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Would you like a free beverage at your favorite bar in exchange for a Covid Shot ?

noonereal said:
I feel your hate... peace 🤡
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Yeah... didn't think you had a rational argument for supporting Cuomo. He's been a conservative favorite ever since he jumped on Trump's Hydroxychloroquine bandwagon. Anything to irk progressives, regardless of how it hurts other people.
 
minnie616 said:
At this point we have tools we were not even aware of in the winter/spring of 2020.

We are more able to proceed more cautiously.

I was surprised when Michigan first closed the state to non essential businesses in March of 2020.
But for Michigan it was right the right thing to do.

Originally it was for 3 weeks but schools did stay closed with remote learning for the rest of the 2020 school year.

Our hospital staff in South east Michigan was overwhelmed with Covid 19 patients.
Refrigerator trucks were in hospital parking lots to store bodies.

The body count was so high that in 2 of southeast Michigan’s counties the state was looking at renting ice arenas to store the dead bodies in until they could be sent to funeral homes.

By Memorial Day Michigan was able to ease a lot of restrictions.
Summer time for Michigan had very few Covid 19 hospitalizations.

Each state needs to follow the data and restrict or open accordingly.
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Yet you have no proof that any of the measures taken saved any lives. Its all based on assumptions. People are still being forced into restrictions based on these assumptions. What happened to "follow the science"

Now its obey because its a sign of respect and our patriotic duty to comply.
 
Metric Mouse said:
a rational argument for supporting Cuomo.
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The man took NYC from the world epicenter of Covid to arguably the safest city in the world.

That is plenty of reason to support him.
 
trouble13 said:
Yet you have no proof that any of the measures taken saved any lives. Its all based on assumptions. People are still being forced into restrictions based on these assumptions. What happened to "follow the science"

Now its obey because its a sign of respect and our patriotic duty to comply.
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How do I prove that lives were saved.

I do know this.
I know that with restrictions the numbers of hospitalizations in Michigan fell greatly last April 2020.
We lowed the curve and yes it my belief that many lives were saved.

Michigan did follow the data.

Science has proved that vaccines work.
 
minnie616 said:
How do I prove that lives were saved.
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Produce empirical evidence that supports it and eliminates alternative explanations. Follow the scientific formula.
minnie616 said:
I do know this.
I know that with restrictions the numbers of hospitalizations in Michigan fell greatly last April 2020.
We lowed the curve and yes it my belief that many lives were saved.
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Thats your opinion, which is fine, but you need more than an opinion when drastic measures are being demanded from people.
minnie616 said:
Michigan did follow the data.
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Red states have also followed the data. They have come to different conclusions and took different approaches. Results for both approaches have been similar.
minnie616 said:
Science has proved that vaccines work.
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Yes vaccines work to some extent.
 
Metric Mouse said:
I'm sorry, how many people per million population have died in NY from covid? Has Cuomo still killed a higher percentage of his residents than Brazil, or Italy? Literally 2X the rate of Sweden, which did literally nothing?

Yeah, super success story right there...
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Yes, cherry picking again (plus distorting the facts [because it is NOT true that Sweden "did literally nothing"]).

Sweden TRIED "doing nothing" but soon tired of all of the excess deaths and did what everyone else (except the US) was doing and that was treating COVID-19 as a SERIOUS public health problem that was NOT "going to vanish in a couple of weeks".

DEATHperMILLIONvsSWEDEN21-05-04.JPG
​
BTW, if Mr. Cuomo is personally responsible for the additional ~25,696 deaths in New York over the number would have died if he had done "as good a job as the Swedes" had done but died due to his lack of leadership, doesn't that also mean that Mr. Trump is personally responsible for the additional ~130,810 death in the US over the number that would have died if he had done "as good a job as the Swedes" had done but died due to his lack of leadership?

Or is that just one of those "inconvenient questions" that you would prefer that no one ask.

And how about comparing Sweden to Canada (which definitely DID NOT "do nothing")?

Or is that another of those "inconvenient questions" that you would prefer that no one ask?

And how about comparing the US to Canada (which definitely DID NOT "do nothing")?

Or is that yet another of those "inconvenient questions" that you would prefer that no one ask?
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
Yes, cherry picking again (plus distorting the facts [because it is NOT true that Sweden "did literally nothing"]).

Sweden TRIED "doing nothing" but soon tired of all of the excess deaths and did what everyone else (except the US) was doing and that was treating COVID-19 as a SERIOUS public health problem that was NOT "going to vanish in a couple of weeks".

BTW, if Mr. Cuomo is personally responsible for the additional ~25,696 deaths in New York over the number would have died if he had done "as good a job as the Swedes" had done but died due to his lack of leadership, doesn't that also mean that Mr. Trump is personally responsible for the additional ~130,810 death in the US over the number that would have died if he had done "as good a job as the Swedes" had done but died due to his lack of leadership?

Or is that just one of those "inconvenient questions" that you would prefer that no one ask.

And how about comparing Sweden to Canada (which definitely DID NOT "do nothing")?

Or is that another of those "inconvenient questions" that you would prefer that no one ask?

And how about comparing the US to Canada (which definitely DID NOT "do nothing")?

Or is that yet another of those "inconvenient questions" that you would prefer that no one ask?
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Yes, New York definitely did worse than Canada. Far, far worse. Not exactly the rousing success the poster was claiming...
 
noonereal said:
The man took NYC from the world epicenter of Covid to arguably the safest city in the world.

That is plenty of reason to support him.
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Paging Mr. Smith, Seoul and Tokyo are here for the meeting on actually safe cities.

New York isn't even the safest city in the United States, much less the world.

And it takes pretty great leadership to make your state the second deadliest in the United States, one of the deadliest countries on the planet in terms of Covid...

Again, a higher percentage of New Yorkers were killed than Brazilians... and people are cheering. Sad.
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
As you have such a sagacious appreciation for fine wine (yes, Argentinian Malbec is one hell of a lot better than the crap that the French peddle as Malbec [most of the vines from which the inferior French product come were imported from Argentina]) I'll upgrade my approval level for Maker's Mark. I still prefer whiskey that is old enough to drink (in BC that's 18+) because it has had a chance to smooth out the rough edges (and six years [sorta] just doesn't cut it).

If you can get it, I'd recommend

LUIS SEGUNDO LAS ACEQUIAS MENDOZA 15
View attachment 67331526​


which rates a 90 (the 2014 rates a 93 and is good for at least 10 more years of cellaring) which should run you a bit less than US15 a bottle.


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For whatever reason France has the wine reputation, but I think other countries have better wine. Argentina and Spain (I live Rioja reds) have less reputation so to compete they have to provide an equal or better product at much lower cost. I used to live in Washington and plan to move back and I think that Chateau Saint Michelle in Eastern WA easily competes With French wines and you can pick it up for 10 dollars a bottle.
The French Malbec grapes are actually Argentine. There’s no grapes native to South America and thus there’s no parasites or pests down there that infect them, so in the 1900s there was a grape blight in France and so after that blight the French Malbec grapes were brought from Argentina to replant afterwards.

I’ve visited Chile and there’s several biological preserves for many crops including most wine grapes there.

If you visit Chile they have dogs in the airport and an agricultural inspection after passport control. If you bring undeclared food you will have the book thrown at you.
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
Yes, cherry picking again (plus distorting the facts [because it is NOT true that Sweden "did literally nothing"]).

Sweden TRIED "doing nothing" but soon tired of all of the excess deaths and did what everyone else (except the US) was doing and that was treating COVID-19 as a SERIOUS public health problem that was NOT "going to vanish in a couple of weeks".

BTW, if Mr. Cuomo is personally responsible for the additional ~25,696 deaths in New York over the number would have died if he had done "as good a job as the Swedes" had done but died due to his lack of leadership, doesn't that also mean that Mr. Trump is personally responsible for the additional ~130,810 death in the US over the number that would have died if he had done "as good a job as the Swedes" had done but died due to his lack of leadership?

Or is that just one of those "inconvenient questions" that you would prefer that no one ask.

And how about comparing Sweden to Canada (which definitely DID NOT "do nothing")?

Or is that another of those "inconvenient questions" that you would prefer that no one ask?

And how about comparing the US to Canada (which definitely DID NOT "do nothing")?

Or is that yet another of those "inconvenient questions" that you would prefer that no one ask?
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Not a fan of Cuomo at all, I think the guy should have resigned, but the primary reason for such high Covid numbers in the NYC area is the very high population densities. Same with New Jersey. South Dakota had very high per-capita Covid numbers with only a tiny, tiny fraction of the population density of NY, which shows you that the do nothing approach of SD was an abysmal failure. Had NY taken that approach, their fatalities would have been utterly catastrophic.
 
Metric Mouse said:
Yes, New York definitely did worse than Canada. Far, far worse. Not exactly the rousing success the poster was claiming...
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You might not have noticed it, but current Canadian mortality rate for COVID-19 is 94.04% that of the US rate.

That, naturally, proves that the US healthcare system is better than the Canadian one - doesn't it?

Mind you, when you look at WHEN those deaths occurred
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/new-york/
NEW YORK DAILY DEATHS.JPG​

the New York record doesn't look all that bad since the worst death rates were right at the beginning of the pandemic when treatment modalities hadn't been improved (and when Mr. Trump was dismissing the whole problem and claiming that it would simply go away in a couple of weeks)

Florida
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/florida/
FLORIDA DAILY DEATHS.JPG​

and Texas
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/texas/
TEXAS DAILY DEATHS.JPG​

can't quite make the same claim.
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
You might not have noticed it, but current Canadian mortality rate for COVID-19 is 94.04% that of the US rate.

That, naturally, proves that the US healthcare system is better than the Canadian one - doesn't it?

Mind you, when you look at WHEN those deaths occurred
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/new-york/

the New York record doesn't look all that bad since the worst death rates were right at the beginning of the pandemic when treatment modalities hadn't been improved (and when Mr. Trump was dismissing the whole problem and claiming that it would simply go away in a couple of weeks)

Florida
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/florida/

and Texas
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/texas/

can't quite make the same claim.
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Holy shit! Was New york really killing as many people as FLORIDA in January/February 2021? Isn't Florida's population many millions larger than New York's!? And Florida famously never shut down, fought mask mandates and denied they had a problem? New York was ****ing shit up worse than them a YEAR into the pandemic? How?
 
vaxer.jpg
 
Metric Mouse said:
Holy shit! Was New york really killing as many people as FLORIDA in January/February 2021? Isn't Florida's population many millions larger than New York's!? And Florida famously never shut down, fought mask mandates and denied they had a problem? New York was ****ing shit up worse than them a YEAR into the pandemic? How?
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The population of Florida is 21,477,737 and the population of New York is 19,453,561. Florida peaked at a seven day average of185 deaths per day and New York peaked at a seven day average of 206.

On the other hand, the data coming out of Florida is highly suspicious and has a lengthy history of being manipulated in order to push a political agenda.

21-05-05 J1 - ALL STATES TABLE.JPG
Today’s update of the COVID-19 data is available at Daily Statistical Summary of COVID-19
​
However, I do have to congratulate you on the consistency with which you maintain that the United States of America does not have any COVID-19 problem but only one or two "Blue States" have one.
 
If we are bargaining for shot incentives can we argue for blowjobs?
 
Also, Are you REALLY surprised that a nice chunk of people are scared to inject industrially made stuff into their body and dont trust the average doctor to fully care for them? Especially when they charge ur insurance 300$ just to check your blood pressure and look into your ear and record your weight.
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
The population of Florida is 21,477,737 and the population of New York is 19,453,561. Florida peaked at a seven day average of185 deaths per day and New York peaked at a seven day average of 206.

On the other hand, the data coming out of Florida is highly suspicious and has a lengthy history of being manipulated in order to push a political agenda.

View attachment 67331991
Today’s update of the COVID-19 data is available at Daily Statistical Summary of COVID-19
​
However, I do have to congratulate you on the consistency with which you maintain that the United States of America does not have any COVID-19 problem but only one or two "Blue States" have one.
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Never said the United States never had a problem. Clearly we do, we're among the worst on the planet. It just so happens that the worst states are pretty blue. Probably unrelated, but it is odd to see so many people go off about "red" states when the highest death rates are in "blue" states.

It's almost as if it's dishonest trolling instead of an actual assessment of problem areas.
 
Metric Mouse said:
Holy shit! Was New york really killing as many people as FLORIDA in January/February 2021? Isn't Florida's population many millions larger than New York's!? And Florida famously never shut down, fought mask mandates and denied they had a problem? New York was ****ing shit up worse than them a YEAR into the pandemic? How?
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Florida shut down for the month of April 2020. At least one third of their countries had mask mandates and restaurants had reduced capacity at 25 or 50 percent for many months.
 
minnie616 said:
Florida shut down for the month of April 2020. At least one third of their countries had mask mandates and restaurants had reduced capacity at 25 or 50 percent for many months.
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Thank you for the correction.
 
If people do not want to get the vaccine at this time it is THEIR choice and others should respect their choice. There are some who have had Covid and are learning those who did have Covid and then get the vaccine end up very ill or even death. Just this week another woman in her thirties with 4 small children died of a blood clot just days after receiving the Johnson and Johnson vaccine. What I would really like to see be done is those who have had Covid, be tested for the level of T cells before getting the vaccination. If their body has produced a good immunity, then there should be no reason for them to get the vaccine at this time.

But it is clear that people across this country are well done with all the lockdowns and our kids not in school or forcing kids to wear masks 6 hours a day in school from Kindergarten up. At this point what is being done to our children in my opinion is child abuse. For this charade to continue where the overwhelming majority of teachers have been vaccinated is outrageous. And if they are still afraid to come back to school, give a hungry recent graduate with a teaching degree that is willing to come into the classroom and do their damn job. Parents across this country are well done. Stick a fork in them and they are raising hell.

 
vesper said:
If people do not want to get the vaccine at this time it is THEIR choice and others should respect their choice. There are some who have had Covid and are learning those who did have Covid and then get the vaccine end up very ill or even death. Just this week another woman in her thirties with 4 small children died of a blood clot just days after receiving the Johnson and Johnson vaccine. What I would really like to see be done is those who have had Covid, be tested for the level of T cells before getting the vaccination. If their body has produced a good immunity, then there should be no reason for them to get the vaccine at this time.

But it is clear that people across this country are well done with all the lockdowns and our kids not in school or forcing kids to wear masks 6 hours a day in school from Kindergarten up. At this point what is being done to our children in my opinion is child abuse. For this charade to continue where the overwhelming majority of teachers have been vaccinated is outrageous. And if they are still afraid to come back to school, give a hungry recent graduate with a teaching degree that is willing to come into the classroom and do their damn job. Parents across this country are well done. Stick a fork in them and they are raising hell.

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You are correct that most teachers and staff that want to vaccinated are vaccinated. However , students in Michigan are still wearing masks in school to protect their classmates and keep their school open.

When a school has an outbreak of Covid 19 they need to go remote for 10 days or so.
 
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