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Would the Supreme Court eliminating the Affordable Care Act be a "big win for the USA"?

Would the Supreme Court eliminating the Affordable Care Act be a "big win for the USA"?


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Greenbeard

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If you are diagnosed with a terminal disease, for example, and then attempt to get health insurance, you should either be denied or required to pay exorbitant premiums to cover the cost of treatment.
There's an election coming up, sell that!
 

Nickyjo

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Obamacare is not a health provider. The others you name collect taxes and deliver an actual service.
Read this as a “reply to thread,” as I can’t find that option on the new DP site.
Ok, conservatives. What is it with your opposition to government sponsored health care? We already have national healthcare in the form of Medicare, Medicaid, the VA, and the various systems that cover state employees. What’s that, 100 million? 150 million people covered by govt? Support of government healthcare is politically like acknowledgement of human caused climate change: It seems that the political parties in every other developed country in the world with the exception of a portion of the US’s GOP accept the suitability of government health care. Reagan’s 1960 screed that Medicare would make us slaves, or the right’s warning about “creeping socialism” in the 50’s seem charmingly quaint. Did you pay attention at all to domestic policy in the 20th century? Instead of the government feeding only corporations at its trough as in the 19th century, it let working people have some grub in the 20th. Obamacare’s just a continuation of that trend Teddy R started. To paraphrase Will Rogers (“we are all ignorant, except on different subjects”), we are all socialists, except on different subjects. The GOP mantra pre ACA was “No need. America has the best healthcare system in the world.” Now it’s “repeal and replace.” Obama’s unchanging legacy is that he moved the needle in the debate. Creeping socialism, indeed!
 

Glitch

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We can always depend on you to point out why we have the most expensive and overpriced healthcare in the world and why so many cannot afford coverage. It's because our founders decided 250 years ago that America must always suck eggs and be at a disadvantage compared to other democracies. Thanks again for pointing out why we are screwed.
Very well, I will point out why we have the most expensive and overpriced healthcare in the world and why so many cannot afford coverage: Unconstitutional federal government interference.

Beginning with MediCare/MedicAid in 1965. Since MediCare/MedicAid only pay healthcare providers pennies on the dollar, the cost of doing business must be picked up by the consumer. That is reflected in both higher medical costs and higher insurance premiums. Had the national socialist Democrats not interfered with capitalism, medical costs would have remained low (or at least what the market will bear) and there would be much more competition, which also helps keep consumer prices low.

If you truly want affordable healthcare, get the damn federal government out of our healthcare where they have no constitutional authority being in the first place.

Only national socialists anti-Americans support "M4A."
 

Nickyjo

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Obamacare is not a health provider. The others you name collect taxes and deliver an actual service.
So what’s your point? Obamacare is sort of a republican version of government assisted health care. The democratic version would be Medicare for all. In Obama’s time, there wasn’t even the political will for a public option. Obama was given lemons. He made lemonade. Republicans now agree we need something, which is Obama’s lasting political triumph and legacy.
 

Glitch

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There's an election coming up, sell that!
No need, the States have already taken steps to abolish the unconstitutional Affordable Care Act of 2010, and the new session of the Supreme Court begins in 8 days. Soon there will be 6 conservative justices and only 3 leftist judges. That will make their decision pretty easy to predict.
 

Nickyjo

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You are mistaken. That is precisely what the Sebelius opinion held.


Congress cannot force any MediCare/MedicAid mandate on any State. Every State has a choice due to dual-sovereignty. The Supreme Court made that very same decision in Printz v. United States, 521 U.S. 898 (1997) as well. Congress cannot impose mandates on any State, including "MediCare for All."
And yet they did.
 

EnigmaO01

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The Affordable Care Act is/was based on a lie: “If you like your health plan, you can keep it.”

Millions of Americans LOST their health plan. We lost ours. Before the ACA, we had very good (and AFFORDABLE) health plans, but our plans didn't meet ACA standards. So we got dumped. :mad:

The ACA needs to be repealed. Trump promised to crush the ACA during his 2016 campaign. He's had 4 years - - - he needs to make good on his promise to the people who want our health plans back.

I don't want the government to dictate the terms of my health plan. My doctor and I can figure that out.

When it comes to health care, one size does NOT fit all.
Millions eh? I don't suppose you can document that?

Odd I don't now anyone that got on ACA that lost their doctors. I do know of one case where an insurance company tried to dump a client by claiming they were't keeping up with their premiums, which was a lie.
 

Nickyjo

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Very well, I will point out why we have the most expensive and overpriced healthcare in the world and why so many cannot afford coverage: Unconstitutional federal government interference.

Beginning with MediCare/MedicAid in 1965. Since MediCare/MedicAid only pay healthcare providers pennies on the dollar, the cost of doing business must be picked up by the consumer. That is reflected in both higher medical costs and higher insurance premiums. Had the national socialist Democrats not interfered with capitalism, medical costs would have remained low (or at least what the market will bear) and there would be much more competition, which also helps keep consumer prices low.

If you truly want affordable healthcare, get the damn federal government out of our healthcare where they have no constitutional authority being in the first place.

Only national socialists anti-Americans support "M4A."
Oh yeah, capitalism is perfect. Just ask the kids who worked in mines or the women who jumped to their deaths in the Triangle Shirtwaist fire. And after you bring America to its senses with this notion, you can go off to Europe, Canada, Mexico and elsewhere and spread your gospel, ending all this foolishness. What is constitutional is what the courts say it is. Have you tried suing to get rid of all these annoyances?
Btw, I am uninsurable and would be broke without Medicare. Thank you for your contribution, however reluctantly given. “No man is an island,” and all that.
 

Glitch

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Oh yeah, capitalism is perfect. Just ask the kids who worked in mines or the women who jumped to their deaths in the Triangle Shirtwaist fire. And after you bring America to its senses with this notion, you can go off to Europe, Canada, Mexico and elsewhere and spread your gospel, ending all this foolishness. What is constitutional is what the courts say it is. Have you tried suing to get rid of all these annoyances?
Not perfect, just one hell of a lot better than National Socialism. Particularly when that National Socialism comes packaged with "identity politics." Just ask the Jews.

Btw, I am uninsurable and would be broke without Medicare. Thank you for your contribution, however reluctantly given. “No man is an island,” and all that.
I haven't contributed to MediCare/MedicAid, or any federal program, since 2013. I have no taxable income.
 

iguanaman

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Very well, I will point out why we have the most expensive and overpriced healthcare in the world and why so many cannot afford coverage: Unconstitutional federal government interference.

Beginning with MediCare/MedicAid in 1965. Since MediCare/MedicAid only pay healthcare providers pennies on the dollar, the cost of doing business must be picked up by the consumer. That is reflected in both higher medical costs and higher insurance premiums. Had the national socialist Democrats not interfered with capitalism, medical costs would have remained low (or at least what the market will bear) and there would be much more competition, which also helps keep consumer prices low.

If you truly want affordable healthcare, get the damn federal government out of our healthcare where they have no constitutional authority being in the first place.

Only national socialists anti-Americans support "M4A."
The reason the Govt. started Medicare is that the insurers would not cover people over 65 because of the risk that they might have to pay out. The reason for the ACA is pretty much the same, millions were left unable to afford coverage. For profit health insurance is only for healthy. Sick people need not apply. When you get sick they no longer want you as a customer. That is not at all what this country needs or wants. That is all that counts there is nothing in the Constitution that prevents us from covering all Americans like every other western nation already does with great success.
 

Nickyjo

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Not perfect, just one hell of a lot better than National Socialism. Particularly when that National Socialism comes packaged with "identity politics." Just ask the Jews.


I haven't contributed to MediCare/MedicAid, or any federal program, since 2013. I have no taxable income.
Good for you. I withdraw my gratitude. I presume you plan to put out your own fires rather than call the Fire Dept.

Funny, but the president who fought the national socialists also saved capitalism from itself, filing down its rough edges, and established the pattern for useful, now unassailable government benefits and protections that persist to this day and are present in all developed countries, many those who suffered under and fought the Nazis. You can bask in the joyful memory of Coolidge. I prefer FDR. What is it about some on the right that they keep fighting 1930s battles, seeing things like worker protections, Social Security, etc., as tyranny? The world has moved on, but there are still folks like Paul Ryan, who said that he dreamed in college of getting rid of Medicaid.
 

Nickyjo

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Not perfect, just one hell of a lot better than National Socialism. Particularly when that National Socialism comes packaged with "identity politics." Just ask the Jews.


I haven't contributed to MediCare/MedicAid, or any federal program, since 2013. I have no taxable income.
I asked. Jews are understandable participants in identity politics. Just ask Israel.
 

TU Curmudgeon

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I want the magical Trump plan that does all this and more and is cheaper!
It's the plan that I (and every other Canadian [some caveats with respect to the prescription drug costs part]) have (from birth if you are born in Canada) - admittedly it doesn't necessarily cover expenses outside of Canada - and Canada spends around $4,754.95 per capita for healthcare while the US spends around $10,246.14 per capita for healthcare. The Canadian healthcare system is rated as at least as good as the US healthcare system.

Mr. Trump has taken a careful look at the US healthcare insurance situation and he has found that everyone in his family has excellent healthcare insurance because of the choices that they made. If some Americans choose to make different choices (like choosing not to be born rich), then that is not really his problem - nor is it the nation's problem - is it?
 

TU Curmudgeon

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Millions and millions more got insurance than had it before. And it was better insurance, since the companies couldn't reject you for having a pre-existing condition, set a lifetime cap on payouts, etc.

You're trying to pretend that if someone had to get a different plan because the old one was one of those vaporware plans that weren't compliant with the ACA, that means they lost insurance. They didn't lose insurance. The plans just got changed around.

If ACA was so bad, the GOP would have come up with something better in the last ten years. They have jack shit.
When people slam Mr. Obama for saying "If you like your insurance you can keep it." they conveniently overlook the fact that whether or not you could actually keep your plan was contingent on the insurance companies either offering it, or allowing you to re-enroll in it, or not changing the premiums so that you could no longer afford it.

Changing the required content of the insurance programs was legislatively equivalent to changing the speed limit on a street when a new school was built on it.
 

Glitch

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The reason the Govt. started Medicare is that the insurers would not cover people over 65 because of the risk that they might have to pay out. The reason for the ACA is pretty much the same, millions were left unable to afford coverage. For profit health insurance is only for healthy. Sick people need not apply. When you get sick they no longer want you as a customer. That is not at all what this country needs or wants. That is all that counts there is nothing in the Constitution that prevents us from covering all Americans like every other western nation already does with great success.
I don't give a damn why Democrat filth intentionally violated the US Constitution. There is a never a good a excuse for violating the Supreme Law of the Land, but Democrats do it every damn day. It is their illegal actions that caused medical costs to soar and insurance premiums to skyrocket. It is not the place of the federal government to involve itself in our healthcare.
 

Robertinfremont

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Read this as a “reply to thread,” as I can’t find that option on the new DP site.
Ok, conservatives. What is it with your opposition to government sponsored health care? We already have national healthcare in the form of Medicare, Medicaid, the VA, and the various systems that cover state employees. What’s that, 100 million? 150 million people covered by govt? Support of government healthcare is politically like acknowledgement of human caused climate change: It seems that the political parties in every other developed country in the world with the exception of a portion of the US’s GOP accept the suitability of government health care. Reagan’s 1960 screed that Medicare would make us slaves, or the right’s warning about “creeping socialism” in the 50’s seem charmingly quaint. Did you pay attention at all to domestic policy in the 20th century? Instead of the government feeding only corporations at its trough as in the 19th century, it let working people have some grub in the 20th. Obamacare’s just a continuation of that trend Teddy R started. To paraphrase Will Rogers (“we are all ignorant, except on different subjects”), we are all socialists, except on different subjects. The GOP mantra pre ACA was “No need. America has the best healthcare system in the world.” Now it’s “repeal and replace.” Obama’s unchanging legacy is that he moved the needle in the debate. Creeping socialism, indeed!
ACA flat turns you down for the program once you earn more than $37,000. ACA is not a health care provider. It made up rules. Rules must be reversed.

When i receive Medicare, my provider can't limit me and the Govt. pays the doctor or hospital. I have been using a Nurse Practitioner as a doctor so the health provider gets to pay lower wages.

Think of it this way to clear it all up.

Make the ACA a program to get fuel to all of us.

And the fuel costs a hell of a lot per gallon. So the ACA imposes on the sellers they must lose money. And the ACA does it by severely undercutting payments to the doctors, or to use the case on fuel, to the owner of the station and the oil company.

Quality of service has to decline. They can't provide top rated service on such low incomes.
 

Jason Warfield

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Trump helpfully reminds the voters this morning he's going to court the week after the election to ask the Supreme Court to eliminate the entire Affordable Care Act. Things like pre-existing condition protections, tax credits to help people afford premiums, Medicaid expansion, Medicare reforms, funds for training health care providers and investing in public health, all gone.

Is he right that winding the clock back a decade plus would be a "big win" for the U.S.?

Trump says elimination of Obamacare would be a ‘win for the USA’
No. Because the GOP in Congress has no plan, nor is willing to replace it. They had ample opportunities to do it and chose not to. Trump does not have a plan. But it doesn't matter because he needs Congress to get whatever is in his mind through...and they won't.

And for those of you who call any Supreme Court decision you don't like as judicial activism...this is what Trump is asking them to do. If you believe that the Supreme Court does not have the power to over-rule laws passed by states or Congress...this is what Trump is asking the them to do.

If you are okay with that, then in the future, you don't get to b1tch when the Supreme Court makes a decision you don't like. You lost your ethical standards if you are okay with that.
 

rickc

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I don't give a damn why Democrat filth intentionally violated the US Constitution. There is a never a good a excuse for violating the Supreme Law of the Land, but Democrats do it every damn day. It is their illegal actions that caused medical costs to soar and insurance premiums to skyrocket. It is not the place of the federal government to involve itself in our healthcare.
Quite an interesting observation. I would assume that for you the cost of your healthcare is trivial.
 

Phys251

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You QUOTE me, and then ignore the answer already provided. :rolleyes:

Let me make it easier for you:



They did not know him as a political insider. No years of wheeling and dealing with the inner circles of power. Making debts, and accruing favors.

They simply did not know how to handle him, have any methods to control him, or know how much support he might actually have among the Republican base.
Your president has had nearly four years to come up with an improvement to Obamacare. Hell, during half that time you Republicans had total control of the legislative process.

That whole time, that entire time, the best you people could come up with is "Obamacare bad!!"

Nothing tangible to improve it. Nothing. Just "Obamacare bad!!"
 

iguanaman

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I don't give a damn why Democrat filth intentionally violated the US Constitution. There is a never a good a excuse for violating the Supreme Law of the Land, but Democrats do it every damn day. It is their illegal actions that caused medical costs to soar and insurance premiums to skyrocket. It is not the place of the federal government to involve itself in our healthcare.
What you don't give a damn about is the health of the American people. There is no way we should trust it to corporations that put profit and their shareholders over saving lives and keeping Americans out of bankruptcy.
 

Nickyjo

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ACA flat turns you down for the program once you earn more than $37,000. ACA is not a health care provider. It made up rules. Rules must be reversed.

When i receive Medicare, my provider can't limit me and the Govt. pays the doctor or hospital. I have been using a Nurse Practitioner as a doctor so the health provider gets to pay lower wages.

Think of it this way to clear it all up.

Make the ACA a program to get fuel to all of us.

And the fuel costs a hell of a lot per gallon. So the ACA imposes on the sellers they must lose money. And the ACA does it by severely undercutting payments to the doctors, or to use the case on fuel, to the owner of the station and the oil company.

Quality of service has to decline. They can't provide top rated service on such low incomes.
So let's amend the law or replace it If un-amendable. Obama won't mind. As I noted in some messages, this was a conservative/republican-based plan. Democrats couldn't even get a public option into the program, such was the power of insurance companies. As things stand now, my wife's pre-existing condition will be covered when she looks for insurance post-COBRA. I like that, as does she.

But the larger question remains unanswered: on the three significant domestic federal govt benefits programs of the last 100 years, the GOP voted in great numbers for Social Security, significant but fewer numbers for Medicare/Medicaid, and not at all for the ACA, a program that had some republican roots and preserved private insurance. What explains this total retreat from advocacy for the common good? Did they hate Obama that much?
 

Robertinfremont

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So let's amend the law or replace it If un-amendable. Obama won't mind. As I noted in some messages, this was a conservative/republican-based plan. Democrats couldn't even get a public option into the program, such was the power of insurance companies. As things stand now, my wife's pre-existing condition will be covered when she looks for insurance post-COBRA. I like that, as does she.

But the larger question remains unanswered: on the three significant domestic federal govt benefits programs of the last 100 years, the GOP voted in great numbers for Social Security, significant but fewer numbers for Medicare/Medicaid, and not at all for the ACA, a program that had some republican roots and preserved private insurance. What explains this total retreat from advocacy for the common good? Did they hate Obama that much?
That is similar to saying the republicans wanted sex with their own wives so the cure was she has sex with strangers.

What I am saying here is the plan claimed to be republican in nature was created not by republicans, but by Democrats living in Massachusetts. Due to the party of the Governor, when he signed it, suddenly it became all republicans. Truth be told it is a Democrat dream come true.

One nifty thing about states are they like the Fed Government are sovereign in nature.

The ACA to put it as did my doctor in Fremont, CA was a clumsy attempt to solve a problem. As we all know, when discussing medicare and social security, we do not question the benefits, we question if the feds can afford to pay them.

With the ACA, the very nature of the law is back up for question at our highest court.
 
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