I imagine it would be far harder for me to be a believer. But to answer your first question, yes, If god can prevent suffering he should. It's not a hard question. If he exists and allows suffering to continue, that makes him a monster.Should God physically intervene and stop babies in the womb from being killed? He is more powerful than the pregnant woman, right?
Should God kill murderers before they commit the crime? He is all knowing and all powerful, right? Do you want God to stop all bad things?....and if he doesn't, does that make him worse than the people who sin?
Think about your question. Should God stop a 2 year old from dying? How about a 102 year old? Would God be just as evil in your eyes if he permitted a 102 year old to get cancer? Is a 102 year old of less value?
You are attempting to put God in a box because that makes it easier for you to be an atheist.
I'm all about diversity but if you go to my Smurf Village thread, liberals think it is a terrible idea.What if the Satanist is also a Smurf?
So, if you were God, what would you do to stop suffering? Would everybody and every animal live forever? Would every human and every animal be vegetarian?I imagine it would be far harder for me to be a believer. But to answer your first question, yes, If god can prevent suffering he should. It's not a hard question. If he exists and allows suffering to continue, that makes him a monster.
Probably not.If a politician declared themselves to be a Satanist, would that sway your vote one way or another?
Sure, why not?So, if you were God, what would you do to stop suffering? Would everybody and every animal live forever?
If I could *poof* an entire universe into existence, surely I could do the same with a lambchop.Would every human and every animal be vegetarian?
So why did you even mention a Flying Spaghetti Monster?I don’t believe claims that it exists because no “believer” in it has presented verifiable evidence of it.
If your god is omniscient (all-knowing) then there is no free will. We might have the appearance of free will from our perspective but if he knows all then we do not have actual free will.So, if you were God, what would you do to stop suffering? Would everybody and every animal live forever? Would every human and every animal be vegetarian?
Could you end suffering without ending free will? What would humans act like without free will?
In Job 37:16, Elihu asked Job if he knew “the wondrous works of Him who is perfect in knowledge?” This verse contains a starting point for understanding the vastness of God’s knowledge. The Hebrew word “Taman,” translated in this verse to “perfect,” does mean perfect, but it also means complete, finished. https://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/hebrew/kjv/tamam.html
Nothing is missing from it. It is unblemished and has complete integrity. My family likes to complete large puzzles piece by piece on our kitchen table. It is obvious to everyone at the table when we finish the puzzle. Every piece is in place and the picture is complete. When God looks at the world, His perspective is perfect; He knows how the picture is going to look for all eternity.
Imagination does not make imaginary things like god/s real. But I suppose it's fun to pretend.So why did you even mention a Flying Spaghetti Monster?
I'll answer that.
It's because you have an imagination that exists.
This is all objective empirical evidence. No imagination necessary.And that is because you exist and the Universe exists and the Big Bang existed and in some ways, hasn't stopped existing since the process of expansion is happening....in fact, data is showing that the expansion is accelerating.
The evidence strongly supports the BB. No belief required or necessary.Before I go on, am I correct you believe that the Big Bang happened?
Snap my fingers.So, if you were God, what would you do to stop suffering?
That would be for me (god) to decide.Would everybody and every animal live forever?
Maybe if I made that a commandment.Would every human and every animal be vegetarian?
If I were god, I should be able to, right?Could you end suffering without ending free will? What would humans act like without free will?
Now it's getting deep. I love this stuff. Good post Lisa. Before I comment, please clarify your first sentence.If your god is omniscient (all-knowing) then there is no free will. We might have the appearance of free will from our perspective but if he knows all then we do not have actual free will.
If we do not have free will then sin is impossible because we did not make the choice based on our morals or ethics but it was already made before we made that choice. If we didn't make the choice then we cannot be punished for making the wrong choice.
There can be no free will and there still be some level of a logical claim of a god existing. It's very slim but it is still theoretically possible, such as Deism.Now it's getting deep. I love this stuff. Good post Lisa. Before I comment, please clarify your first sentence.
Are you using the fact that there is free will to prove that there is no God?
The argument you are using is not very good.There can be no free will and there still be some level of a logical claim of a god existing. It's very slim but it is still theoretically possible, such as Deism.
There is no objective evidence of any god but we can return to that discussion in a few minutes or hours.
Omneicence is not compatible with free will. If there is no free will then sin isn't possible because the basis of sin is choosing to do wrong.The argument you are using is not very good.
Looking at all of time would be the same as looking at the past, for you or me. And if you knew the past, you could predict every event in it with 100% accuracy without deleting free will.
So, if an entity can see "all of time", that would not preclude free will. To such a being, "all of time" has already occurred. All the choices were made in the past, free will or otherwise.
Though, free will is an illusion, so there's that.
But God, if outside of time, sees all the choices everyone made for themselves.Omneicence is not compatible with free will. If there is no free will then sin isn't possible because the basis of sin is choosing to do wrong.
Interesting perspective. I'm rereading a book about what it would be like for someone to fall into and black hole and what the fall would also look like to observers outside the black hole at various (relatively close) locations. As you know, it's not just distance and light that are affected, it is also time.So, if an entity can see "all of time", that would not preclude free will. To such a being, "all of time" has already occurred. All the choices were made in the past, free will or otherwise.
Great topic. I have thought about this often (falling into a black hole). And yes, it's god-like.Interesting perspective. I'm rereading a book about what it would be like for someone to fall into and black hole and what the fall would also look like to observers outside the black hole at various (relatively close) locations. As you know, it's not just distance and light that are affected, it is also time.
I need to think about this one.
Would the perspective you described be from someone outside the observable Universe, inside the black hole, in the worm hole or in the white hole of the next universe? It doesn't seem like any of them would work. It sounds a bit God-like.
But God, if outside of time, sees all the choices everyone made for themselves.
If someone standing at the end of time looked back and could know all of the choices ever made in the universe, would that invalidate the free will used to make them? No.
I can imagine Deism but I cannot imagine human beings without free will.....unless they are in some terrible state involving a brain disease or disorder of some sort.There can be no free will and there still be some level of a logical claim of a god existing. It's very slim but it is still theoretically possible, such as Deism.
There is no objective evidence of any god but we can return to that discussion in a few minutes or hours.
That doesn't follow. He could still know everything.Then the Abrahamic god isn't omniscient.
But only afterward. Omniscience means to know all, before and after.That doesn't follow. He could still know everything.
If I were god, I should be able to, right?
All events are to such a being as the past is to us (if we could know all of the past). "Afterward" has no meaning.But only afterward
That is irrelevant because it is only from our perspective. God is claimed by believers to know everything from the beginning of time to the very end.All events are to such a being as the past is to us (if we could know all of the past). "Afterward" has no meaning.
Which is exactly what I am describing...?God is claimed by believers to know everything from the beginning of time to the very end
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