Would you wear a mask to protect the unvaccinated if its not required?

[roguenuke]

View attachment 67345274

That person must never have dealt with children.

 

[Ethel2]

Here's the breakdown of how many breakthrough cases there have been in Massachusetts including severity. As you can see if you are vaccinated you still run the risk of dying, but its a very small risk:

According to the state, the breakthrough cases represent 0.15% of the 4,351,752 people who have been fully vaccinated in Massachusetts. The hospitalized breakthrough cases represent 0.009% of fully vaccinated individuals; the deaths 0.002%.

Here’s how many breakthrough COVID-19 cases have occurred in Mass.

The Bay State has seen 6,373 breakthrough cases, as of July 24, according to the Department of Public Health. Read more on Boston.com.

www.boston.com

 

[Ethel2]

Of course I have to ask it because it's what the left is dictating .. "Go get the vaccine ... oh yeah .. and now that you're protected, **** you, and we are requiring you to wear a mask now .. again .."

Sounds fair to me.
Go get vaccinated (if you haven't already been )

 

[The Baron]

Sorry, but that is utterly moronic.

Not true at all.

The pro-vaccine contingent are the ones telling the truth here

Like you have to wear a mask...you don't have to wear a mask....you have to wear a mask...I can't help but notice the truth keeps changing a lot.

. It's the anti-vaxxers who are lying out their asses and spreading harmful disinformation.

Some are. But it appears that there is misinformation coming from all sides.

As to the other methods? There is an utterly absurd abundant evidence of people doing things that are in their own worst interest, and where we use all sorts of tactics (including soft persuasion or shaming or laws) to try and persuade or coerce people into not doing them. A few examples:

• Smoking cigarettes

None of your business.

• Taking heroin
• Taking amphetamines

I'd legalize both if I could. What do I care what an adult making decisions for themselves do?

• Driving while intoxicated

Illegal for all the obvious (and good) reasons.

• Eating unhealthy food

None of your business.

• Not getting enough exercise

What do you care? Doesn't harm you in any way.

• Buying homes that are too expensive for them

Once again, not your problem.

• Not insuring cars or homes
• Not having health insurance

Not your monkey, not your circus.

• Playing with powerful fireworks

Yea...it's a blast! Get it?

• Driving too fast

Maybe it's the other ass-hats that are driving too slow?

• Not getting an education

Somebody's got to make the french-fries.

Do you really need me to go on?

Hell yea! This is fun!

With respect to the post or meme or whatever it's called...it's actually quite insightful and fit rather nicely here. I'll grant you it's not something that left-wingers will appreciate, that's for certain. The idea that an individual can and should be left alone to make decisions for themselves is verboten to Socialist / Marxist / Fascist / left-wingers, et. al. And yet our whole country is based on the idea of individual liberty. I'm not entirely sure how it has fallen out of such disfavor with so many young people today but it certainly seems to have done that very thing.

I can't help but notice that left-wingers are doing a rather $h!t of of managing their own lives...they don't know which bathroom to use, they eat Tide Pods, they smoke pot and condemn others for smoking cigarettes, they think there are 64 genders when there are only two and still they don't know which one they are, they spend $250,000 on an education but can't get a job...it just seems endless. And yet it is these same people who can't seem to find their way off the short-bus that believe they have some divine right to tell the rest of us how to live even though they don't believe in God.

It's very strange.

 

[The Baron]

That person must never have dealt with children.

Cute but I'm confident it is addressing adults.

 

[roguenuke]

Cute but I'm confident it is addressing adults.

Adults can still act like, basically be children.

 

[yoopergirl]

This question is dishonest.
The Delta variant is highly contagious even among the vaccinated, and they can spread it.

Even if it were only to protect the unvaccinated, I would wear the mask because I could still spread it.
Consider this: every time the virus is contracted by/spread to another person it's another chance for the virus to mutate/evolve.
Right now we're at the Delta variant. What are you going to do when it reaches Lamda? or, heaven forbid, Omega?

 

[yoopergirl]

Its pretty simple. Masks are primarily for the benefit of the unvaccinated. The vaccinated are very unlikely to become seriously ill.
I would wear one ONLY if I knew an immune compromised person was present or if children under 12 were around.

That's a pretty cavalier attitude. I sympathize with your thoughts (after all, deliberate ignorance, blah, blah, blah), but vaccinated people
can spread the Delta variant.
Every time the virus jumps from one person to another, there's a chance of mutation/evolution/variation. Right now we are at
the Delta variant. What happens when at the Lambert variation? What happens if, heaven forbid, we get to Omega?

 

[Ethel2]

That's a pretty cavalier attitude. I sympathize with your thoughts (after all, deliberate ignorance, blah, blah, blah), but vaccinated people
can spread the Delta variant.
Every time the virus jumps from one person to another, there's a chance of mutation/evolution/variation. Right now we are at
the Delta variant. What happens when at the Lambert variation? What happens if, heaven forbid, we get to Omega?

The best way to avoid future variants is for the covidiots to get vaccinated.
Just not worried about spreading the virus to those who won’t help themselves

 

[phoenix2020]

I’m not terribly excited about wearing a mask for as long as there are unvaccinated people out there. Otherwise I would effectively by signing up to wear a mask and socially distance for perpetuity since (a) viruses like these don’t magically disappear like Trump hoped and (b) there will always be some clowns who think vaccines contain Bill Gates chips and refuse to take them. I would be willing to voluntarily mask up to some specific, measurable and widely accepted threshold of vaccination levels, but I will not voluntarily agree to mask for perpetuity.

 

[yoopergirl]

The best way to avoid future variants is for the covidiots to get vaccinated.
Just not worried about spreading the virus to those who won’t help themselves

Of course it is. But vaccinated people can spread the Delta variant, which is more dangerous than the original.
If you refuse to wear a mask, knowing you can still spread the disease, aren't you joining the covidiots?

 

[Ethel2]

Of course it is. But vaccinated people can spread the Delta variant, which is more dangerous than the original.
If you refuse to wear a mask, knowing you can still spread the disease, aren't you joining the covidiots?

First, masks are not required where I live right now. They are suggested.
Second, I am not up for helping those who refuse to help themselves, people who show wanton disregard for everyone around them by refusing to get vaccinated. These people are the same fools who have criticized public health mandates and advice from the beginning, spread misinformation to the detriment of society, and have proven over and over again its just about me me me. Well you know what? Now it IS about "me". Its up to THEM, not ME to take care of themselves FIRST. Once we reach about an 80% vaccination rate, proving that these people have regained their sanity, only then will I do whatever I can to protect them since the evidence is there that they are trying to protect themselves. Until then, I really honestly don't much care about them. Delta will find them.

 

[roguenuke]

First, masks are not required where I live right now. They are suggested.
Second, I am not up for helping those who refuse to help themselves, people who show wanton disregard for everyone around them by refusing to get vaccinated. These people are the same fools who have criticized public health mandates and advice from the beginning, spread misinformation to the detriment of society, and have proven over and over again its just about me me me. Well you know what? Now it IS about "me". Its up to THEM, not ME to take care of themselves FIRST. Once we reach about an 80% vaccination rate, proving that these people have regained their sanity, only then will I do whatever I can to protect them since the evidence is there that they are trying to protect themselves. Until then, I really honestly don't much care about them. Delta will find them.

It isn't just about helping those who aren't vaccinated though. It still helps everyone. If the Delta gets out of control in those who are unvaccinated, then that still puts the vaccinated at risk.

 

[Ethel2]

It isn't just about helping those who aren't vaccinated though. It still helps everyone. If the Delta gets out of control in those who are unvaccinated, then that still puts the vaccinated at risk.

Sure the vaccinated can get infected. But the chance of getting seriously ill is pretty minimal. To be perfectly honest, I would not mind getting a minor infection (and I am willing to take the tiny risk that it might be more than minor) because in doing so my antibody levels would dramatically increase...sort of an in vivo booster before the anticipated booster shots are even available (probably this fall).
I see it as a race, as I wrote before here. Which happens first-does an extremely dangerous vaccine resistant mutant develop in the unvaccinated first? Or do enough of the covidiots get infected (or better still, come to their senses and get vaccinated) so that the amount of virus in the community is so reduced that the escape variant never appears? My bet is on the second option. We still have to guard our borders. I favor a two week quarantine for ANYONE returning from overseas. Testing is good, but not reliable enough for me.

 

[roguenuke]

Sure the vaccinated can get infected. But the chance of getting seriously ill is pretty minimal. To be perfectly honest, I would not mind getting a minor infection (and I am willing to take the tiny risk that it might be more than minor) because in doing so my antibody levels would dramatically increase...sort of an in vivo booster before the anticipated booster shots are even available (probably this fall).
I see it as a race, as I wrote before here. Which happens first-does an extremely dangerous vaccine resistant mutant develop in the unvaccinated first? Or do enough of the covidiots get infected (or better still, come to their senses and get vaccinated) so that the amount of virus in the community is so reduced that the escape variant never appears? My bet is on the second option. We still have to guard our borders. I favor a two week quarantine for ANYONE returning from overseas. Testing is good, but not reliable enough for me.

It isn't just about the vaccinated getting infected.

Again, it is also about overwhelming the medical system so that hospitals may be once again turning away ambulances and others with serious, lifethreatening emergencies because they simply don't have the room and/or resources to handle them due to the number of those with covid.

It is also about the number of people passing coronavirus around. If that number is high, that increases the chance of a vaccine resistant variable coming up.

 

[Ethel2]

It isn't just about the vaccinated getting infected.

Again, it is also about overwhelming the medical system so that hospitals may be once again turning away ambulances and others with serious, lifethreatening emergencies because they simply don't have the room and/or resources to handle them due to the number of those with covid.

It is also about the number of people passing coronavirus around. If that number is high, that increases the chance of a vaccine resistant variable coming up.

I agree: the hospitalization rates need to be carefully watched and if it appears that they are going to get slammed then make mask wearing mandatory, not suggested. In that case everyone has no choice but to wear one indoors. So far, at least where I live, its not happening. Its the younger people for the most part who are not vaccinated and they are far less likely to get really sick with this. Measuring cases is a lot less useful than measuring hospitalization rates.
I already addressed your concern about an escape variant appearing. Sure, its possible, but IMO its more likely that delta will find enough covidiots so that transmission will be reduced enough to make that unlikely, In any event, I am not willing to help those who will not help themselves.

On another topic, Dr Ghandi (ID, UCSF) had this to say-and I think she is right. Its not sufficient to simply measure viral load via CT (cycle threshold): you need serial measurements and cultures. What if they are measuring dead virus? The PCR test cannot distinguish dead virus from infectious virus; you need a culture to determine that. If a lot of the virus measured in the P Town study was dead then the CDC recommendations are pointless. Maybe I am missing something here, but seems that Dr Ghandi and I agree on this point:

"This past week, there was a lot of depressing news about delta, mainly that it gives high viral loads in the nose and more symptomatic breakthroughs (but mild) in the vaccinated (leading CDC to recommend masking inside, which is prudent). Confusing data from a Provincetown outbreak said vaccinated equally likely to spread than unvaccinated, but that really needs culture and serial viral load data to confirm. The vaccines continue, however, to show astoundingly high effectiveness in preventing severe disease and death, which was their original intent."

 

[ecofarm]

If the stats show there's a significant impact, I'll do whatever to protect others. See, I'm good. I don't gotta worry about me. Got everything I want. Did everything I want. Sure, there's some stuff I'd like to accomplish but wearing a mask will have no impact on those things.

For those unable to recognize the above, it's called being a man.

 

[Ethel2]

Meanwhile, in the UK, cases are dropping precipitously. Why this is happening isn't clear. Not sure if its due to less testing, reporting glitches, or if its real, and if its real why is it happening. Its possible that now that they are nearly totally reopen that enough unvaccinated people there have gotten infected so that they are approaching a partial herd immunity. If so, if enough covidiots here get infected, we could be weeks away from our own plateau.

U.K.'s Delta wave seems to have peaked sooner than expected. Could the same thing happen in the U.S.?

After surging for months because of the hypercontagious Delta variant, COVID-19 cases in the United Kingdom are rapidly plummeting, raising the question of whether America’s Delta wave could also peak sooner than expected.

news.yahoo.com

 

[Ethel2]

If the stats show there's a significant impact, I'll do whatever to protect others. See, I'm good. I don't gotta worry about me. Got everything I want. Did everything I want. Sure, there's some stuff I'd like to accomplish but wearing a mask will have no impact on those things.

For those unable to recognize the above, it's called being a man.

The other consideration is one you alluded to: are masks actually going to be effective enough against the delta variant. They have been shown to reduce but not eliminate transmission with other variants, but delta makes 1000x as much virus. Its entirely possible that the amount leaking out the sides of your mask (unless you are wearing an N95 respirator) or entering through the sides is more than enough to be a major problem. If masks are shown not to be an effective enough of a mitigating factor with this variant then what is left is either a lockdown in high transmission areas-or mandatory vaccination of recalcitrant covidiots.

 

[Risky Thicket]

I admire people who can forgive the covidiots for harming others. I am just not there.
What they do to themselves is their business. I can’t forgive them for killing others.

The nation as a whole is harmed. Businesses, those that didn’t bankrupt as a result of the initial COVID surge may soon close due to the Delta variant surge. We may well see sporting events face another year of disruption. Concerts and live entertainment may be limited or canceled as they have been the last year and a half.

Preventative and elective surgeries and procedures may once again slow to a crawl as hospital occupancies peak with new COVID cases.

On and on as American returns to lockdown because of selfish people. It could all be prevented or greatly mitigated if Americans would step up for the greater common good.

 

[yoopergirl]

The nation as a whole is harmed. Businesses, those that didn’t bankrupt as a result of the initial COVID surge may soon close due to the Delta variant surge. We may well see sporting events face another year of disruption. Concerts and live entertainment may be limited or canceled as they have been the last year and a half.

Preventative and elective surgeries and procedures may once again slow to a crawl as hospital occupancies peak with new COVID cases.

On and on as American returns to lockdown because of selfish people. It could all be prevented or greatly mitigated if Americans would step up for the greater common good.

It seems cooperating for the common good is no longer an accepted virtue in America, whether vaxxed or unvaxxed.

 

[yoopergirl]

It bothers me that so many people who are vaccinated are refusing to wear masks even though they can
can catch & transmit the Delta variant.

Right now we are dealing with the Delta variant and it seems the current vaccines are still effective against
them, but those vaccinated can still be infected with the Delta variant & get sick.

However, what happens when this variant mutates? What happens when the present vaccines are no longer
effective against future variants?

Doesn't it make sense to protect yourself and others as much as possible until we reach 80% vaccinated, and
finally, herd immunity?

Let's do everything we can to keep this virus from passing back & forth. That gives it less chance to mutate and
get worse for everyone.

 

[Lursa]

First, masks are not required where I live right now. They are suggested.
Second, I am not up for helping those who refuse to help themselves, people who show wanton disregard for everyone around them by refusing to get vaccinated. These people are the same fools who have criticized public health mandates and advice from the beginning, spread misinformation to the detriment of society, and have proven over and over again its just about me me me. Well you know what? Now it IS about "me". Its up to THEM, not ME to take care of themselves FIRST. Once we reach about an 80% vaccination rate, proving that these people have regained their sanity, only then will I do whatever I can to protect them since the evidence is there that they are trying to protect themselves. Until then, I really honestly don't much care about them. Delta will find them.

From earlier in the thread (and yes, I have read all your posts that followed the above one so far too)

Just another simple mutation can change all that. And we dont know if the under-12s are carriers, with sniffly noses or no symptoms, spreading it all over now.​

​

Again, the more the virus circulates, the more opportunities to mutate. Has nothing to do with level of sickness or hospitalizations or deaths.​

--and--

It's not a zero sum game.​

​

Being vaccinated reduces the chances of personal infection and reduces incidences of spreading it to others. Masks reduce it even further. Every bit of reduction matters.​

​

Yeah...it requires a concern for society and others overall...and a little more effort. We have no idea what mutations will crop up next...we need to do everything we can to reduce its feeding grounds now.​

 

[Risky Thicket]

From earlier in the thread (and yes, I have read all your posts that followed the above one so far too)

Just another simple mutation can change all that. And we dont know if the under-12s are carriers, with sniffly noses or no symptoms, spreading it all over now.​

​

Again, the more the virus circulates, the more opportunities to mutate. Has nothing to do with level of sickness or hospitalizations or deaths.​

--and--

It's not a zero sum game.​

​

Being vaccinated reduces the chances of personal infection and reduces incidences of spreading it to others. Masks reduce it even further. Every bit of reduction matters.​

​

Yeah...it requires a concern for society and others overall...and a little more effort. We have no idea what mutations will crop up next...we need to do everything we can to reduce its feeding grounds now.​

Exactly.

We do know that none of the pharmaceutical options are 100% effective in the prevention of COVID. We also know that none of the behavioral recommendations (masks, social distancing and hand washing) are 100% effective in the prevention of COVID. However, if everyone was vaccinated and everyone practiced effective behavioral virus prevention we would all receive the maximum combined benefit. That might not amount to 100% but we'd be as close as we could get to eradicating the virus in the US. We could soon return to a semblance of normalcy in the US.

If half the nation does nothing the virus effort will be half-assed and so thus the results will reflect pretty much what we are seeing now. The virus may continue to mutate as it will have no problem finding new hosts. More people will become sick, more people be hospitalized and more people will die.

 

[Ethel2]

From earlier in the thread (and yes, I have read all your posts that followed the above one so far too)

Just another simple mutation can change all that. And we dont know if the under-12s are carriers, with sniffly noses or no symptoms, spreading it all over now.​

​

Again, the more the virus circulates, the more opportunities to mutate. Has nothing to do with level of sickness or hospitalizations or deaths.​

--and--

It's not a zero sum game.​

​

Being vaccinated reduces the chances of personal infection and reduces incidences of spreading it to others. Masks reduce it even further. Every bit of reduction matters.​

​

Yeah...it requires a concern for society and others overall...and a little more effort. We have no idea what mutations will crop up next...we need to do everything we can to reduce its feeding grounds now.​

The ONLY way we will end this is via herd immunity. This can be achieved either through mass vaccination or mass natural infection or a combination of both. The covidiots have made it clear that they don’t care about anyone but themselves and that they have no intention of getting vaccinated. There is an insufficient number of normal people to achieve the goal of herd immunity. We need the covidiots to get vaccinated (unlikely) or get infected to protect normal people. The health and safety of covidiots is not in the equation for me.
Yes, it’s possible that an escape variant will occur before transmission is sufficiently reduced, but my money is on the alternative to happen first. Do you honestly think the unvaccinated covidiots are going to mask up again because its “suggested”? Laughable. Its THEM who are mostly responsible for spreading this. Lets be clear about that.
I won’t wear a mask to protect them-only to protect kids-or if it’s mandatory.