Would you wear a mask to protect the unvaccinated if its not required?

[Lursa]

The ONLY way we will end this is via herd immunity. This can be achieved either through mass vaccination or mass natural infection or a combination of both. The covidiots have made it clear that they don’t care about anyone but themselves and that they have no intention of getting vaccinated. There is an insufficient number of normal people to achieve the goal of herd immunity. We need the covidiots to get vaccinated (unlikely) or get infected to protect normal people. The health and safety of covidiots is not in the equation for me.
Yes, it’s possible that an escape variant will occur before transmission is sufficiently reduced, but my money is on the alternative to happen first. Do you honestly think the unvaccinated covidiots are going to mask up again because its “suggested”? Laughable. Its THEM who are mostly responsible for spreading this. Lets be clear about that.
I won’t wear a mask to protect them-only to protect kids-or if it’s mandatory.

Your (repeated) opinion is noted. It doesnt follow the most current observations of the virus's development and consequences...but it's yours to hold.

 

[Ethel2]

Exactly.

We do know that none of the pharmaceutical options are 100% effective in the prevention of COVID. We also know that none of the behavioral recommendations (masks, social distancing and hand washing) are 100% effective in the prevention of COVID. However, if everyone was vaccinated and everyone practiced effective behavioral virus prevention we would all receive the maximum combined benefit. That might not amount to 100% but we'd be as close as we could get to eradicating the virus in the US. We could soon return to a semblance of normalcy in the US.

If half the nation does nothing the virus effort will be half-assed and so thus the results will reflect pretty much what we are seeing now. The virus may continue to mutate as it will have no problem finding new hosts. More people will become sick, more people be hospitalized and more people will die.

I am doing something by not masking up: I am allowing delta to take its natural course and produce immunity in people the only way possible other than vaccination.
It will work. We just have to protect those who still have no choice about getting vaccinated.

 

[Ethel2]

Your (repeated) opinion is noted. It doesnt follow the most current observations of the virus's development and consequences...but it's yours to hold.

Your objection is likewise noted. Just a difference of opinion on how best to exit the pandemic. Feel free to mask up to protect the covidiots if thats your choice. I have made mine.
At least my plan provides for the possibility that delta will rapidly infect the idiots who won’t get vaccinated, thereby bringing us closer to herd immunity-as is likely happening in the UK right now.

Just curious-whats your exit strategy? If this is allowed to smolder forever even at a reduced penetrance of the virus eventually an escape variant will appear.
I produced my exit strategy. Whats your plan?

 

[roguenuke]

Your objection is likewise noted. Just a difference of opinion on how best to exit the pandemic. Feel free to mask up to protect the covidiots if thats your choice. I have made mine.

Just curious-whats your exit strategy? If this is allowed to smolder forever even at a reduced penetrance of the virus eventually an escape variant will appear.
I produced my exit strategy. Whats your plan?

Why would you need "an exit strategy"? Is wearing a mask really all that hard, that difficult, something that hurts so bad that you just can't keep doing it?

 

[Lursa]

Your objection is likewise noted. Just a difference of opinion on how best to exit the pandemic. Feel free to mask up to protect the covidiots if thats your choice. I have made mine.

Just curious-whats your exit strategy? If this is allowed to smolder forever even at a reduced penetrance of the virus eventually an escape variant will appear.
I produced my exit strategy. Whats your plan?

To follow the most current reliable medical guidance and be flexible when they are. So that means doing everything possible to prevent the replication of the virus and thus, lessen the chances of new variants. That includes masking, social distancing, hand washing...yeah, all the crummy stuff we dont like.

This virus is throwing us curves and a politically-driven group of ignorant idiots isnt helping. I've been studying epidemiology for more than 2 decades...for fun, as a layperson....yup. What I've been reading is troubling and regarding recent revelations regarding the possible targeting of the wrong receptors in the vaccinations, accidentally, and thus naturally selecting for more resistant variants...is troubling.

The ONLY way to fix that, that I know of, is to reduce the virus replicating as much as possible, however possible.

 

[Ethel2]

Why would you need "an exit strategy"? Is wearing a mask really all that hard, that difficult, something that hurts so bad that you just can't keep doing it?

I have no problem wearing a mask when it’s necessary. Been doing it for a long time. But it’s not a way out. Only if a sufficient number of people become immune will transmission slow down. The covidiots have made it abundantly clear that they won’t get vaccinated (which I would much prefer). The only other way for a sufficient number of people to become immune is via infection.

 

[Ethel2]

To follow the most current reliable medical guidance and be flexible when they are. So that means doing everything possible to prevent the replication of the virus and thus, lessen the chances of new variants. That includes masking, social distancing, hand washing...yeah, all the crummy stuff we dont like.

This virus is throwing us curves and a politically-driven group of ignorant idiots isnt helping. I've been studying epidemiology for more than 2 decades...for fun, as a layperson....yup. What I've been reading is troubling and regarding recent revelations regarding the possible targeting of the wrong receptors in the vaccinations, accidentally, and thus naturally selecting for more resistant variants...is troubling.

The ONLY way to fix that, that I know of, is to reduce the virus replicating as much as possible, however possible.

Its just going to smolder for a very long time-thereby INCREASING the chance of an escape variant unless a whole lot of people become immune rapidly.

 

[Lursa]

Its just going to smolder for a very long time-thereby INCREASING the chance of an escape variant unless a whole lot of people become immune rapidly.

I dont really understand that response...but that's fine

LOL it's certainly not a counter-argument to my post. And that's also fine.

 

[roguenuke]

I have no problem wearing a mask when it’s necessary. Been doing it for a long time. But it’s not a way out. Only if a sufficient number of people become immune will transmission slow down. The covidiots have made it abundantly clear that they won’t get vaccinated (which I would much prefer). The only other way for a sufficient number of people to become immune is via infection.

Not if it ends up like the flu. It will simply keep mutating, leaving people who are not immune to it, even if they've had it.

And there were people getting their vaccines today.

 

[Ethel2]

I dont really understand that response...but that's fine

Let me try to explain it this way: which would end this more quickly?
1. Herd immunity achieved via a combination of vaccination and infection ( my bet is that delta will take care of the latter as it continues to wreak havoc on the unvaccinated) or

2. We continue to all wear masks (all the normal people that is-the covidiots won’t wear masks unless its a law-and even then its iffy) to protect the unvaccinated who will continue to get infected anyway but at a slower rate

Which way is faster in your opinion?

The CDC’s job is to look after the health of ALL Americans, including the unvaccinated. As individuals we can choose our own course.

 

[Ethel2]

Not if it ends up like the flu. It will simply keep mutating, leaving people who are not immune to it, even if they've had it.

And there were people getting their vaccines today.

Covid doesn’t mutate as fast as influenza. Furthermore, it’s apparently fairly easy to modify the RNA sequence that comprises the vaccine.
It’s entirely possible that we will need regular boosters for a while.

 

[Lursa]

Let me try to explain it this way: which would end this more quickly?
1. Herd immunity achieved via a combination of vaccination and infection ( my bet is that delta will take care of the latter as it continues to wreak havoc on the unvaccinated) or

2. We continue to all wear masks (all the normal people that is-the covidiots won’t wear masks unless its a law-and even then its iffy) to protect the unvaccinated who will continue to get infected anyway but at a slower rate

Which way is faster in your opinion?

The CDC’s job is to look after the health of ALL Americans, including the unvaccinated. As individuals we can choose our own course.

I think your last sentence is YOUR answer.

And I'm not convinced of the complete validity of 1 or 2 as posted. Sorry, they're a bit slanted. And also not in constantly changing epidemic.

I realize you are now grasping at some validity for your view. That's up to you but it's not likely to come from me.

 

[roguenuke]

Covid doesn’t mutate as fast as influenza. Furthermore, it’s apparently fairly easy to modify the RNA sequence that comprises the vaccine.
It’s entirely possible that we will need regular boosters for a while.

But doesn't change that if it is mutating, even if not as fast as influenza (certainly it is mutating quite a bit regardless, since we already know of many, many variants of just this one, not counting two other outbreaks in the last 20 years), then that is still going to cause issues with our medical system potentially. A "watch and wait" for our medical system is reactionary when we could be being proactive.

 

[Lursa]

Covid doesn’t mutate as fast as influenza.

Is that right? Do you have sources for that? Esp. considering the higher infection rate that they say Delta has than influenza?

Furthermore, it’s apparently fairly easy to modify the RNA sequence that comprises the vaccine.

Right now, the latest research is indicating that we didnt target the best receptors and may have made a mistake...we achieved protection but not replication and transmissibility.

So that's not necessarily true.

It’s entirely possible that we will need regular boosters for a while.

Yes, maybe.

 

[Ethel2]

I think your last sentence is YOUR answer.

And I'm not convinced of the complete validity of 1 or 2 as posted. Sorry, they're a bit slanted. And also not in constantly changing epidemic.

I realize you are now grasping at some validity for your view. That's up to you but it's not likely to come from me.

I am not looking for any validation from anyone. I think I am right. Once you take the "I care about them" factor out of it then the solution is easier: get the covidiots immune as rapidly as possible, preferable via vaccination, but if not, via infection. Thats how we get to herd immunity the fastest.

 

[Ethel2]

But doesn't change that if it is mutating, even if not as fast as influenza (certainly it is mutating quite a bit regardless, since we already know of many, many variants of just this one, not counting two other outbreaks in the last 20 years), then that is still going to cause issues with our medical system potentially. A "watch and wait" for our medical system is reactionary when we could be being proactive.

Of course its mutating. I think that the faster we get rid of this the less chance it has to mutate. If its allowed to smolder for possibly years the chance of an escape variant developing is higher...imo...then if we go all in and try to wipe this out quickly.
Fortunately delta is taking care of this for us.

I will say this: in my county we are 93% vaccinated. Masks are suggested buy not required. NO ONE was wearing one at the gym yesterday; very few were wearing them at the supermarket today. I was glad to see it. I think it will end this pandemic in the most efficient way.

 

[Ethel2]

Is that right? Do you have sources for that? Esp. considering the higher infection rate that they say Delta has than influenza?



Right now, the latest research is indicating that we didnt target the best receptors and may have made a mistake...we achieved protection but not replication and transmissibility.

So that's not necessarily true.


Yes, maybe.

You asked for proof. I remember reading it in a medical blog and I found it.

Severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) and Alphainfluenzavirus are RNA viruses that cause coronavirus disease-19 and influenza, respectively. Both viruses infect the respiratory tract, show similar symptoms, and use surface proteins to infect the host. Influenza requires hemagglutinin and neuraminidase to infect, whereas SARS-CoV-2 uses protein S. Both viruses depend on a viral RNA polymerase to express their proteins, but only SARS-CoV-2 has a proofreading mechanism, which results in a low mutation rate compared to influenza. E1KC4 and camostat mesylate are potential inhibitors of SARS-CoV-2 S protein, achieving an effect similar to oseltamivir. Due to the SARS-CoV-2 low mutation rate, nucleoside analogs have been developed (such as EIDD-2801), which insert lethal mutations in the viral RNA. Furthermore, the SARS-CoV-2 low mutation rate suggests that a vaccine, as well as the immunity developed in recovered patients, could provide long-lasting protection compared to vaccines against influenza, which are rendered obsolete as the virus mutates.

SARS-CoV-2 and influenza: a comparative overview and treatment implications - PubMed

Severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) and Alphainfluenzavirus are RNA viruses that cause coronavirus disease-19 and influenza, respectively. Both viruses infect the respiratory tract, show similar symptoms, and use surface proteins to infect the host. Influenza requires...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Lursa]

I am not looking for any validation from anyone. I think I am right. Once you take the "I care about them" factor out of it then the solution is easier: get the covidiots immune as rapidly as possible, preferable via vaccination, but if not, via infection. Thats how we get to herd immunity the fastest.

LOL Your admission about removing the 'I care about them' factor says a great deal. Again...if you dont care, why is it important to reach herd immunity the fastest?

 

[Lursa]

You asked for proof. I remember reading it in a medical blog and I found it.

Severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) and Alphainfluenzavirus are RNA viruses that cause coronavirus disease-19 and influenza, respectively. Both viruses infect the respiratory tract, show similar symptoms, and use surface proteins to infect the host. Influenza requires hemagglutinin and neuraminidase to infect, whereas SARS-CoV-2 uses protein S. Both viruses depend on a viral RNA polymerase to express their proteins, but only SARS-CoV-2 has a proofreading mechanism, which results in a low mutation rate compared to influenza. E1KC4 and camostat mesylate are potential inhibitors of SARS-CoV-2 S protein, achieving an effect similar to oseltamivir. Due to the SARS-CoV-2 low mutation rate, nucleoside analogs have been developed (such as EIDD-2801), which insert lethal mutations in the viral RNA. Furthermore, the SARS-CoV-2 low mutation rate suggests that a vaccine, as well as the immunity developed in recovered patients, could provide long-lasting protection compared to vaccines against influenza, which are rendered obsolete as the virus mutates.

SARS-CoV-2 and influenza: a comparative overview and treatment implications - PubMed

Severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) and Alphainfluenzavirus are RNA viruses that cause coronavirus disease-19 and influenza, respectively. Both viruses infect the respiratory tract, show similar symptoms, and use surface proteins to infect the host. Influenza requires...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

It's from 2020.

And it doesnt address the latest indications that I described re: focusing on the appropriate receptors.

Edit: Arent you supposed to be a doctor or do I have you mixed up with someone else? Not that that means you'd be an expert in virology or epidemioloty.

 

[Ethel2]

LOL Your admission about removing the 'I care about them' factor says a great deal. Again...if you dont care, why is it important to reach herd immunity the fastest?

I want to reach herd immunity not for the covidiots, but for us normal people. I don't care about them at all, either way. I have had it with them. Normal people want this to end AND are willing to do what is necessary to end it. Not so with the covidiots. Its always me me me.

 

[Lursa]

I want to reach herd immunity not for the covidiots, but for us normal people. I don't care about them at all, either way. I have had it with them. Normal people want this to end AND are willing to do what is necessary to end it. Not so with the covidiots. Its always me me me.

Repeating it doesnt change it. We get it, you've been clear.

Are you sure you're not looking for justification? You are entitled to your view.

 

[Ethel2]

It's from 2020.

And it doesnt address the latest indications that I described re: focusing on the appropriate receptors.

Edit: Arent you supposed to be a doctor or do I have you mixed up with someone else? Not that that means you'd be an expert in virology or epidemioloty.

Its from 2020. Do you have a more recent article that disproves it?

Yes, I am a doctor. As a pediatrician I have a significant amount of experience with infectious diseases-kids catch stuff-but I am by no means an ID expert.

Do you have a link that shows that the wrong receptor was targeted? Its interesting, but its another topic. I haven't seen that anywhere.

 

[Ethel2]

Repeating it doesnt change it. We get it, you've been clear.

Are you sure you're not looking for justification? You are entitled to your view.

You asked me why I wanted to reach herd immunity. Should I have said because its Saturday? Give me a break. I was answering your question.

Your objection to my opinion is noted. You wear a mask.
I won't.

 

[Lursa]

Its from 2020. Do you have a more recent article that disproves it?

Yes, I am a doctor. As a pediatrician I have a significant amount of experience with infectious diseases-kids catch stuff-but I am by no means an ID expert.

Do you have a link that shows that the wrong receptor was targeted? Its interesting, but its another topic. I haven't seen that anywhere.

Well first, consider how they didnt realize that the vaccine wouldnt keep people from continuing to spread it...and start from there

It's not that it was the wrong receptor necessarily, because it does protect the vaccinated. But by suppressing that one, apparently it's enabled some other 'natural selection' pressures that were unexpected and causing problems. This is very new, and I dont understand it completely. You're the doctor, maybe you can understand it better.

Read the specifics on how he believes the vaccines are acting on the virus:

https://childrenshealthdefense.org/...ccination-lethal-variants-speaking-naturally/

 

[Lursa]

You asked me why I wanted to reach herd immunity. Should I have said because its Saturday? Give me a break. I was answering your question.

Your objection to my opinion is noted. You wear a mask.
I won't.

Only an idiot wouldn't recognize that if a very virulent and transmissible mutation occurred, it would kill masked or unmasked.