Wrestlemania? Too long? Too over the top?

[Lovebug]

As far as I can remember, the last time I watched an entire pro wrestling match was back when Andre the Giant was still around.

Me too. I thought that was so cool and hardly ever missed a game. Then someone told me it was all fake, and I was busy with the job and all, and there it went.

 

[Peter King]

It seems you are threatened by any form of competition against WWE. WWE was at its best when it was going head-on with WCW.

IMO WWE is in a vulnerable spot. Vince McMahon is getting older and focusing his money and time on the XFL.

I don't think you realize how troubled the WWE is right now. For the past few years, they had a part-time Champion in Brock Lesnar that literally wrestled once a month. They have a lot of talent but not box office talent.

Kofi Kingston as champion? LOL! He is a mid-carder. They are really desperate. I guess Daniel Bryan is injured again?

I am not threatened, I am happy for good competition. Monday night wars were great, but I doubt that AEW will go to the level. And even then the WWE just shut down the competition by buying it. I am not worried that this will happen with AEW, but the WWE will still buy all the talent away from other companies.

And I hated Brock, he wrestled way too few times, and almost only on Pay per Views. And Kofi Kingston was a great story, but he has to be "relieved" of that title pretty soon with a bigger (name) wrestler. Bring on Braun and have him flatten New Day.

 

[Bucky]

I am not threatened, I am happy for good competition. Monday night wars were great, but I doubt that AEW will go to the level. And even then the WWE just shut down the competition by buying it. I am not worried that this will happen with AEW, but the WWE will still buy all the talent away from other companies.

And I hated Brock, he wrestled way too few times, and almost only on Pay per Views. And Kofi Kingston was a great story, but he has to be "relieved" of that title pretty soon with a bigger (name) wrestler. Bring on Braun and have him flatten New Day.

WHAT A SHOW!

Double or Nothing delivered. You can tell the crowd was in it.

Bret Hart, Chris Jericho, Cody Rhodes, and the debut of John Moxley:

 

[Crosscheck]

Years back I was in Fresno waiting to board a plane. We had to wait until all the arriving passengers disembarked.
Watching one by one your usual passengers coming off the plane I began seeing these huge guys all come off and walk right pass me.
It wasn't football season so I knew they weren't some football team. What the heck? The guy in front of me tells one of them good luck tonight and then he turns to me and says they are here for a wrestling event tonight.

So it was interesting to see maybe 8 or 10 of these wrestlers all riding together without any visible animosity that in a few hours would be mortal enemies.

 

[Bucky]

The Undertaker Goldberg fight was one of the worst matches I have seen in a while. Both wrestlers looked completely gassed and the match was barely 10 minutes.

 

[Peter King]

The Undertaker Goldberg fight was one of the worst matches I have seen in a while. Both wrestlers looked completely gassed and the match was barely 10 minutes.

Matt Riddle really let loose on Goldberg, calling him unsafe, dangerous and a liability. He might be talking about when Goldberg tried the jackhammer and crashed the Undertaker on his head/neck area.

Now to be honest, Riddle has never been a fan of Goldberg but he really let Goldberg have it last night. And remember, Riddle is working for the WWE's brand NXT.

Bill Goldberg is also no fan of Riddle as he has blocked him on Twitter. It will not stop Riddle though and as his tweets get to the media for somehow (maybe due to their inflammatory nature) Goldberg will still hear about them.

But you are right, the match was horrendous. He should have never wrestled such an out of shape wrestler as Goldberg. Now Undertaker might not be a lot less rusty but Goldberg's last match was more than 2 years ago. And even that was a stretch IMHO, he was terrible then too.

And for those who do not know who Matt Riddle is

 

[Bucky]

Matt Riddle really let loose on Goldberg, calling him unsafe, dangerous and a liability. He might be talking about when Goldberg tried the jackhammer and crashed the Undertaker on his head/neck area.

Now to be honest, Riddle has never been a fan of Goldberg but he really let Goldberg have it last night. And remember, Riddle is working for the WWE's brand NXT.

Bill Goldberg is also no fan of Riddle as he has blocked him on Twitter. It will not stop Riddle though and as his tweets get to the media for somehow (maybe due to their inflammatory nature) Goldberg will still hear about them.

But you are right, the match was horrendous. He should have never wrestled such an out of shape wrestler as Goldberg. Now Undertaker might not be a lot less rusty but Goldberg's last match was more than 2 years ago. And even that was a stretch IMHO, he was terrible then too.

And for those who do not know who Matt Riddle is

Super Showdown was a major dude.

Meanwhile Double or Nothing was a major success. Dean Ambrose, now John Moxley was underutilized in the WWE.

 

[FreedomFromAll]

Honest question: How old are you guys?

 

[Peter King]

Honest question: How old are you guys?

Old enough to have seen the first Wrestlemania's and to have gone through the Raw/War era and the ECW era. To have seen the first few Undertaker matches to right here and right now. So pretty much old enough to enjoy the show and the theater that that kind of wrestling brings.

Why? Are people of my age not allowed their entertainment? I would rather watch that fake reality than a lot of actual reality fake shows IMHO.

 

[Peter King]

Super Showdown was a major dude.

Meanwhile Double or Nothing was a major success. Dean Ambrose, now John Moxley was underutilized in the WWE.

Yup, Super Showdown was a major dud. Why can they not learn from their NXT Takeover Shows and realize Super is not always better. They are so crazy for PPV's that they forget to put the quality in their shows. And Dean Ambrose was injured for a very long time. Normally they just throw such wrestlers under the bus in the last part of their contract, I am happy they did not do this with Ambrose.

But let us be honest, there is enough talent on the WWE roster to hold 6 shows equal or better to Double or Nothing, yet they keep getting it wrong time and time again. That is why there are not that many NXT takeover shows, they do not have enough wrestlers to do their shows 8 times a year so they are able to spread it around.

For example big men are mostly bad guys used for the pleasure and the entertainment of the McMahon family. A bit less McMahon would already go a big way. And this Super Showdown **** should be terminated, it is a terrible idea. And the winner of the 50 men over the top dud was just a bad choice, a really bad choice.

I would love to see a Hell in a Cell show or an elimination chamber with guys like Black against Baron Corbin, Bray Wyatt against Bobby Lashley, Kofi Kingston against Kevin Owens in a Hell in a Cell show or an extreme rules match, Samoa Joe against Dolph Ziggler in a last man standing match, Asuka against Lacey Evans, Bayley against Charlotte Flair, Velveteen Dream against Daniel Bryant and Braun Strowman against Lars Sullivan as bragging rights for the biggest 2 really active monsters on the Roster in an Ambulance match.

You know, good old fun rather than keep relying on the same few matches with no imagination. Like that fake wrestler McMahon against the Big Dog or another lucha house party against Lars Sullivan monstrosity.

 

[FreedomFromAll]

Old enough to have seen the first Wrestlemania's and to have gone through the Raw/War era and the ECW era. To have seen the first few Undertaker matches to right here and right now. So pretty much old enough to enjoy the show and the theater that that kind of wrestling brings.

Why? Are people of my age not allowed their entertainment? I would rather watch that fake reality than a lot of actual reality fake shows IMHO.

I used to watch Portland wrestling ever Saturday (ie the birth place of what became what you came to know as pro wrestling), hell even went to some in person. But I was a kid back then. That was before that crap that you mentioned. It was back when they still cut themselves with razor blades every night. Look up (off of the top of my head) "Rowdy" Roddy Piper, Playboy Buddy Rose, Mr. Fuji, Dutch Savage, Jesse the body Ventura they were all wrestling when the Undertaker was not the undertaker yet. He played a half dozen other characters before then.

Of course you know that it is all fake. I mean you cannot get past the porn level acting and the even worse writing. All in all its all very cheesy.

What do you get out of it as an adult?

 

[Bucky]

Great, have you seen the wall to wall talent that the WWE has? And the wall to wall coverage the WWE has?

Sure AEW has some good wrestlers, but most are former WWE stars. Some popular ones but never really where the big eternal stars. Now if CM Punk goes in at AEW, maybe there is something that makes me watch it. But so far there is nothing that says to me it is must watch TV. And to be honest, with all the stars sometimes, especially Raw is boring as hell but then when it comes to it they have the stars and matches that are effing marvellous.

The only WWE show that I do not watch is 205, just does not interest me that much.

And I couldn't care any less if Shahid Khan has twice as much money was McMahon. He does not have shows on the same level and networks as the WWE has. Sure it will be fun if there are some alternatives for wrestlers but so far all the light is being sucked out of the wrestling universe by WWE. Not that this is a universally good thing. I have been discussing on another forum how much I disagree with the WWE's policy on health care and independent contractors (because they are not, that is a lie), but the WWE for wrestlers is THE place to be. Love it or hate it.

I am not sure you saw AEW's PPV Full Gear, but the Unsanctioned, Lights Out Match between Jon Moxley (Dean Ambrose) and Kenny Omega was one of the most insane matches ever.

After the barbed wire assault left Moxley bleeding from the side of his face, Omega grabbed a board covered with mousetraps. The plan backfired as Omega was slammed on the board. Moxley brought out chains, slamming Omega on them repeatedly before placing one in the mouth of Moxley and wrenching back with a submission. After Moxley brought an ice pick into the ring, Omega fought back, eventually hanging Moxley from the side of the ring by the neck using the chain. Omega then brought out a bag of broken glass from the table Moxley had driven him through weeks ago. Omega hit a powerbomb into the glass but still couldn't get a pin. Moxley then had to crawl through broken glass to escape a Sharpshooter. After using the ice pick on the forehead of Moxley, Omega called out The Young Bucks and Adam Page, demanding they bring out a net of barbed wire. Moxley suplexed Omega into the barbed wire, with both men landing in the netting. After they were assisted out, Omega hit a V-Trigger through the Full Gear set. They ended up back in the ring, with Moxley hitting the Paradigm Shift in the glass, but again finding himself unable to get the pin. Moxley then cut away the padding on the ring apron. Omega missed a Phoenix Splash, landing on the exposed wood. Moxley followed up with a Paradigm Shift to get the pinfall. A spot fest, pure and simple, but one that paid off a lengthy program between Moxley and Omega.

AEW Full Gear results, recap, grades: Jon Moxley-Kenny Omega violence, heel turn highlight solid show - CBSSports.com

 

[Peter King]

I am not sure you saw AEW's PPV Full Gear, but the Unsanctioned, Lights Out Match between Jon Moxley (Dean Ambrose) and Kenny Omega was one of the most insane matches ever.



AEW Full Gear results, recap, grades: Jon Moxley-Kenny Omega violence, heel turn highlight solid show - CBSSports.com

View attachment 67268021

I have never been a big fan of these weapons, tacks, bleeding, etc. etc. kind of matches. I like spectacular matches and great leaps/jumps/crashes/etc. but the weapons stuff is not my thing.

The best show almost on the WWE is NXT IMO, great wrestling and great talent.

 

[Slyfox696]

I am not sure you saw AEW's PPV Full Gear, but the Unsanctioned, Lights Out Match between Jon Moxley (Dean Ambrose) and Kenny Omega was one of the most insane matches ever.



AEW Full Gear results, recap, grades: Jon Moxley-Kenny Omega violence, heel turn highlight solid show - CBSSports.com

View attachment 67268021

It sounds like it was a joke of a match, which those things often are.

I have never been a big fan of these weapons, tacks, bleeding, etc. etc. kind of matches.

Me neither because, with VERY few exceptions, that stuff is not real professional wrestling. It is usually glorified stunt men who lack actual professional wrestling ability trying to get over using cheap stunts.

Almost anything is fair game in wrestling, as long as it is used correctly. Usually matches like that are not used correctly.