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Would you vote for a Satanist?

This should have been in "Polls", but sure - if I liked their positions I'd vote for them.
 
I imagine it would be far harder for me to be a believer. But to answer your first question, yes, If god can prevent suffering he should. It's not a hard question. If he exists and allows suffering to continue, that makes him a monster.

But we have gone off topic here and I've had this discussion with believers before. Try not to presume things about me and I will do the courtesy of returning the favor.
 
I imagine it would be far harder for me to be a believer. But to answer your first question, yes, If god can prevent suffering he should. It's not a hard question. If he exists and allows suffering to continue, that makes him a monster.
So, if you were God, what would you do to stop suffering? Would everybody and every animal live forever? Would every human and every animal be vegetarian?
Could you end suffering without ending free will? What would humans act like without free will?
 
I don’t believe claims that it exists because no “believer” in it has presented verifiable evidence of it.
So why did you even mention a Flying Spaghetti Monster?
I'll answer that.
It's because you have an imagination that exists.
And that is because you exist and the Universe exists and the Big Bang existed and in some ways, hasn't stopped existing since the process of expansion is happening....in fact, data is showing that the expansion is accelerating.
Before I go on, am I correct you believe that the Big Bang happened?
 
So, if you were God, what would you do to stop suffering? Would everybody and every animal live forever? Would every human and every animal be vegetarian?
Could you end suffering without ending free will? What would humans act like without free will?
If your god is omniscient (all-knowing) then there is no free will. We might have the appearance of free will from our perspective but if he knows all then we do not have actual free will.

If we do not have free will then sin is impossible because we did not make the choice based on our morals or ethics but it was already made before we made that choice. If we didn't make the choice then we cannot be punished for making the wrong choice.

Is your god omniscient or isn't he? In Job 37:16, it is claimed that your god is omniscient. Is that true?

 
So why did you even mention a Flying Spaghetti Monster?
I'll answer that.
It's because you have an imagination that exists.
Imagination does not make imaginary things like god/s real. But I suppose it's fun to pretend.
And that is because you exist and the Universe exists and the Big Bang existed and in some ways, hasn't stopped existing since the process of expansion is happening....in fact, data is showing that the expansion is accelerating.
This is all objective empirical evidence. No imagination necessary.
Before I go on, am I correct you believe that the Big Bang happened?
The evidence strongly supports the BB. No belief required or necessary.
So, if you were God, what would you do to stop suffering?
Snap my fingers.
Would everybody and every animal live forever?
That would be for me (god) to decide.
Would every human and every animal be vegetarian?
Maybe if I made that a commandment.
Could you end suffering without ending free will? What would humans act like without free will?
If I were god, I should be able to, right?
 
Now it's getting deep. I love this stuff. Good post Lisa. Before I comment, please clarify your first sentence.
Are you using the fact that there is free will to prove that there is no God?
 
Now it's getting deep. I love this stuff. Good post Lisa. Before I comment, please clarify your first sentence.
Are you using the fact that there is free will to prove that there is no God?
There can be no free will and there still be some level of a logical claim of a god existing. It's very slim but it is still theoretically possible, such as Deism.

There is no objective evidence of any god but we can return to that discussion in a few minutes or hours.
 
The argument you are using is not very good.

Looking at all of time would be the same as looking at the past, for you or me. And if you knew the past, you could predict every event in it with 100% accuracy without deleting free will.

So, if an entity can see "all of time", that would not preclude free will. To such a being, "all of time" has already occurred. All the choices were made in the past, free will or otherwise.

Though, free will is an illusion, so there's that.
 
Omneicence is not compatible with free will. If there is no free will then sin isn't possible because the basis of sin is choosing to do wrong.
 
Omneicence is not compatible with free will. If there is no free will then sin isn't possible because the basis of sin is choosing to do wrong.
But God, if outside of time, sees all the choices everyone made for themselves.

If someone standing at the end of time looked back and could know all of the choices ever made in the universe, would that invalidate the free will used to make them? No.
 
So, if an entity can see "all of time", that would not preclude free will. To such a being, "all of time" has already occurred. All the choices were made in the past, free will or otherwise.
Interesting perspective. I'm rereading a book about what it would be like for someone to fall into and black hole and what the fall would also look like to observers outside the black hole at various (relatively close) locations. As you know, it's not just distance and light that are affected, it is also time.
I need to think about this one.
Would the perspective you described be from someone outside the observable Universe, inside the black hole, in the worm hole or in the white hole of the next universe? It doesn't seem like any of them would work. It sounds a bit God-like.
 
Great topic. I have thought about this often (falling into a black hole). And yes, it's god-like.

So, someone living within time could never reach the "end", going either forwards or backwards, let's say. That is analogous to watching someone fall into a black hole, maybe. You can watch them forever, and you will never see them fall into the black hole.

Someone who can view all of our universe's time at once (like a higher dimension of time) could be omniscient, while free will is preserved. Just as we can see a circle drawn on a piece of paper (while 2D stick man only sees a hemispherical wall), a 4D being could see all 6 sides of a cube at once.
 
But God, if outside of time, sees all the choices everyone made for themselves.

Then the Abrahamic god isn't omniscient.
If someone standing at the end of time looked back and could know all of the choices ever made in the universe, would that invalidate the free will used to make them? No.
 
I can imagine Deism but I cannot imagine human beings without free will.....unless they are in some terrible state involving a brain disease or disorder of some sort.
I disagree that there is no evidence for God. I was getting to that with my conversation with Questarr and will continue it in a moment. Of course I won't be able to prove God exists but you already knew that.
This has become a good conversation. You have my promise I will remain civil.
I hope we keep this going.
 
If I were god, I should be able to, right?

But let me guess: Since you are human and not God, you can't describe human beings without free will.
 
All events are to such a being as the past is to us (if we could know all of the past). "Afterward" has no meaning.
That is irrelevant because it is only from our perspective. God is claimed by believers to know everything from the beginning of time to the very end.
 
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