wow .. so this is "Liberation" ... the american terrorism

[cnredd]

Were Americans the only targets of the 'oh-so-oppressed', I might be inclined to concede more than a point in our own complicity, which I do, but the intolerance of extremists extends far beyond America and Israel.

It would seem to me that they're at odds with everyone not them and even those who are. All it takes is a sundry skimming of the news to see the treatment of their own kind, e.g. Darfur, etc, the not their own kind, Buddhists, Coptics, etc. to realise this is the case.

Agreed VTA, I posted this a couple of weeks ago...i guess it bears repeating.

I’m going to go “big picture” here...

If I snapped my fingers and EVERY foreign soldier in Iraq was gone,
they will still want us dead because we are in Afghanistan…

If I snapped my fingers and EVERY foreign soldier in Afghanistan was
gone, they will still want us dead because we have bases and people
on Muslim land…

If I snapped my fingers and EVERY non-Muslim & every foreigner
left Muslim land, they will still want us dead because we associate
with the suppressive regimes in Muslim lands…

If I snapped my fingers and EVERY nation stopped associating with
the suppressive regimes in Muslim lands, they will still want us dead
because we support Israel…

If I snapped my fingers and EVERY nation in the world stopped
recognizing and supporting Israel, and every Jew in Israel, and
indeed, the world died, and a new Palestinian nation rises, they
will STILL want us dead because the Wahabbism interpretation of
the Koran says that we are infidels...and infidels must die.

Anyone who thinks otherwise will die...anyone who speaks out against
this mantra will die...anyone who assists the infidels will die.

There are two ways to confront this...
1)change that ideology...By the time that would happen, there
would be no one left but the Wahabbists.
2)force...sucky proposition, but better than the first.

And I AM referring to the extremists...not the Ummah in general....

 

[Missouri Mule]

btw , If you mean Islamic and arab culture , then you are wrong ... Arab and Muslim dont despise you , they despise your foreign policies and U.S habitual veto for Israel .... you should not generalize ... the majority dont " despise" america .. ok :2wave:

That really doesn't matter. They are killing human beings in the name of their "God." But the point is that since our government is of the people it is essentially about us. If they don't like our governmental policies, they don't like us as individuals. And I ask again, why do they want to come here? I'm willing to let them drink their oil. Just stay out of here. I'll stay out of their lands and they can keep sawing heads off or whatever other activities they do to entertain themselves. That's a fair trade.

 

[cnredd]

That really doesn't matter. They are killing human beings in the name of their "God." But the point is that since our government is of the people it is essentially about us. If they don't like our governmental policies, they don't like us as individuals. And I ask again, why do they want to come here? I'm willing to let them drink their oil. Just stay out of here. I'll stay out of their lands and they can keep sawing heads off or whatever other activities they do to entertain themselves. That's a fair trade.

That's pretty narrow-minded thinking...I think you have the impression that there are Islamic meetings held at football stadiums on Tuesday night where they all discuss how they all hate America...Far from it.

Jeffrey Dahmer...According to your logic, his family and friends should be rounded up and deported.

Your "guilt by association" logic is perverted and distorted.

 

[VTA]

you also Misinterpreted me ...... It surely doesnt justify killing civilians americans or non americans ... what I meant when they fight back the soldiers and only the soldiers ........ and all the bombing that u mentioned , I also consider them terrorism ... U just Misinterpreted me bro

Well, I have no problem offering an apology to you; I wouldn't want to offend you or anyone. But I will disagree as to why extremists do as they do. They've been doing it for a long time and they've been doing it without regard. There are too many instances of their actions not directed at Americans and Israelis to ignore there might exist a problem with their thinking.

 

[Missouri Mule]

That's pretty narrow-minded thinking...I think you have the impression that there are Islamic meetings held at football stadiums on Tuesday night where they all discuss how they all hate America...Far from it.

Jeffrey Dahmer...According to your logic, his family and friends should be rounded up and deported.

Your "guilt by association" logic is perverted and distorted.

If you had a cancer in your body would you just be satisfied with the surgeon removing only the visible cancerl cells? Would you not also use radiation and chemo to eradicate the remaining unseen cancer cells?

Until proven otherwise, I will see all Muslims as potential terrorists because the arithmetic proves it. 99,9999997% of all terrorism committed in the world today is by Muslims. Just because I don't drink a daily beverage of arsenic and might not be killed by it doesn't mean that I would ignore its dangers. I posted in another thread just today the actual quote by a Muslim preacher where he said that he was a Muslim and naturally that meant he was a terrorist. That he didn't want to die in bed "like an old woman"; he wanted to go out of this life in "pieces." Islam is not the religion of "peace"; it is the religion of "pieces" -- by their own words.

And btw, if they hate our western "decadence" so much, why ARE they coming here? It doesn't make any sense.

 

[cnredd]

And btw, if they hate our western "decadence" so much, why ARE they coming here? It doesn't make any sense.

This sentence NEGATES your biased opinion....

You want an actual answer?....Because the ones that are coming here do NOT hate our western "decadence", that's why they ARE coming here.

We have a Muslim population of over 5 million in the USA with no attacks on American soil....Shouldn't that give you a clue that its not ALL of them?

This is broad-brush to the extreme....

 

[tiktok]

Well, I have no problem offering an apology to you; I wouldn't want to offend you or anyone. But I will disagree as to why extremists do as they do. They've been doing it for a long time and they've been doing it without regard. There are too many instances of their actions not directed at Americans and Israelis to ignore there might exist a problem with their thinking.

VTA, forgive my not responding to your thoughtful response... Unlike the gang on 3 yours is worthy of considerable consideration and I would not insult your intelligence with a reaction.

That said, it did occur to me while reading your post: has he read Chomsky... have you heard his lectures?

I only ask because you serve this term "extremist" as if it were a dish only for the Arabs. There is ample evidence to the contrary that would be better coming from Mr Chomski than I.

If you are interested I have one of his better lectures on my HD which I would be happy to seed to you over Bit torrent.

Do let me know.

 

[Missouri Mule]

This sentence NEGATES your biased opinion....

You want an actual answer?....Because the ones that are coming here do NOT hate our western "decadence", that's why they ARE coming here.

We have a Muslim population of over 5 million in the USA with no attacks on American soil....Shouldn't that give you a clue that its not ALL of them?

This is broad-brush to the extreme....

You obviously have been on another planet the past few weeks. The homicide maniacal monsters in London were second generation (mainly) Pakistani Muslims. But you probably didn't hear about that. And you obviously believe that American Muslims are somehow different that their British cousins. Remind me to stay away from you when the bombs start going off. I don't want to be around any fence sitters. They make very good targets for the terrorists.

 

[mustafa]

That really doesn't matter. They are killing human beings in the name of their "God." .

thats exactly why I hate terrorist more than you do , they are killing people in the name of God , and in the name of Islam ... but you have to understand they are far from what Islam preaches .. they claim to be muslims but the truth is they are as far as it gets from Islam ...

Until proven otherwise, I will see all Muslims as potential terrorists because the arithmetic proves it. 99,9999997% of all terrorism committed in the world today is by Muslims

yes I agree , but you forgot one thing ... that these terrorists are also attacking muslims ... the bombing and shootings in Saudi arabia ( particulary in mecca, muslims holy land ) ... the bombing in Kuwait ... the slaughter of Egyptian and algerian diplomats .... so you have to think , since they are also targeting muslims , doesn't that mean that the Islam the believe in is different from the Islam 99,9999% of muslims believe ... therefore , generalizing the idea that muslims are terrorist is wrong ... dont you think ???

 

[tiktok]

Until proven otherwise, I will see all Muslims as potential terrorists because the arithmetic proves it. 99,9999997% of all terrorism committed in the world today is by Muslims.

Ahhh the sheer thrill of watching a bigot emerge from his shell.

Let's take it to the basement. I have a special talent for racists.

The thread will be called ASS.

Look forward to our meeting and welcome any and all visitors to come along too.

 

[cnredd]

yes I agree , but you forgot one thing ... that these terrorists are also attacking muslims ... the bombing and shootings in Saudi arabia ( particulary in mecca, muslims holy land ) ... the bombing in Kuwait ... the slaughter of Egyptian and algerian diplomats .... so you have to think , since they are also targeting muslims , doesn't that mean that the Islam the believe in is different from the Islam 99,9999% of muslims believe ... therefore , generalizing the idea that muslims are terrorist is wrong ... dont you think ???

I agree, mustafa...

It's thinking like that that burns the remaining bridges we have left with the Ummah.

"We have a problem with 1 million people, so let's kill 1 billion"....
I'd say "What a dork", but "What a diseased way of thinking" is more succinct.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

[mod mode]
Shoes for Whomever They Fit:

The debate is not about the personal qualities of any of the master debaters in this thread. Name-calling etc doesn't take an intellect anymore developed than a pre-schooler's. Therefore, it stands to reason that these tactics don't give anyone here enough of an opportunity to display their mental prowess or their prominent master debating skills.
The best way to exhibit your well polished master debating skills is to stick to the subject in hand.
[/mod mode]

 

[Arch Enemy]

Being the trend setter as I am, I'll respond not to a post! But to a signature of a POST!

>>>Is Israel Really Worth It??<<<

I'm not going to call you a maniac because I actually respect the ideals and beliefs of others, we all end up the same way.. its just a matter how we get there. Do I support Israel being a nation of its own? Yes, actually I do! Who has the right to tell people not to group together and form their own community?

From what I get, you want us to stop supporting Israel. The outcome of such an act would be the beginning of a nuclear war, my dear friend. See as soon as we stop support these people they'll be over-run by every Jihad imaginable.. put in such a circumstance any Political Leader (Polis=Many Tic=Blood Sucker) would get nervous and we'd have Jericho Mark I and Mark IIs flying all over the place.

 

[VTA]

VTA, forgive my not responding to your thoughtful response... Unlike the gang on 3 yours is worthy of considerable consideration and I would not insult your intelligence with a reaction.

That said, it did occur to me while reading your post: has he read Chomsky... have you heard his lectures?

I only ask because you serve this term "extremist" as if it were a dish only for the Arabs. There is ample evidence to the contrary that would be better coming from Mr Chomski than I.

If you are interested I have one of his better lectures on my HD which I would be happy to seed to you over Bit torrent.

Do let me know.

Thanks Tik,
I'll have to admit my ignorance where Chomsky is concerned.
Though my use of the term extremists is served for Muslims, it's because they are the topic of conversation here... sure there are exremists on this side of the ocean and plenty are Anglo-Saxon, but I don't believe they are the ones running the war.

I'll thankfully take what you can offer in regard to Chomsky, but I'll have to show my ignorance again... I use this machine as an artist, not a programmer or any such thing; what is' seed over a Bit torrent'?:3oops:

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by VTA:
And just because a 'freedon fighter' is lying on the ground when the camera rolls doesn't mean, 1. that he's an Iraqi defending his land, since Iraq is full of foreigners joining the Jihad and 2. that he was unarmed when initially hit.

If your talking about the guy who "...was faking. He's f___ing faking." Bam! "He's dead now!"

That's murder. Not caution. Not defense. F___ing murder! And if your an Iraqi, it's also terrorism.

 

[mustafa]

Who has the right to tell people not to group together and form their own community?

nobody ... but doing that on the corpses of another community is wrong
:2wave:

 

[Arch Enemy]

nobody ... but doing that on the corpses of another community is wrong
:2wave:

Then all communities are wrong? Every place is built upon the fallen ashes of past times, including your home country.

 

[Surenderer]

The disagreemet on this topic can be summed up (and the video proves this) by the fact that most here consider an American life far more valuable than an Iraqi one.(or any other nationality)...Thats why you can be outraged by a beheading but not by a missle being shot from 30 thousand feet which produce the exact same results...You can be pissed about 9-11 but not about 500+ thousand children who suffered under sanctions...I posted this video earlier in another thread and was met with hostility.....


http://prisonplanet.com/articles/july2004/190704liberationvideo.htm



The guilty in this video still havent been brought to justice.......That video shows (according to civilians in Fallujah) men women and children on their way to a peace rally.....That incident started the seige in Fallujah that cost how many their lives?

 

[mustafa]

I will see all Muslims as potential terrorists because the arithmetic proves it. 99,9999997% of all terrorism committed in the world today is by Muslims.

I took a second look at this post , and it occured to ..... based on this perception , and since many crimes are committed by African American , is it right to say this
I will see all black people as potential criminals because the arithmetic proves it. 99,9999997% ( or less)of all crimes committed in the U.S today is by african american ...
just wanted to show what a racist he is ....

 

[VTA]

The disagreemet on this topic can be summed up (and the video proves this) by the fact that most here consider an American life far more valuable than an Iraqi one.(or any other nationality)...Thats why you can be outraged by a beheading but not by a missle being shot from 30 thousand feet which produce the exact same results...You can be pissed about 9-11 but not about 500+ thousand children who suffered under sanctions...I posted this video earlier in another thread and was met with hostility.....


http://prisonplanet.com/articles/july2004/190704liberationvideo.htm



The guilty in this video still havent been brought to justice.......That video shows (according to civilians in Fallujah) men women and children on their way to a peace rally.....That incident started the seige in Fallujah that cost how many their lives?

No one in their right mind puts a meter of value on anyones life.
Our men die in this war, their men die in this war, to get riled up over one death or another and not both is disengenuous. I do believe in the cause of this war, based on the beliefs as I've stated elsewhere, but I also acknowledge it's tragedy and truely wish we (all people) would've evolved past the necessity of fighting.

The sanctions that Sadaam allowed to hurt his people were lifted and the Oil For Food program was put in place. Unfortunately, he and the countries involved in bilking it of millions didn't see fit to allow his people to benefit from it.

It seems for the most part, Sadaams part in this is largely forgotten.
What position would the U.S. have been in if he had come clean and allowed inspectors in and possibly made a fool of the U.S.?

He chose to gamble and he lost.

As for that website, the imagery is disturbing and the message on some points interesting, but I have to question the sanity of any who thinks Arnold Schwarzanegger(sp?) is being set to lead the New World Order...

 

[VTA]

As an addendum I'd like to add, rage against such things and the Soldiers reactions to them are fine, but understand; they are merely a mirror image of the behaviour you claim to oppose, not a cry for justice or a moral stance.

The way I see it, invoking Gods name while you saw through someones neck or blow them up is in no way better than someone saying 'dude' or cheering...

 

[tiktok]

The disagreemet on this topic can be summed up (and the video proves this) by the fact that most here consider an American life far more valuable than an Iraqi one.


I applaud your insight. There is nothing more to be said.

Welcome to the debate, I'm sure everyone involved is glad of your presence...

 

[Missouri Mule]

thats exactly why I hate terrorist more than you do , they are killing people in the name of God , and in the name of Islam ... but you have to understand they are far from what Islam preaches .. they claim to be muslims but the truth is they are as far as it gets from Islam ...

yes I agree , but you forgot one thing ... that these terrorists are also attacking muslims ... the bombing and shootings in Saudi arabia ( particulary in mecca, muslims holy land ) ... the bombing in Kuwait ... the slaughter of Egyptian and algerian diplomats .... so you have to think , since they are also targeting muslims , doesn't that mean that the Islam the believe in is different from the Islam 99,9999% of muslims believe ... therefore , generalizing the idea that muslims are terrorist is wrong ... dont you think ???

Well, you seem to forget that your own religion's "fatwas" specifically say it is acceptable to kill other Muslims in the "greater good" of killing the infidels. It may be true that 99.9999% of all Muslims are peace living and good human beings but until you, as a religion, specifically demand this murder stop it will continue. Why the hell doesn't Pakistan turn over bin Laden? The reason is because the Muslims there believe they will go to hell if they give him up. I've always believed that actions speak louder than words. Turn him over for justice. Then I'll start to believe that Islam is truly a religion of peace. Until then I just see it as comprised of terrorists who hide behind this religion and its members unwilling to do what is just. No one in their right mind can possibly excuse what bin Laden did to Americans on 9/11. No one.

 

[Missouri Mule]

I took a second look at this post , and it occured to ..... based on this perception , and since many crimes are committed by African American , is it right to say this
I will see all black people as potential criminals because the arithmetic proves it. 99,9999997% ( or less)of all crimes committed in the U.S today is by african american ...
just wanted to show what a racist he is ....

Bullshit! This is not about race. It is about the "religion of peace."

 

[Simon W. Moon]

Bullshit! This is not about race. It is about the "religion of peace."

So, you're saying that you're prejudging people based on their religion and that this is substantively different than prejudging folks based on the color of their skin?