Would you give up Gasohol to add 150 million tons of corn to the World food supply?

[Helix]

I'm not a fan. Some imported cars aren't designed to run on 10% even if they say they are.

 

[PirateMk1]

I don’t think it would be. Ethanol is produced from a different strain of corn that cannot be digested by humans

I would advise providing a source for your assertion. The gashol mandate was put in place to allow farmers a way to make higrade animal feed, the mash that is left from the distilling process, and dispose of the resulting ethanol waste.

 

[Luce]

Yes. Gasahol is stupid. It's a waste of water, among other things.

And if you're West of Lake Meade, wasting water is a bit of a thing.

 

[iguanaman]

What NAFTA did was put small growers in Latin America out of business and made the people there dependent on American farms and so had no alternative when price went up.

LOL It was ethanol in gasoline that brought up the price of corn AFTER our corn exports put those farmers out of business because they could not compete with "factory" farm conglomerates. Those conglomerates then used their lobbying money to push ethanol gas on American consumers and that doubled the price of corn. Ethanol is a poor substitute for gasoline. It has less energy per gallon and is corrosive to many materials used in automobiles and other gasoline powered engines. The oil companies like it because it increases octane levels without expensive additives meaning more profits for them too.

 

[BahamaBob]

First of all, the biproducts from making ethanol are used as animal feed. Due to this, it does increase the food supply. Quitting the program will only drive prices down, meaning fewer farmers will raise corn, which means less corn not more. It would also increase the need for gasoline produced from crude oil. This will only exasperate the existing problem and cause energy prices to raise more. Lastly, how much field corn do you think people will eat. According to this article, not much.

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www.ift.org

 

[Deuce]

First of all, the biproducts from making ethanol are used as animal feed. Due to this, it does increase the food supply. Quitting the program will only drive prices down, meaning fewer farmers will raise corn, which means less corn not more. It would also increase the need for gasoline produced from crude oil. This will only exasperate the existing problem and cause energy prices to raise more. Lastly, how much field corn do you think people will eat. According to this article, not much.

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www.ift.org

Solution:

Grow something else.

I should also point out that "increase the need for gasoline produced from crude oil" is misdirection: ethanol takes more energy to create than it gives off when burned, so eliminating ethanol actually reduces our overall energy needs.

 

[BahamaBob]

Solution:

Grow something else.

I should also point out that "increase the need for gasoline produced from crude oil" is misdirection: ethanol takes more energy to create than it gives off when burned, so eliminating ethanol actually reduces our overall energy needs.

First of all, what do you want them to grow? Bear in mind that land suitable to grow corn may not be suitable to grow many other products.

Second, you have no clue what you are talking about.

MYTH: More energy goes into producing ethanol than it delivers as a fuel. FACT: In terms of fossil energy, each gallon of ethanol produced from corn today delivers one third or more energy than is used to produce it. •

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www.energy.gov

Does Ethanol Generate More Energy Than the Amount Needed to Produce It? - Alternative Energy - ProCon.org

[...]Read More...

alternativeenergy.procon.org

Is ethanol energy-efficient? Journey to Forever

journeytoforever.org

 

[coyote505]

First of all, what do you want them to grow? Bear in mind that land suitable to grow corn may not be suitable to grow many other products.

Second, you have no clue what you are talking about.

MYTH: More energy goes into producing ethanol than it delivers as a fuel. FACT: In terms of fossil energy, each gallon of ethanol produced from corn today delivers one third or more energy than is used to produce it. •

Loading…

www.energy.gov

Does Ethanol Generate More Energy Than the Amount Needed to Produce It? - Alternative Energy - ProCon.org

[...]Read More...

alternativeenergy.procon.org

Is ethanol energy-efficient? Journey to Forever

journeytoforever.org

Most land suitable for growing corn can also grow wheat, soybeans and several other edible crops.

IF the gasohol is being produced by the most efficient farmers, and processed by the largest and most efficient distillers, with markets for all by-products, there is a Slight energy surplus to the crop, probably not enough to justify the investment of land and more importantly water to grow it. This tends to be an issue not just west of Lake Mead, but anywhere west of Amarillo, where the Ogalalla acquifer is being rapidly pumped into non-existence. If the gasohol comes from average farms and distillers, the energy balance is a wash. Why waste food for a wash?

 

[BahamaBob]

Most land suitable for growing corn can also grow wheat, soybeans and several other edible crops.

IF the gasohol is being produced by the most efficient farmers, and processed by the largest and most efficient distillers, with markets for all by-products, there is a Slight energy surplus to the crop, probably not enough to justify the investment of land and more importantly water to grow it. This tends to be an issue not just west of Lake Mead, but anywhere west of Amarillo, where the Ogalalla acquifer is being rapidly pumped into non-existence. If the gasohol comes from average farms and distillers, the energy balance is a wash. Why waste food for a wash?

I see you have a reading comprehension problem. The article says nothing about "most efficient" anything. It says there is a significant energy gain by growing corn for ethanol.

The main drain on the Ogallala aquifer is human use not farms. If they stopped allowing millions of illegal aliens into our country it would greatly reduce the strain on our water resources. Second, are you naive enough to think changing crops will lessen water demand.

You are also wrong about using the same land for other crops. Wheat must be grown in dryer locations because it is susceptible to fungus. In addition, there are limits to the needs for different crops. If you pushed all this land into soybean growing the price would drop to nothing, all the farmers would go bankrupt and go out of business, and no one would get any food.

 

[coyote505]

I see you have a reading comprehension problem. The article says nothing about "most efficient" anything. It says there is a significant energy gain by growing corn for ethanol.

The main drain on the Ogallala aquifer is human use not farms. If they stopped allowing millions of illegal aliens into our country it would greatly reduce the strain on our water resources. Second, are you naive enough to think changing crops will lessen water demand.

You are also wrong about using the same land for other crops. Wheat must be grown in dryer locations because it is susceptible to fungus. In addition, there are limits to the needs for different crops. If you pushed all this land into soybean growing the price would drop to nothing, all the farmers would go bankrupt and go out of business, and no one would get any food.

There are articles all over the place on this issue. Years of reading on this indicate that gasohol was initially energy negative, has gradually gotten a better balance on this, When high efficiency producers are involved, but as an overall average is still pretty much a wash.

Human direct use, or even stock watering, pales next to irrigation use. There is some land currently being used for corn which would be better suited to wheat in a non-manipulated market, and would probably use less water. Farmers frequently rotate corn with soybeans and one or more other crops as part of good soil conservation. Use of the land as pasture should also be considered, both to save the soil and water.

The gasohol incentives are leading to cropping decisions which would otherwise be irrational.

Gasohol also makes a crappy motor fuel, both for it's direct corrosive effect on auto parts and its instability in storage. It is not even legal to use it as AVGAS because of reliability problems and is avoided as marine gas wherever possible for the same reason.

 

[BahamaBob]

There are articles all over the place on this issue. Years of reading on this indicate that gasohol was initially energy negative, has gradually gotten a better balance on this, When high efficiency producers are involved, but as an overall average is still pretty much a wash.

Human direct use, or even stock watering, pales next to irrigation use. There is some land currently being used for corn which would be better suited to wheat in a non-manipulated market, and would probably use less water. Farmers frequently rotate corn with soybeans and one or more other crops as part of good soil conservation. Use of the land as pasture should also be considered, both to save the soil and water.

The gasohol incentives are leading to cropping decisions which would otherwise be irrational.

Gasohol also makes a crappy motor fuel, both for it's direct corrosive effect on auto parts and its instability in storage. It is not even legal to use it as AVGAS because of reliability problems and is avoided as marine gas wherever possible for the same reason.

If you don't like it don't use it. If you and enough others who think like you boycott it, it will go away. I'll bet that don't happen.

 

[coyote505]

If you don't like it don't use it. If you and enough others who think like you boycott it, it will go away. I'll bet that don't happen.

I do that whenever real gas is available.

 

[Loulit01]

If you don't like it don't use it. If you and enough others who think like you boycott it, it will go away. I'll bet that don't happen.

You're probably right that it won't happen for several reasons, none of them good. The problem is that you're glad it won't happen instead of upset that it won't happen.

 

[The Mark]

Almost no one eats corn as corn on the cob. It is indigestible to humans. That’s why you shit out the whole kernals.

Field corn is used to make animal feed. It is practically unfit for human consumption

You're not supposed to swallow the kernels whole, ffs.

But yeah, if you do they tend not to digest well. Even cows can't always.
It's why there's usually some form of additional processing to break up the kernels when preparing cows food.

Field corn in kernel form keeps fairly well though, so the processing takes place just before food prep.

You could probably eat field corn if you ground it up to make cornmeal or something. Might not be ideal but it could work.

Edit: As it turns out , apparently the corn used to make ethanol is then also used as feed, so I'm assuming it's broken up too.
Not sure what that food's shelf life is compared to whole kernel dried corn though.

 

[Ren]

In 2021, Ukraine exported enough grain to feed 400 million people. That won't be happening this year.

In 2021, the US harvested 384 million tons of corn. 40% of that, 150 million tons, went into ethanol for Gasohol (E10, E15). This is encouraged by Federal mandates and incentives. If these were eliminated, and consumers made the choice to use old fashioned straight gasoline, that corn would theoretically be available for human consumption. Would you favor doing this?

I heard the corn used for fuels is inedible.

 

[Fledermaus]

Almost no one eats corn as corn on the cob. It is indigestible to humans. That’s why you shit out the whole kernals.

Field corn is used to make animal feed. It is practically unfit for human consumption

Blanket statements are rarely correct .

This one definitely isn't.

 

[Fledermaus]

I heard the corn used for fuels is inedible.

It is after it is processed.

But from the field it is edible.

 

[Fledermaus]

You're not supposed to swallow the kernels whole, ffs.

But yeah, if you do they tend not to digest well. Even cows can't always.
It's why there's usually some form of additional processing to break up the kernels when preparing cows food.

Field corn in kernel form keeps fairly well though, so the processing takes place just before food prep.

You could probably eat field corn if you ground it up to make cornmeal or something. Might not be ideal but it could work.

Edit: As it turns out , apparently the corn used to make ethanol is then also used as feed, so I'm assuming it's broken up too.
Not sure what that food's shelf life is compared to whole kernel dried corn though.

When the US started the corn to gas garbage it impacted Mexico as cornmeal prices jumped a great deal leading to unrest to the point their government subsidized corn for some time.

 

[coyote505]

It is after it is processed.

But from the field it is edible.

Corn is usually edible for people with straight teeth. Limeys are out of luck!