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Worst U.S. Presidents.

Which were the worst U.S. Presidnts?


  • Total voters
    43
SouthernDemocrat said:
Your revisionist history doesn't fly.

The top tax rate when Kennedy went into office was 91%, he only cut it down to 70%. Hardly a conservative. Could you imagine if someone proposed that we have a 70% tax rate for the top bracket today?

Howard Dean while Governor of Vermont signed two taxcuts. Do you think that Howard Dean is a conservative?
Excellent post! Excellent rebuttal to the stupidity of the previous post that suggested that JFK was/would be a conservative!

It also underlines how someone can manipulate the truth (JFK signed a tax cut) into a talking point that supported their convoluted theory. I'm guessing that the poster in question probably had no clue that the tax cut (for the rich as he wrote) was from 91% to 70%!

I'll tell you one place that our current President is the antithesis of a Conservative, namely his fiscal policies. He's so far to the left when it comes to spending and balancing budgets.

Good post SD!
 
26 X World Champs said:
JFK was and will always be a LIBERAL DEMOCRAT!

Get with the program. The word "liberal" as it's used today didn't the same thing 50 years ago, and it had a totally different meaning 50 years before that.

Does any liberal today support anything resembling a tax cut? Hell no. But Kennedy's tax cut fueled economic growth in the sixties.

Did any politician in 1960 support the notion of "America is always wrong"? Hell no, but listen to the Deaniacs and the Kerry Klowns.

So you're taking what Kennedy says out of context. Tell you the truth, if Kennedy ran today as exactly the JFK he was in 1960, and his opponents were the best the Republicans could offer, JFK would be branded as an extreme right winger. And that global leftward shift is what has ruined this country.
 
Scarecrow Akhbar said:
Get with the program. The word "liberal" as it's used today didn't the same thing 50 years ago, and it had a totally different meaning 50 years before that.

Does any liberal today support anything resembling a tax cut? Hell no. But Kennedy's tax cut fueled economic growth in the sixties.
Really? Why don't you read this great post by Southern Democrat and then post again...

http://www.debatepolitics.com/showpost.php?p=113520&postcount=50

If you take the same stance as Navy Pride does in his posts you're doomed to being wrong almost every time....Maybe ypu need to find a new program to get with?
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
The top tax rate when Kennedy went into office was 91%, he only cut it down to 70%. Hardly a conservative. Could you imagine if someone proposed that we have a 70% tax rate for the top bracket today?

Could you imagine what the left would say if anyone proposed cutting current tax rates buy 23%?

Our current top rate is what? 35%, so the rate would drop to about 27%? Man, that would cause a flood of money into the treasury, but the politicians who see the tax code as a means of social division would scream.
 
26 X World Champs said:
Really? Why don't you read this great post by Southern Democrat and then post again...

http://www.debatepolitics.com/showpost.php?p=113520&postcount=50

If you take the same stance as Navy Pride does in his posts you're doomed to being wrong almost every time....Maybe ypu need to find a new program to get with?

You should learn to think for yourself and then you'd see the flaws in that post, which I'd responded to independently of your prodding, BTW.

Besides which, you need to address MY posts, not make snide comparisons between navy veterans that I suspect you're not qualified to make.
 
26 X World Champs said:
I'm not trying to be disagreeable but Presidents sign bills only AFTER they are ratified by Congress, plus JFK was assinated in 1963...

Well, whatever! LBJ and JFK didn't want to do anything with it before 64'. I just misread the text is all. They were discussing it and didn't think it would go thru. Then Kennedy was assassinated.
 
Scarecrow Akhbar said:
Could you imagine what the left would say if anyone proposed cutting current tax rates buy 23%?
:spin: :2rofll:
Serious backpedal! You're twisting words to suit your purposes, too bad that does not change the truth.

What you wrote in your last post was:
Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar
Get with the program. The word "liberal" as it's used today didn't the same thing 50 years ago, and it had a totally different meaning 50 years before that.

Does any liberal today support anything resembling a tax cut? Hell no.
You asked if any "liberal today support anything resembling a tax cut?" Southern Democrat posted that Howard Dean had as governor of Vermont. That seems to totally rebut your untrue statement, doesn't it? You can ignore the truth, but the people in this community are way smart enough to know that what you wrote was wrong, partisan, and has no basis in reality.

Spinning words to make a point is not a debating tactic most people employ because it's always so easy to rebut and prove wrong.
 
Scarecrow Akhbar said:
Could you imagine what the left would say if anyone proposed cutting current tax rates buy 23%?

Our current top rate is what? 35%, so the rate would drop to about 27%? Man, that would cause a flood of money into the treasury, but the politicians who see the tax code as a means of social division would scream.
He cut the taxes because the war debt was almost all retired when he took office and his economists told him that if he did not cut the tax rates, that the public sector would end up slowing the velocity of money in the economy. What conservative would have left the top tax rate at 70%? When Reagan came into office, the top tax rate was still 70%. Reagan being a conservative cut it down to what 28% if I am not mistaken.

The right wing rags where you get all this revisionist history would serve society better as toilet paper. Kennedy was a New Deal Democrat. He was damn near as liberal as the late Paul Wellstone. I swear, if you could figure out a way of selling it, you guys on the radical right would try to paint FDR and Truman as conservatives. The problem on the radical right is that history almost always proves them wrong in the end so they are stuck inventing their own version of it.
 
26 X World Champs said:
Dude, do you have issues with reading or something? My post were JFK's own words. They are indisputable. Only someone who is unable to read and understand that post would suggest that JFK wasn't a Liberal! It's amazing that you're unable to understand a post that is a direct speech from JFK!

You never cease to amaze me! I post JFK's acceptance speech to the LIBERAL PARTY of NY in 1960 and you dispute those words as untrue!

I must admit that the ignorance of your posts does amuse me! Your posts provide me with more laughs than "The Daily Show" which I think is hilarious.

The fact that you're older than I am means $hit Navy Pride. I was around when JFK was assasinated too, but even if I were not I am smart enough to know that even someone with a below average IQ can read JFK's speech, his own words, written by him and that are a matter of public record and know that every single thing that you've written on the subject is wrong, wrong, wrong.

You're a frickin' genius Navy Pride!

3 presidents pushed major tax cuts when they were president..Kennedy, Reagan, and our present president...what part of that do you not understand?

Liberals don't give the people back their money..they want more of it.......
 
26 X World Champs said:
:spin: :2rofll:
Serious backpedal! You're twisting words to suit your purposes, too bad that does not change the truth.

What you wrote in your last post was:

You asked if any "liberal today support anything resembling a tax cut?" Southern Democrat posted that Howard Dean had as governor of Vermont. That seems to totally rebut your untrue statement, doesn't it? You can ignore the truth, but the people in this community are way smart enough to know that what you wrote was wrong, partisan, and has no basis in reality.

Spinning words to make a point is not a debating tactic most people employ because it's always so easy to rebut and prove wrong.

Hmm...did Howie campaign on cutting taxes in 2004 or is something missing from your argument. Howie may or may not have signed such a bill for VERMONT, I don't pay a lot attention to insignificant states. You can be assured that if Howie did sign that bill that it was because he had no choice, because of strictly local Varmint politics. On the national level Howie was a Red Star winning class warrior, a true Hero of the Soviet Union...er...Hero of the Unions, I mean.

I take you haven't been paying much attention to the hot gas that comes from the lefties in Washington who're adding significantly to global warming by the noise they're making about reducing taxes whenever the subject comes up?

What does the national Rat Platform say about lowering taxes? I'm guessing it'll be some socialist screed about "fair shares" and "evil rich white guys".
 
If JFK were alive today he would be a democrat along the lines of the great Zell Miller..........
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
He cut the taxes because the war debt was almost all retired when he took office and his economists told him that if he did not cut the tax rates, that the public sector would end up slowing the velocity of money in the economy. What conservative would have left the top tax rate at 70%? When Reagan came into office, the top tax rate was still 70%. Reagan being a conservative cut it down to what 28% if I am not mistaken.

The right wing rags where you get all this revisionist history would serve society better as toilet paper. Kennedy was a New Deal Democrat. He was damn near as liberal as the late Paul Wellstone. I swear, if you could figure out a way of selling it, you guys on the radical right would try to paint FDR and Truman as conservatives. The problem on the radical right is that history almost always proves them wrong in the end so they are stuck inventing their own version of it.

Yes, even in 1960 the economists could understand the Laffer Curve, even though that name for the notion hadn't been coined yet.

Hey, if you want to paint that incompetent boob JFK as a flare-lit gasoline soaked liberal, be my guest. I'm not sure what you win by doing so, but I certainly can't object when you take the losers over to your side.

Outside of cutting taxes, what did JFK do?

That was actually beneficial for the country? He mooned us. What else?
 
Navy Pride said:
If JFK were alive today he would be a democrat along the lines of the great Zell Miller..........
Wrong again...you're still batting 1.000!

Do you have issues with reading comprehension? It just seems, based on your posts, that you have no comprehension of what other people write. Your posts do not reflect any knowledge of the facts presented.

Comparing JFK to Zell Miller is almost as dumb as when you wrote that JFK would be a Conservative if he were still alive. What's so funny about your posts is that you seem to never use facts, ever. You just make $hit up. People post facts with links and you ignore them and then write posts that when read indicate that you just have no comprehension of what you're debating.

You're a frickin' genius.
 
Scarecrow Akhbar said:
Hmm...did Howie campaign on cutting taxes in 2004 or is something missing from your argument. Howie may or may not have signed such a bill for VERMONT, I don't pay a lot attention to insignificant states. You can be assured that if Howie did sign that bill that it was because he had no choice, because of strictly local Varmint politics. On the national level Howie was a Red Star winning class warrior, a true Hero of the Soviet Union...er...Hero of the Unions, I mean.

I take you haven't been paying much attention to the hot gas that comes from the lefties in Washington who're adding significantly to global warming by the noise they're making about reducing taxes whenever the subject comes up?

What does the national Rat Platform say about lowering taxes? I'm guessing it'll be some socialist screed about "fair shares" and "evil rich white guys".

You know, you and Navy Pride really give me an intellectual superiority complex. It is your ridiculous contention that JFK was a conservative. Your evidence of his being a conservative is that he cut taxes.

Never mind the fact the he referred to himself as a New Deal Democrat, ideologically completely on par with FDR.

Never mind the fact the he was staunchly pro-labor.

Never mind the fact the he referred to himself as a proud liberal.

Never mind the fact that he was not well liked at all in Texas because he was a northeastern liberal and the conservative Democrats in Texas and much of the south for that matter could not stand him.

Never mind the fact that as a congressman, he was one of the most liberal members of the House of Representatives.

Never mind the fact that Medicare was a program originally promoted by JFK yet had stalled in congress and was eventually passed after his assassination.

Never mind the fact that JFK was a huge supporter of federal aid for education and teachers salaries.

So you are telling us, that New Deal Democrat, who was staunchly Pro-Labor / Union, who was disliked by southern conservative Democrats who saw him as a Northeastern Liberal, who while in the House of Representatives was one of the most liberal members, who essentially gave us Medicare and who had originally proposed many of the programs that eventually became known as Johnson’s Great Society, and who was a huge supporter of federal aid for education and teachers salaries was a Conservative????

Moreover, those tax cuts in Vermont that Howard Dean signed into law were proposed by Howard Dean, and being that Vermont had a Democratic Majority in its legislator, Howard Dean had to gain the support of pro-business Republicans in Vermont in order to get the legislation passed for those tax cuts. Yet no liberal would ever cut taxes huh????
 
26 X World Champs said:
Wrong again...you're still batting 1.000!

Do you have issues with reading comprehension? It just seems, based on your posts, that you have no comprehension of what other people write. Your posts do not reflect any knowledge of the facts presented.

Comparing JFK to Zell Miller is almost as dumb as when you wrote that JFK would be a Conservative if he were still alive. What's so funny about your posts is that you seem to never use facts, ever. You just make $hit up. People post facts with links and you ignore them and then write posts that when read indicate that you just have no comprehension of what you're debating.

You're a frickin' genius.

Well lets see:

Miller: Pro Tax Cuts
JFK: Pro Tax Cut

Miller: Pro States rights
JFK: Pro States rights

Miller: Pro 2nd Amendment
JFK: Pro end Amendment

Miller: Pro Death Penalty
JFK: Pro Death Penalty

Miller: Pro Life
JFK: Pro Life

Miller: Pro Strong military
JFK: Pro Strong military

As someone mentioned to you A liberal in 1960 is not the same as a liberal in 2005........JFK would turn over in his grave if he could see what people like you have done to the democratic party........
 
Navy Pride said:
Well lets see:

Miller: Pro Tax Cuts
JFK: Pro Tax Cut

Miller: Pro States rights
JFK: Pro States rights

Miller: Pro 2nd Amendment
JFK: Pro end Amendment

Miller: Pro Death Penalty
JFK: Pro Death Penalty

Miller: Pro Life
JFK: Pro Life

Miller: Pro Strong military
JFK: Pro Strong military

As someone mentioned to you A liberal in 1960 is not the same as a liberal in 2005........JFK would turn over in his grave if he could see what people like you have done to the democratic party........
It was the cold war, everyone was strong on defense. LBJ was stronger on Defense than JFK. Was LBJ a conservative?

FDR was stronger on defense than Reagan, was FDR conservative?

JFK was pro civil rights. That sure as hell was not pro-states rights in the 1960s.

Howard Dean had a 100% rating from the NRA, is Howard Dean a conservative?

Have we ever had a President Democrat or Republican that was not for the Death Penalty? I know Clinton was a big death penalty supporter, was Clinton a conservative?

JFK was pro-Federal Education Spending. Is that conservative?

JFK was the president who originally proposed most of what became The Great Society, including Medicare? Is that conservative?
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
It was the cold war, everyone was strong on defense. LBJ was stronger on Defense than JFK. Was LBJ a conservative?

FDR was stronger on defense than Reagan, was FDR conservative?

JFK was pro civil rights. That sure as hell was not pro-states rights in the 1960s.

Howard Dean had a 100% rating from the NRA, is Howard Dean a conservative?

Have we ever had a President Democrat or Republican that was not for the Death Penalty? I know Clinton was a big death penalty supporter, was Clinton a conservative?

JFK was pro-Federal Education Spending. Is that conservative?

JFK was the president who originally proposed most of what became The Great Society, including Medicare? Is that conservative?

I notice you very conventiently forgot to mention that JFK was pro life and pro tax cuts........Can you name one liberal today who is pro on those 2 issues?

I rest my case...............
 
Navy Pride said:
I notice you very conventiently forgot to mention that JFK was pro life and pro tax cuts........Can you name one liberal today who is pro on those 2 issues?

I rest my case...............
In case you did not notice, in an earlier post, I pointed out that Howard Dean pushed through 2 tax cuts while Governor of Vermont. Is Howard Dean a conservative?

What is the point about JFK being pro-life, abortion was illegal at the time. If I am not mistaken, LBJ was not pro-choice. Was LBJ a conservative?

Few liberals are liberal on every single issue or for that matter, few conservatives are conservative on everything. Your argument is like saying that Bush pushed through No Child Left Behind, so Bush is every bit as liberal as Teddy Kennedy. Of course, that would be total bullsh** just like your argument is. Why can't you just admit that you were wrong. Just say, hey you know on most issues, JFK was pretty liberal by any standard. Acknowledging that would not mean that liberalism is good or conservatism is bad, it would simply be the acknowledgment that JFK was by any definition largely a liberal.
 
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I was an alternate on the 80 Olympic team-I voted for Jimmy Carter not only because he was completely lost in foreign policy and domestic economic issues, he threatened the Olympians with all sorts of illegal and fascist reprisals if they wanted to compete under the IOC flag in Moscow

In terms of long term harm to the Nation, FDR was the worst because his intimidation of the federal courts led to the tortured interpretation of the commerce clause that has been used to justify everything from unconstitutional gun ban schemes, the moronic war on drugs and the federal intrustion into state issues like medical marijuana
 
TurtleDude said:
I was an alternate on the 80 Olympic team-I voted for Jimmy Carter not only because he was completely lost in foreign policy and domestic economic issues, he threatened the Olympians with all sorts of illegal and fascist reprisals if they wanted to compete under the IOC flag in Moscow

In terms of long term harm to the Nation, FDR was the worst because his intimidation of the federal courts led to the tortured interpretation of the commerce clause that has been used to justify everything from unconstitutional gun ban schemes, the moronic war on drugs and the federal intrustion into state issues like medical marijuana


I was actually around and voted in 1960 for JFK.......Like someone said already the definition of a Liberal what you represent today is completely different in 1960......Knowing how Conservative I am do you really think I would vote for a Liberal as defined by todays standards?

Like I said if JFK could see what has happened to the democratic party.....The party of Sam Nunn, Scoop Jackson and Zell Miller he would turn over in his grave and if you were honest with yourself you would admit that...
 
Navy Pride said:
I was actually around and voted in 1960 for JFK.......Like someone said already the definition of a Liberal what you represent today is completely different in 1960......Knowing how Conservative I am do you really think I would vote for a Liberal as defined by todays standards?

Like I said if JFK could see what has happened to the democratic party.....The party of Sam Nunn, Scoop Jackson and Zell Miller he would turn over in his grave and if you were honest with yourself you would admit that...


JFK loved his country, was an NRA member, cut taxes and not only supported the military, he was the driving force behind the Special Forces.

the Current GOP is much like Kennedy-tax and spend patriots while the Dems have become reactionary statist parasites-without the soviets to worship as the far left did a generation ago, they turn their energy from loving soviet communism to hating America
 
Kandahar said:
- Herbert Hoover (Fiddled while Rome burned)
- Franklin D. Roosevelt (Worst ideology of any president, set terrible precedents that still infect our government today)
- Lyndon B. Johnson (The Great Society AND The Vietnam War)
- Richard Nixon (The closest thing to a dictator we've ever had)

I like your list.

I actually voted LBJ in this pool, but I think that FDR might be worse. The problem with calling out FDR is that a) he's worshipped by modern day democrats and b) he led us to victory in World War II, so of course any criticism of FDR is going to be resisted.

In the quote above, Nixon is listed as "the closest thing to a dictator we've ever had." I'm not a Nixon fan, but I actually think that title should go to FDR. A dictator is someone with absolute power, and they would have complete control over all branches of government. The legislature was able to turn against Nixon, and he didn't have a very meaningful effect on the courts.

FDR, however, was given a blank check by the legislature for all of his programs, many of which were used to cement his power and control congress. Some of his programs (such as social security) seem to be designed, quite frankly, to be impossible to change - so we're stuck with the current system for a long time.

In addition, look at FDR's record with the Judicial branch. Does anyone remember his "court-packing" scheme? That's not something Nixon or Bush would do - that's FDR's attempt to control the Judicial branch as well as the executive and legislative. And then of course there was the internment of the Japanese. I know he's not exaclty a dictator - but the closest we've had in our history.

I think that Hoover doesn't really belong on your list. He tried to respond to the great depression by supporting some proto-New Deal type measures. Some of these measures actaully made the situation worse, just as FDR's did, but we're talking about hindsight here. The FDR campaign definately smeared Hoover as something that he wasn't and I think Hoover's only problem was being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
 
TurtleDude said:
the Current GOP is much like Kennedy-tax and spend patriots while the Dems have become reactionary statist parasites-without the soviets to worship as the far left did a generation ago, they turn their energy from loving soviet communism to hating America
Welcome to Debate Politics! :wcm

Would you please provide a link to a creditable source that proves that Democrats hate America? I consider that type of thinking to be "Stinkin' Thinkin"

All you have to do to understand what kind of Democrat JFK would be today is look at his brother, Ted. Do you think that he would be any different? Do W & Jeb differ?

For example, do you think JFK would have supported Nixon in 1972 or McGovern, the most liberal Democratic candidate of the 20th century? Do you remember who McGovern's running mate was that year? It was Sargent Shriver, JFK's brother in law and Maria Shriver's father.

Did you read my post in this thread from earlier today? It's a speech JFK gave when he accepted the Liberal Party of NY's nomination for President in 1960. I think it clearly defines who is, who he would be if he were still alive today.

Here's the link:

http://www.debatepolitics.com/showpost.php?p=113399&postcount=39
 
Navy Pride said:
If JFK were alive today he would be a democrat along the lines of the great Zell Miller..........

Kennedy was civilized, not not a crazy old coot. How dare you disrespect him like that!:rofl
 
TurtleDude said:
JFK loved his country, was an NRA member, cut taxes and not only supported the military, he was the driving force behind the Special Forces.

the Current GOP is much like Kennedy-tax and spend patriots while the Dems have become reactionary statist parasites-without the soviets to worship as the far left did a generation ago, they turn their energy from loving soviet communism to hating America

I am so sick of having to repeat myself on here just to counter all the far right myths and revisionist history.

When JFK left office, the top tax rate was 70%, would a conservative leave the top tax rate at 70%?

The NRA was a gun safety club back then. Howard Dean had a 100% rating from the NRA and cut taxes twice while Governor of Vermont. Is he a conservative as well?

LBJ was stronger on Defense and Defense spending than JFK, was he a conservative?

Medicare was JFK's idea, so was most of the Great Society Programs. Is The Great Society a big conservative agenda?

JFK was a liberal by any standard. Any non-partisan political scientist will tell you that in the last 30 years, the Democratic Party has largely moved closer to the center and the Republican Party has moved largely to the right. Back in the 60s, Barry Goldwater represented the far right of the Republican Party. Today, he would be a liberal Republican. Arlen Spector was a very conservative Republican then, todayhe is a moderate Republican.

If JFK was still alive today, he would be well to the left of Bill Clinton, and one of the more liberal members of the Democratic Party.
 
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