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Would you permit racial discrimination in the military?

What kind of racial discrimination would you permit in the name of "unit cohesion?"

  • Segregation of units on the basis of race

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Outright ban on minorities in the military

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    17

TacticalEvilDan

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All of the debate raging back and forth on DADT got me to thinking.

Would "unit cohesion" be a valid argument for either segregation or an outright ban on minorities in the military?
 

Hatuey

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Anybody who has studied the so called social "experiments" carried out in the military for the last 150 years will tell you that the military has adapted to social change at a much faster rate than the rest of the country. It has done this before such changes are even made for the rest of the population. Blacks were serving next to whites from Alabama at a time where the majority of Alabama's white population was fighting to keep schools segregated. The same happened with women. At a time where there was no such thing as 'women in the workplace' they were already in battlefields( as far as 1775) nursing men and some even fighting. The 'unit cohesion' argument is nothing more than a 'think of the children' with green fatigues on. It's not based on history, studies or the actual social trends of the military. Now bring on all the arguments from experience fallacies.
 

Manc Skipper

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US troops were only desegregated in 1948. Though this was ahead of the population at large, it wasn't that long ago. There were several incidents in the UK (where segregation never existed) during WWII involving white Americans and not only the locals, but various commonwealth troops of different hues. IIRC, white US troops were shown a training movie on treating "coloureds" equally in UK society.
 

friday

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The purpose of the military is to win wars. If all the white males with majority British decent decided to go to war with America in a coordinated international effort, including using white english male sleeper cells inside of America to wage the war, then yes I would support limiting the generic role of white males with majority British ancestry. Same with any other group who divides themselves from the rest of society based on their color, gender or religion. Doing it for racist or bigoted reasons is of course never permissible, and frankly stupid.
 

repeter

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If there is some substantial evidence that having minorities in desegregated combat units has an effect on combat performance, I'd love to see it...
 

repeter

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I'm not presenting any evidence or making an argument.

I'm just asking for your opinion.
Sorry if it seemed like I was attacking you, I was just pointing out that there really is no valid evidence to segregate the military, or remove minorities.
 

TacticalEvilDan

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Well, I'm not aware of any valid evidence that homosexuals have a negative impact on "unit cohesion." Even so, this has been regarded as a valid argument first on their outright ban, then on their open service.

As such, I'm not really interested in valid evidence, just if "unit cohesion" concerns are a valid reason to discriminate against minorities.
 

Civil1z@tion

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The unit cohesion problem between different races/genders/sexual orientation is only a real issue with under-trained or conscript armies. A professional army does not have this problem as a big part of training is making sure you can work with your fellow soldiers regardless of how you feel about them.

There are some examples of conscript armies having problems with mixed units (Austria-Hungary during WW1 had this problem with Germans, Hungarians, and several varieties of Slavs all fighting in one army while the army itself was based on draftees), but highly diverse armies have been effectively fighting wars in Europe for centuries as long as there was some degree of professionalism among the soldiers.

Now, if the US army did become a conscript force, would we have a reason to discriminate against minorities for unit cohesion? At this point no. We don't even have significant language barriers to overcome (which when diversity leads to unit cohesion problems this is the most common cause). Its also clear that relationships in the military do not necessarily have to harm military effectiveness (the Theban Sacred Band was 500 pairs of gay lovers and was one of the most feared units of any Greek city-state's army). With racism in the process of being relegated to fringe groups and the dustbin of history that isn't a major issue either (and I imagine you get over racism issues pretty fast when your life is on the line). So in the modern US, even if we had a conscript force, there is no reason to limit our recruiting pool by excluding women, minorities, or homosexuals.
 

tryreading

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All of the debate raging back and forth on DADT got me to thinking.

Would "unit cohesion" be a valid argument for either segregation or an outright ban on minorities in the military?
I just don't want the Irish in there.
 

The Giant Noodle

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We are Americans. Why wouldnt all of us fight a war? I would be BEYOND pissed if ANY racial American group decided NOT to fight in a war. To even THINK about racial division in a war is assinine. It gets me mad, frankly.
 
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