aquapub said:
But when was the last time Canada innovated something to improve healthcare?
I don't have the answer to that question. My best guess would be the group that managed to decode the genetic alphabet. No doubt the US has contributed much more than Canada (and the rest of the world, I think) when it comes to health research. Keep in mind though, we have a much smaller population.
How unproductive is Canada's economy as a result of the country's welfare state policies like that? I know the numbers on Europe and Canada is not much better.
I have no idea what you're asking here. Can you please clarify?
And why all the snide personal attacks on Navy Pride? It IS relevant, accurate, and disturbing that he knows somebody in that situation-and that the situation he was describing is COMMON under Canada's dysfunctional system.
Hmmmm... why was I being snide? Well for one, Pride usually blow "facts" out of his ass. He has a habit of posting nothing but rhetoric and stuff he hears on Limbaugh and Savage. He never seem to have the time to post a link to back-up his statements. And frankly, I don't believe him. I base my opinion on what I've seem written by him, here at this forum. So you might call it snide... that's fine. I call it "a spade is a spade" and I'm not afraid to call him on it.
And it seems to me that you've taken a page right out of Navy's playbook. Without any link or concrete fact, you have no problems calling Canada's health system dysfunctional. So please allow me to correct that statement... with... oh my God!... hard facts! (What a concept!)
<snip>
The statistics paint a starkly different picture. In 1971, the year that all ten provinces adopted universal hospital and medical insurance programs, Canadian health care costs consumed 7.4 percent of national income in Canada, compared to 7.6 percent in the United States. In the thirty years since, however, Americans' health care expenditures as a percentage of Gross Domestic Product (GDP) have nearly doubled - to 14 percent - while Canadians' have remained relatively stable, increasing only to about 9 percent. And despite its high cost, the U.S. system fails to insure more than 44 million of its citizens. Some analysts predict that figure will grow to 60 million by 2008.
Canada's system is not only efficient; it is immensely popular. A 1993 Gallup Poll found that
96 percent of Canadians prefer their health care system to that of the United States. As Saskatchewan doctor E.W. Barootes, originally an opponent of universal health care, puts it, "today a politician in Saskatchewan or in Canada is more likely to get away with canceling Christmas than ... with canceling Canada's health insurance program."
In a 1998 poll conducted in the five major English-speaking countries (Australia, Canada, New Zealand, U.K., U.S.), 24 percent of Canadians thought they received excellent care in the past twelve months: the highest figure out of the five countries. Nineteen percent of Americans felt that they had received excellent care, which tied for third with Australia.
<snip>
There are more juicy tidbits here:
http://www.newrules.org/journal/nrwin01health.html
Now as I've said in my previous post, I fully realize that there are problems with our system. I'm not going to pretent that everything is hunky-dory. In fact, I believe our system has declined in the last 10 years or so. That said, I would think that "dysfuctional" and as Navy so gracefully stated "disaster" are quite an exaggeration of the truth. To say the least. :roll:
I have heard many similar stories and I know many European countries have to fly their patients over here to get adequate care. And you are acting like our systems are at all comparable just because ours is expensive? At least we GET care, and care that's worth a damn. And in first aid situations, doctors still have to see patients (even illegal immigrants) that can't pay for it anyways.
With every story of a Canadian going to the US for care, I have a similar one about an American coming to Canada. You gotta do what you gotta do.
And how's this for an eye-opener?
<snip>
Want a health tip? Move to Canada.
An impressive array of data shows that Canadians live longer, healthier lives than we do. What's more, they pay roughly half as much per capita as we do ($2,163 versus $4,887 in 2001) for the privilege.
The summary of the evidence has to be that national health insurance has improved the health of Canadians and is responsible for some of the longer life expectancy.
Dr. Steffie Woolhandler, an associate professor at Harvard Medical School
Exactly why Canadians fare better is the subject of considerable academic debate. Some policy experts say it's Canada's single-payer, universal health coverage system. Some think it's because our neighbors to the north use fewer illegal drugs and shoot each other less often with guns (though they smoke and drink with gusto, albeit somewhat less than Americans).
Still others think Canadians are healthier because their medical system is tilted more toward primary care doctors and less toward specialists. And some believe it's something more fundamental: a smaller gap between rich and poor.
Perhaps it's all of the above. But there's no arguing the basics.
"By all measures, Canadians' health is better," says Dr. Barbara Starfield, a university distinguished professor at Johns Hopkins Medical Institutions. Canadians "do better on a whole variety of health outcomes," she says, including life expectancy at various ages.
According to a World Health Organization report published in 2003, life expectancy at birth in Canada is 79.8 years, versus 77.3 in the U.S. (Japan's is 81.9.)
"There isn't a single measure in which the U.S. excels in the health arena," says Dr. Stephen Bezruchka, a senior lecturer in the School of Public Health at the University of Washington in Seattle. "We spend half of the world's healthcare bill and we are less healthy than all the other rich countries."
"Fifty-five years ago, we were one of the healthiest countries in the world," Bezruchka continues. "What changed? We have increased the gap between rich and poor. Nothing determines the health of a population [more] than the gap between rich and poor."
<snip>
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0223-01.htm
So, Aqua, you cannot read the above with an open mind and still think that Canada's healthcare system is dysfuctional. I'm certain that Navy will complete ignore the links and once again spit rhetoric and exaggerations about his neighbour's friend's cousin's dog's uncle's co-worker who has a Canadian friend who had a bad healthcare experience. Not sure about you... I don't know your writings well enough.
