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Worst Idealogy

Worst Idealogy?

  • Nazis

    Votes: 24 49.0%
  • Fascists

    Votes: 5 10.2%
  • Conservatives

    Votes: 3 6.1%
  • Moderates

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Liberals

    Votes: 4 8.2%
  • Socialists

    Votes: 2 4.1%
  • Communists

    Votes: 6 12.2%
  • Others

    Votes: 5 10.2%

  • Total voters
    49

Comrade Brian

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Which is it, in your opinion?

I vote Nazism.
 
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A

Androvski

Comrade Brian said:
Which is it, in your opinion?

I vote Nazism.
Needless to say who I voted for.
I'm sure a lot of our American friends will vote for Communism or Socialism,but I'll bet you when they do they will be thinking of state capitalist USSR or China or some other state that has claimed Socialism as their ideology,but has been far removed from it.
 
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freethought6t9

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The Nazis were fascists, fascists who hate Jews. I voted fascist as it is far more encompassing. And Trajan will you stop banging on about Islamic extremism being borne of nazi-ism, it has it roots in the 8th century for Christs sake, and all three Abrahamic faiths have at some point sought the destruction of all other religions and the creation of a holy nation, Israel and Cristendom spring to mind pretty damn quickly. And don't post the link with the Islamic-Nazi alliances, I get it, but that doesn't mean it was simply created at this time. It has been going on for centuries, in Islam, Juadaism to a lesser extent and of course the most murderous religion the world has ever known, Christianity.
 
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freethought6t9 said:
The Nazis were fascists, fascists who hate Jews. I voted fascist as it is far more encompassing. And Trajan will you stop banging on about Islamic extremism being borne of nazi-ism, it has it roots in the 8th century for Christs sake, and all three Abrahamic faiths have at some point sought the destruction of all other religions and the creation of a holy nation, Israel and Cristendom spring to mind pretty damn quickly. And don't post the link with the Islamic-Nazi alliances, I get it, but that doesn't mean it was simply created at this time. It has been going on for centuries, in Islam, Juadaism to a lesser extent and of course the most murderous religion the world has ever known, Christianity.
Wrong again I said modern Islamic extremism which has a direct lineage to nazi Germany with the mufti al husseini. Got any more brain busters?
 

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I said other mainly the religious fundies out there. They pose the greatest threat to the human race. The other ones are easier to change then religious beliefs even more so if they are really devoted to every little thing.
 

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Voted Nazism.
 

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Facism, which includes both Mussolini's corporation/government love party and Hitlers insane Nazis, also Franco's Spain...yes, just all governments that were and are considered facist.

Also STS Burns, I love your signature. Futurama is by far one of the best comedy/drama shows on TV, shame it was canceled.
 

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Trajan Octavian Titus said:
Wrong again I said modern Islamic extremism which has a direct lineage to nazi Germany with the mufti al husseini. Got any more brain busters?
No you didn't, you said pan islamic. And my point still stands, the Islamic extremists may have had links to Nazi Germany but there were also links with Nationalist movements throughout the middle east, including Nasser, the former President of Egypt. Parts of the British Aristocracy had links to the Nazis, even had small Nazi movements, does that mean the British Aristocracy had it's roots in Nazi Germany? Of course not, it had been around for centuries, just like the form of Islamic extremism practised today. Ever hear of the old Islamic Assassins cult the Hashshashin?
 

freethought6t9

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V.I. Lenin said:
Facism, which includes both Mussolini's corporation/government love party and Hitlers insane Nazis, also Franco's Spain...yes, just all governments that were and are considered facist.

Also STS Burns, I love your signature. Futurama is by far one of the best comedy/drama shows on TV, shame it was canceled.
Did you notice when Futurama was on, the Simpsons was getting worse? I for one was quite happy to sacrifice the Simpsons for Futurama, but lately the Simpsons has been getting better, either way I'm pretty happy.
 
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freethought6t9 said:
No you didn't, you said pan islamic. And my point still stands, the Islamic extremists may have had links to Nazi Germany but there were also links with Nationalist movements throughout the middle east, including Nasser, the former President of Egypt. Parts of the British Aristocracy had links to the Nazis, even had small Nazi movements, does that mean the British Aristocracy had it's roots in Nazi Germany? Of course not, it had been around for centuries, just like the form of Islamic extremism practised today. Ever hear of the old Islamic Assassins cult the Hashshashin?
Nope wrong again the modern Islamic radical is in a direct response to the Jewish question. What do you think their solution is? Clever use of turnspeak though to bad I don't fall for propaganda.
 
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galenrox said:
I really hope that the three people who voted "liberalism" and the two who voted "conservatism" realize that they just said Ted Kennedy and Bill Frist are worse than Hitler, Mousallini, and Stalin.
Damn righ! Liberalism and Conservatism are both still better then any of the other choices.
 

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Trajan Octavian Titus said:
Nope wrong again the modern Islamic radical is in a direct response to the Jewish question. What do you think their solution is?
The main cause of contention between Jews and Muslims is Israel. Before the creation of Israel there were few Jews in the region and although relations were not exactly friendly, it was nothing like the situation now. And I wasn't wrong, you didn't say modern you said Pan-Islamic. You're the one 'sliding' the issue. I just can't see how you think the Nazi's are to blame for the rise of Islamic Extremism. Like I said, a lot of people agreed with the Nazis, and an animosity towards Jews was usually the reason, although suppression of the working class appealed to a lot of people. Still does in the corporate fascist oligarchy that runs the world today.

I refuse to get into a debate with you where I am actually defending any form of religious extremism. All religious extremists are nuts, with the exception of radical Buddhists who are incredibly pious, hard working, soft-natured and could kick your ass in a second, but they don't because that would be wrong. Of course it would also be wrong to play on the stereotype that all Buddhist Monks know kung fu. But thats a discussion for another day.

While I will of course agree that Islamic extremism is dangerous, and when it leads to terrorist atrocities and human rights abuses it can be fatal. The sad fact is that more people are enslaved, brutalised and oppressed by fascism even today. The huge oligopolous corporations which have a near limitless control over peoples lives, especially in the third world and reach out on a global scale unlike any of the mighty empires of the past are truly fascist institutions. With the help of Western governments and their militaries and themselves producing the Weapons of Mass Destruction we all live in so much fear of, they export their influence all over the world and usually the effects are detrimental. Yet what form of public oversight do we have over these Pillars of Western power, these 'captains' of industry. The U.S. government, by far the most influential over, or should that be influenced by these billion dollar corporations seeks 'de-regulation' endlessly. A lie in itself, as the rules aren't being removed, but rewritten in favour of these behemoths of capitalism. And so the role of government in regulating industry and trade has been underwritten and they seek their 'free' markets endlessly.

'Free' trade is another good lie, the W.T.O., the global champion of free trade, one of the most protectionist institutions in the world, the E.U. as well as a matter of fact. China is the best example of this these days. The clamour over Chinese attempts to buy Unocal recently, where was talk of free-trade then? You don't ask me to believe that human-rights abuses were a problem do you? When Saudi Arabia, Indonesia, Guatemala and many other countries guilty of heinous crimes against their own populations are such valuable trading partners. Saudi Arabia more so than any other perhaps, and that being one of the countries home to the 'Pan-Islamic Fascism' Trajan is so worried by. That and Germany, obviously. And speaking of Germany, Europe in general, recently millions of pounds worth of Chinese textiles were recently impounded as Chinese imports exceeded quotas. Doesn't sound so free to me. But hey, I'm no economist.

So while I can't disagree that Islamic fundamentalism, or extremism or Islamo-Fascism or whatever you want to call it, is a clear and present daner in the 21st century, I think the danger rests more in the middle east and attacks in the West, although more frequent than perhaps any time in history (thats attacks originating from outside the West) they are still far less frequent than deaths in the middle east, and still far far less frequent than crimes committed by 'client' states under the auspices of the 'War on Terror'. And excluding violent death, the corporate oligopoly has a much more devestating impact on not only people but entire cultures, societies and nations. The genetic material of remote South East Asian island tribes has been copyrighted by an American bio-engineering outfit! This is not freedom, it is slavery and if any of you are familiar with George Orwell, the reference and hopefully it's significance will not be lost on you.

LONG LIVE EMMANUEL GOLDSTEIN!!!
 
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Trajan Octavian Titus said:
Damn righ! Liberalism and Conservatism are both still better then any of the other choices.
Phew, I was scared you might have voted liberalism;)

Moderate might be the best, but I hate fence sitting. Liberal and Conservative are definitely the best. Also probably the only two capable of civil debate...
 
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freethought6t9 said:
The main cause of contention between Jews and Muslims is Israel. Before the creation of Israel there were few Jews in the region and although relations were not exactly friendly, it was nothing like the situation now. And I wasn't wrong, you didn't say modern you said Pan-Islamic. You're the one 'sliding' the issue. I just can't see how you think the Nazi's are to blame for the rise of Islamic Extremism. Like I said, a lot of people agreed with the Nazis, and an animosity towards Jews was usually the reason, although suppression of the working class appealed to a lot of people. Still does in the corporate fascist oligarchy that runs the world today.

I refuse to get into a debate with you where I am actually defending any form of religious extremism. All religious extremists are nuts, with the exception of radical Buddhists who are incredibly pious, hard working, soft-natured and could kick your ass in a second, but they don't because that would be wrong. Of course it would also be wrong to play on the stereotype that all Buddhist Monks know kung fu. But thats a discussion for another day.

While I will of course agree that Islamic extremism is dangerous, and when it leads to terrorist atrocities and human rights abuses it can be fatal. The sad fact is that more people are enslaved, brutalised and oppressed by fascism even today. The huge oligopolous corporations which have a near limitless control over peoples lives, especially in the third world and reach out on a global scale unlike any of the mighty empires of the past are truly fascist institutions. With the help of Western governments and their militaries and themselves producing the Weapons of Mass Destruction we all live in so much fear of, they export their influence all over the world and usually the effects are detrimental. Yet what form of public oversight do we have over these Pillars of Western power, these 'captains' of industry. The U.S. government, by far the most influential over, or should that be influenced by these billion dollar corporations seeks 'de-regulation' endlessly. A lie in itself, as the rules aren't being removed, but rewritten in favour of these behemoths of capitalism. And so the role of government in regulating industry and trade has been underwritten and they seek their 'free' markets endlessly.

'Free' trade is another good lie, the W.T.O., the global champion of free trade, one of the most protectionist institutions in the world, the E.U. as well as a matter of fact. China is the best example of this these days. The clamour over Chinese attempts to buy Unocal recently, where was talk of free-trade then? You don't ask me to believe that human-rights abuses were a problem do you? When Saudi Arabia, Indonesia, Guatemala and many other countries guilty of heinous crimes against their own populations are such valuable trading partners. Saudi Arabia more so than any other perhaps, and that being one of the countries home to the 'Pan-Islamic Fascism' Trajan is so worried by. That and Germany, obviously. And speaking of Germany, Europe in general, recently millions of pounds worth of Chinese textiles were recently impounded as Chinese imports exceeded quotas. Doesn't sound so free to me. But hey, I'm no economist.

So while I can't disagree that Islamic fundamentalism, or extremism or Islamo-Fascism or whatever you want to call it, is a clear and present daner in the 21st century, I think the danger rests more in the middle east and attacks in the West, although more frequent than perhaps any time in history (thats attacks originating from outside the West) they are still far less frequent than deaths in the middle east, and still far far less frequent than crimes committed by 'client' states under the auspices of the 'War on Terror'. And excluding violent death, the corporate oligopoly has a much more devestating impact on not only people but entire cultures, societies and nations. The genetic material of remote South East Asian island tribes has been copyrighted by an American bio-engineering outfit! This is not freedom, it is slavery and if any of you are familiar with George Orwell, the reference and hopefully it's significance will not be lost on you.

LONG LIVE EMMANUEL GOLDSTEIN!!!
Which can all be linked to 1920's and 30's Europe and more specifically nazi Germany!

Long Live Locke!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

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Trajan Octavian Titus said:
Which can all be linked to 1920's and 30's Europe and more specifically nazi Germany!

Long Live Locke!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
All of it? Fascism was not the invention of Hitler, whatever you may believe. It finds its origins in 19th Century Italy and Mussolinis fascist government as in power a decade before Hitler. Besides that, fascism is in reality just a modified theocracy, with capital and corporations replacing the traditional aristocratic land owners of the past. Political rule is tighter perhaps, but don't think that anti-royalists wouldn't have had their heads chopped off at the height of European Monarchy, and of course religious fundamentalism has long practised the art of suppressing 'unsavoury' ideas and ideologies, in Islam, Christianity, Judaism and other religions of the world for hundreds and thousands of years. So, yeah, you can link Nazi Germany to these ideals, big deal. It is not the cause or source of these close-minded ideologies, they have existed for all of human history, and Islamic tenets of dominance and heresy have existed for over a millenium, a long time to be sure, but Christianity just recently marked its bi-millenial birthday (if that is a word) and no-one really knows how old Hebrew faiths really are, but I think it is 5,000 years and both of these religions have fought wars over articles of faith. The Jews were just never really very good at it. Until the Christians started arming them, in the vain hope of their own apocalyptic myths coming true. And the Muslims just want to be allowed to practise their faith, although some have a more 'extreme' fatih than others. I don't mean to trivialise but the whole thing is nonsense in my opinion, religion that is, or at least religious war.
 
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freethought6t9 said:
All of it? Fascism was not the invention of Hitler, whatever you may believe. It finds its origins in 19th Century Italy and Mussolinis fascist government as in power a decade before Hitler. Besides that, fascism is in reality just a modified theocracy, with capital and corporations replacing the traditional aristocratic land owners of the past. Political rule is tighter perhaps, but don't think that anti-royalists wouldn't have had their heads chopped off at the height of European Monarchy, and of course religious fundamentalism has long practised the art of suppressing 'unsavoury' ideas and ideologies, in Islam, Christianity, Judaism and other religions of the world for hundreds and thousands of years. So, yeah, you can link Nazi Germany to these ideals, big deal. It is not the cause or source of these close-minded ideologies, they have existed for all of human history, and Islamic tenets of dominance and heresy have existed for over a millenium, a long time to be sure, but Christianity just recently marked its bi-millenial birthday (if that is a word) and no-one really knows how old Hebrew faiths really are, but I think it is 5,000 years and both of these religions have fought wars over articles of faith. The Jews were just never really very good at it. Until the Christians started arming them, in the vain hope of their own apocalyptic myths coming true. And the Muslims just want to be allowed to practise their faith, although some have a more 'extreme' fatih than others. I don't mean to trivialise but the whole thing is nonsense in my opinion, religion that is, or at least religious war.
Never mentioned fascism I said nazism which shares a direct lineage with radical Islam.
 
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freethought6t9 said:
Phew, I was scared you might have voted liberalism;)

Moderate might be the best, but I hate fence sitting. Liberal and Conservative are definitely the best. Also probably the only two capable of civil debate...
Not me man, technically on the international scale I'm a liberal. Here's some school for thought: so's Bush.
 

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Trajan Octavian Titus said:
Never mentioned fascism I said nazism which shares a direct lineage with radical Islam.
You're really getting off-topic here, you responded to my post, saying everything I had wrote was linked to nazi germany. I was talking about fascism. Maybe you'd better lie down.
 

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Trajan Octavian Titus said:
Not me man, technically on the international scale I'm a liberal. Here's some school for thought: so's Bush.
I really don't think so. He likes low tax, cuts spending on everything except the military, is very religious, wants to ban abortion and gay marriage and likes attacking other countries for their resources. That's not liberal.
 
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freethought6t9 said:
You're really getting off-topic here, you responded to my post, saying everything I had wrote was linked to nazi germany. I was talking about fascism. Maybe you'd better lie down.
Ya true, but you quoted me, and you misrepresented my position and I felt it my obligation to respond.
 

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Trajan Octavian Titus said:
Ya true, but you quoted me, and you misrepresented my position and I felt it my obligation to respond.
Then what was your position in response to my post. This one;

freethought6t9 said:
The main cause of contention between Jews and Muslims is Israel. Before the creation of Israel there were few Jews in the region and although relations were not exactly friendly, it was nothing like the situation now. And I wasn't wrong, you didn't say modern you said Pan-Islamic. You're the one 'sliding' the issue. I just can't see how you think the Nazi's are to blame for the rise of Islamic Extremism. Like I said, a lot of people agreed with the Nazis, and an animosity towards Jews was usually the reason, although suppression of the working class appealed to a lot of people. Still does in the corporate fascist oligarchy that runs the world today.

I refuse to get into a debate with you where I am actually defending any form of religious extremism. All religious extremists are nuts, with the exception of radical Buddhists who are incredibly pious, hard working, soft-natured and could kick your ass in a second, but they don't because that would be wrong. Of course it would also be wrong to play on the stereotype that all Buddhist Monks know kung fu. But thats a discussion for another day.

While I will of course agree that Islamic extremism is dangerous, and when it leads to terrorist atrocities and human rights abuses it can be fatal. The sad fact is that more people are enslaved, brutalised and oppressed by fascism even today. The huge oligopolous corporations which have a near limitless control over peoples lives, especially in the third world and reach out on a global scale unlike any of the mighty empires of the past are truly fascist institutions. With the help of Western governments and their militaries and themselves producing the Weapons of Mass Destruction we all live in so much fear of, they export their influence all over the world and usually the effects are detrimental. Yet what form of public oversight do we have over these Pillars of Western power, these 'captains' of industry. The U.S. government, by far the most influential over, or should that be influenced by these billion dollar corporations seeks 'de-regulation' endlessly. A lie in itself, as the rules aren't being removed, but rewritten in favour of these behemoths of capitalism. And so the role of government in regulating industry and trade has been underwritten and they seek their 'free' markets endlessly.

'Free' trade is another good lie, the W.T.O., the global champion of free trade, one of the most protectionist institutions in the world, the E.U. as well as a matter of fact. China is the best example of this these days. The clamour over Chinese attempts to buy Unocal recently, where was talk of free-trade then? You don't ask me to believe that human-rights abuses were a problem do you? When Saudi Arabia, Indonesia, Guatemala and many other countries guilty of heinous crimes against their own populations are such valuable trading partners. Saudi Arabia more so than any other perhaps, and that being one of the countries home to the 'Pan-Islamic Fascism' Trajan is so worried by. That and Germany, obviously. And speaking of Germany, Europe in general, recently millions of pounds worth of Chinese textiles were recently impounded as Chinese imports exceeded quotas. Doesn't sound so free to me. But hey, I'm no economist.

So while I can't disagree that Islamic fundamentalism, or extremism or Islamo-Fascism or whatever you want to call it, is a clear and present daner in the 21st century, I think the danger rests more in the middle east and attacks in the West, although more frequent than perhaps any time in history (thats attacks originating from outside the West) they are still far less frequent than deaths in the middle east, and still far far less frequent than crimes committed by 'client' states under the auspices of the 'War on Terror'. And excluding violent death, the corporate oligopoly has a much more devestating impact on not only people but entire cultures, societies and nations. The genetic material of remote South East Asian island tribes has been copyrighted by an American bio-engineering outfit! This is not freedom, it is slavery and if any of you are familiar with George Orwell, the reference and hopefully it's significance will not be lost on you.

LONG LIVE EMMANUEL GOLDSTEIN!!!
 

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Trajan Octavian Titus said:
a total laack of credibility and a call to higher anarchy!
How do I have a lack of credibility, and if I do, then why don't you? I just have an opinion not permitted in the safe 'spectrum' of American political debate, and I am actually calling for democracy at the highest levels, not anarchy. Nothing I have said can be called anarchistic, unless it was anarchistic to want to remove Hitler or Mussolini from power and replace them with tolerant, democratic and fair institutions.

The more I get into this, the more I become convinced you don't want to debate, rather you only wish to spout your narrow-minded views and remain intolerant of entire cultures which you have no understanding of. Try actually responding, not just meaninglessly insulting those with differing opinions. I know people think it hypocritical to be intolerant toward intolerance, and maybe they're right, nut my point remains. Start looking at things from outside the 'box' of American popular opinion and from the point of view of others.
 
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freethought6t9 said:
How do I have a lack of credibility, and if I do, then why don't you? I just have an opinion not permitted in the safe 'spectrum' of American political debate, and I am actually calling for democracy at the highest levels, not anarchy. Nothing I have said can be called anarchistic, unless it was anarchistic to want to remove Hitler or Mussolini from power and replace them with tolerant, democratic and fair institutions.

The more I get into this, the more I become convinced you don't want to debate, rather you only wish to spout your narrow-minded views and remain intolerant of entire cultures which you have no understanding of. Try actually responding, not just meaninglessly insulting those with differing opinions. I know people think it hypocritical to be intolerant toward intolerance, and maybe they're right, nut my point remains. Start looking at things from outside the 'box' of American popular opinion and from the point of view of others.
nope wrong again, that's my possision.
 
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