering pace across America, but it has now come up with a novel and controversial plan to protect its mining industry – sue other states that refuse to take its coal.
A new state law has created a $1.2m fund to be used by Wyoming’s governor to take legal action against other states that opt to power themselves with clean energy such as solar and wind, in order to meet targets to tackle the climate crisis, rather than burn Wyoming’s coal.
==========================================================================
Interesting move. Can someone or some corporation be forced to buy something that they want to stop buying? Can a state sue them if they refuse?

Well as a matter of fact the Supreme Court ruled just that with Obamacare.

 

[AFrench2]

Well as a matter of fact the Supreme Court ruled just that with Obamacare.

Obamacare is a federal program. Wyoming is not the federal government. You are trying to compare the power of the Federal Government to levy taxes on its people against the power of...****ing Wyoming...to do anything.

 

[BlueTex]

I said nothing about "state of origin". I said "from buying something they might want". The state in my question is forbidding it's citizens from buying something that comes from another state. That means any state.

Again, should a state be able to forbid their citizens and businesses from buying something they might want just because it comes from another state?

Hell, I didn't even mention coal. Put anything you want in the law...how about steel. Should a state be able to forbid their citizens and businesses from buying something they might want just because it comes from another state? Or, how about furniture? Or milk?

My question is about whether a state should be able to pass such a law...not about the product or service.

Interesting question.. Should a state be able to forbid or limit wind and solar power in their states electrical grid? Asking for Texans..

 

[JacksinPA]

Interesting question.. Should a state be able to forbid or limit wind and solar power in their states electrical grid? Asking for Texans..

A number of states charge a surcharge on the electric bills of people who have gone to either solar, wind or geothermal. They have to have an ROI on all the infrastructure they invested in producing & getting the electricity to them.

 

[mrjurrs]

Wyoming stands up for coal with threat to sue states that refuse to buy it

Republican governor says measure sends message that Wyoming is ‘prepared to bring litigation to protect her interests’

www.theguardian.com

Republican governor says measure sends message that Wyoming is ‘prepared to bring litigation to protect her interests’


Wyoming is faced by a transition to renewable energy that’s gathering pace across America, but it has now come up with a novel and controversial plan to protect its mining industry – sue other states that refuse to take its coal.
A new state law has created a $1.2m fund to be used by Wyoming’s governor to take legal action against other states that opt to power themselves with clean energy such as solar and wind, in order to meet targets to tackle the climate crisis, rather than burn Wyoming’s coal.
==========================================================================
Interesting move. Can someone or some corporation be forced to buy something that they want to stop buying? Can a state sue them if they refuse?

F**k WY.

See you in court. Is WY going to pay for these court costs themselves or will they be using tax revenue provided by other states to fund this?

 

[JacksinPA]

F**k WY.

See you in court. Is WY going to pay for these court costs themselves or will they be using tax revenue provided by other states to fund this?

Lawyers are very expensive.

 

[Glitch]

Another question: Should a state be able to forbid their citizens and businesses from buying something they might want just because it comes from another state?

There is nothing within the US Constitution that forbids a State from denying its citizens or businesses from buying something they might want coming from another State. States are specifically prohibited from colluding with each other, or entering into some sort of "agreement or compact," but they are not prohibited from boycotting each other. As we have already seen with several States.

Attempting to enforce such prohibitions would be virtually impossible since States do not control the Internet, USPS, or any of the shipping companies.

 

[Glitch]

The issue isn’t the state of origin. If NY blocked sale of coal specifically from Wyoming that would arguably be actionable. But a general ban on coal is probably not.

Any State can prohibit any product they like, from any source they like. There is nothing in the US Constitution that prohibits it.

The problem with Wyoming is that it has no sea access. Alaska has 66 operating coal mines with 2.8 billion tons of coal in reserve. We have no problem selling our coal to China and other nations where coal is still very much in demand, but that is because we have access to the sea.

 

[Gaius46]

Any State can prohibit any product they like, from any source they like. There is nothing in the US Constitution that prohibits it.

The problem with Wyoming is that it has no sea access. Alaska has 66 operating coal mines with 2.8 billion tons of coal in reserve. We have no problem selling our coal to China and other nations where coal is still very much in demand, but that is because we have access to the sea.

The Commerce Clause is generally interpreted to deny states the power to ban goods and services from other states. That’s called the Dormant Commerce Clause. NY for example once had a law on its books that outlawed shipments of wine to NY residents from out of state wineries, while allowing shipments from NY based wineries. That law was found unconstitutional under the Dormant Commerce Clause.

Banning importation of coal from some states but not others or from all states while allowing in state coal producers to sell coal would likely similarly fail under the Dormant Commerce Clause.

 

[bongsaway]

Wyoming stands up for coal with threat to sue states that refuse to buy it

Republican governor says measure sends message that Wyoming is ‘prepared to bring litigation to protect her interests’

www.theguardian.com

Republican governor says measure sends message that Wyoming is ‘prepared to bring litigation to protect her interests’


Wyoming is faced by a transition to renewable energy that’s gathering pace across America, but it has now come up with a novel and controversial plan to protect its mining industry – sue other states that refuse to take its coal.
A new state law has created a $1.2m fund to be used by Wyoming’s governor to take legal action against other states that opt to power themselves with clean energy such as solar and wind, in order to meet targets to tackle the climate crisis, rather than burn Wyoming’s coal.
==========================================================================
Interesting move. Can someone or some corporation be forced to buy something that they want to stop buying? Can a state sue them if they refuse?

This is free enterprise, the markets taking care of themselves, capitalist america for god's sake. Does any republican find this even a little bit funny? I think it's pure lunacy. This is the party that wants to govern america? With what? A gun to our heads? Buy our coal or else!!

 

[bongsaway]

Another question: Should a state be able to forbid their citizens and businesses from buying something they might want just because it comes from another state?

Ask your republican friends, this is the kind of stupid shit they push. Hey wyoming, just cancel the other states if they won't buy your coal.

 

[JacksinPA]

No, we don't want coal. Its dirty, polluting, and it is centuries old tech.

Too bad Wyoming, we don't need ya.

Don't forget the need to safely dispose of the toxic fly ash formed after coal is burned. Coal is fossilized plant matter, so it contains all the minerals that those trees & other plants absorbed during their lives. Burning coal concentrates these minerals into the ash. Mercury, lead, you name it.