If god knows that then we cannot possibly have free will. We may have free will from our perspective but true free will requires that omniscience is impossible at any level.Which is exactly what I am describing...?
Sure he can, when he can see all of time.If god knows that then we cannot possibly have free will.
Then there is no free will. Omniscience and free will are incompatible. It must be one of the other and it has to be absolute. There can be no partial omniscience.Sure he can, when he can see all of time.
So why did you even mention a Flying Spaghetti Monster?
I'll answer that.
It's because you have an imagination that exists.
And that is because you exist and the Universe exists and the Big Bang existed and in some ways, hasn't stopped existing since the process of expansion is happening....in fact, data is showing that the expansion is accelerating.
Before I go on, am I correct you believe that the Big Bang happened?
Sure there is. When you can see all of time, you are like you or me looking at the past. God isn't seeing the future. The best way our 3D time minds can grasp this is to consider it as knowing the entire past.Then there is no free will.
Help me out here Lisa. I want to grasp this but I'm having trouble. Can you word it differently?Then there is no free will. Omniscience and free will are incompatible. It must be one of the other and it has to be absolute. There can be no partial omniscience.
You are not describing omniscience thenSure there is. When you can see all of time, you are like you or me looking at the past. God isn't seeing the future. The best way our 3D time minds can grasp this is to consider it as knowing the entire past.
Thank you.You are not describing omniscience then
Not that it is relevant to anything here as far as I can tell
Of course I am. Such a being knows everything for all time. What does he not know?You are not describing omniscience then
I'm with you. I just can't figure out how that would end free will.Of course I am. Such a being knows everything for all time. What does he not know?
Omniscience means that your god, that you claim exists (this is a theoretical question) knows w what we will do before we act, all the way to e the end of our life for everyone who will ever live. The fact that your god is claimed to know everything means that we do not have free will because he already knows what we will do before we ever consider the question, or even take a breath as an infant. The fact that he knows all means that we do not have free will.Help me out here Lisa. I want to grasp this but I'm having trouble. Can you word it differently?
I'm not blaming you. I know it's my fault for struggling.
Let me back up a little bit and advocate for something I don't believe.That is irrelevant because it is only from our perspective. God is claimed by believers to know everything from the beginning of time to the very end.
But if it is free will from our perspective, how is it not free will to you?If god knows that then we cannot possibly have free will. We may have free will from our perspective but true free will requires that omniscience is impossible at any level.
But they weren't predecided if we haven't decided yet. That would be like seeing the Super Bowl game before it started. Just because God knew what the score would be doesn't mean the players actions weren't consequential to us. If a player committed the "sin" of fumbling, it doesn't mean he wasn't responsible for his actions.Without free will there can be no sin because all of our decisions, good and bad have been predecided, so we have no choice. if we have no choice then we cannot possibly be punished for making the wrong decision(sin) if we never had a choice because his free will is already predetermined for us.
Free will that only exists from our own perspective doesnt matter and it doesn't change the fact that free will can not exist with your (claimed) god's omniscience. They are already determined even if we are not aware of it.But they weren't predecided if we haven't decided yet. That would be like seeing the Super Bowl game before it started. Just because God knew what the score would be doesn't mean the players actions weren't consequential to us. If a player committed the "sin" of fumbling, it doesn't mean he wasn't responsible for his actions.
I'm still not getting it. Of course free will from our perspective matters.Free will that only exists from our own perspective doesnt matter and it doesn't change the fact that free will can not exist with your (claimed) god's omniscience. They are already determined even if we are not aware of it.
If an omniscient god knows what we will choose to do years before we are ever born then logically we cannot have true free will. We may have free will from our own perspective but that is meaningless if your god is omniscient because he knows everything that will happen in the future.I'm still not getting it. Of course free will from our perspective matters.
And how could it not be free will from God's perspective?
Knowing the score of the Super Bowl before it happened doesn't mean the game didn't happen. Nor does it mean that the game happened but it was meaningless.
It would make me more likely to vote for them, just because they were willing to push against the norm.If a politician declared themselves to be a Satanist, would that sway your vote one way or another?
I guess we should just agree to disagree since we can't grasp the other's perspective.If an omniscient god knows what we will choose to do years before we are ever born then logically we cannot have true free will. We may have free will from our own perspective but that is meaningless if your god is omniscient because he knows everything that will happen in the future.
Back to Questerr....I agree...but it does cause a problem with where the Big Bang came from and what caused it. It couldn't have come from nothingness. Even if the concept of nothingness was valid, there had to be a probability, possibility or potential that a Universe would appear. Probability, possibility and potential are not nothing from a scientific viewpoint....or anybody's viewpoint for that matter.The best evidence we currently have supports the Big Bang Theory.
No. Such a question may have no meaning whatsoever, like asking what is north of the north pole.Would you agree that something needs to be eternal for anything to exist?
I don't think we can technically prove that there is something.Back to Questerr....I agree...but it does cause a problem with where the Big Bang came from and what caused it. It couldn't have come from nothingness. Even if the concept of nothingness was valid, there had to be a probability, possibility or potential that a Universe would appear. Probability, possibility and potential are not nothing from a scientific viewpoint....or anybody's viewpoint for that matter.
Would you agree that something needs to be eternal for anything to exist?
There is a really old question that asks "Why is there something rather than nothing?"
Did it exist before there would humans? I would say yes.I don't think we can technically prove that there is something.
Since we can only witness what our brains tell us is there based on the signals they receive.
OR something like that.
But for practical purposes, there's something because we witness it.
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Edit: To put it another way, does the universe exist if we aren't here to see it?
The evidence we have gathered indicates it did.Did it exist before there would humans? I would say yes.
Very true. But I still won't try to walk through my wall.The evidence we have gathered indicates it did.
But when you start to question how real what we see and think about is, everything becomes less solid.
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