World Bank: Venezuela decreases poverty

[bayano]

“Venezuela has achieved substantial improvements in the fight against poverty. The statistical evidence that we have compiled shows that from 1995 to 2005 the number of homes under the poverty line has decreased,” stated the World Bank.

Read the rest

 

[LeftyHenry]

No suprise here, Capitalism will always have rampant poverty. Socialism on the otherhand... well let's just say venezula is a good example.

 

[Red_Dave]

Read the rest

heh its not like the world bank to admit such things:mrgreen:

 

[Spartacus FPV]

No suprise here, Capitalism will always have rampant poverty. Socialism on the otherhand... well let's just say venezula is a good example.

You obviously missed this part:

"The organization said that in these years the number of homes in poverty decreased from more than 40% to 30%"

Compared to our 4.8% unemployment, which looks "always rampant?" I swear lefty, you crack me up.

 

[ashurbanipal]

Plenty of employed people are poor.

 

[Vader]

No suprise here, Capitalism will always have rampant poverty. Socialism on the otherhand... well let's just say venezula is a good example.

Chavez and his cabinet need to face the same justice as Benito Moussilini and his mistress suffered back in 1943.

:mrgreen:

 

[LeftyHenry]

You obviously missed this part:

"The organization said that in these years the number of homes in poverty decreased from more than 40% to 30%"

Compared to our 4.8% unemployment, which looks "always rampant?" I swear lefty, you crack me up.

LOL Lachean, way to use the richest first world country in the world against
a small latin american country. How about we use a prime exqmple of capitalism which is in the region, like for example, columbia or nicaragua. In anycase, you don`t need to be unemployed to be in poverty. I thought we went over this in that Wal-Mart thread a while back.

 

[Spartacus FPV]

You said "ALWAYS" so how would using any example not be relevant?

And what is considered poverty is very different among different countries. Dont waste your time reminding me of threads that "we covered" when I know for a fact you took nothing from them nor did you contribute anything I didnt know.

 

[LeftyHenry]

You said "ALWAYS" so how would using any example not be relevant?

well there are about 35,000,000 people in poverty in America, and about 20,000,000 are children. I consider that rampant especially since we have the resources and wealth and if we were more efficient we could greatly decrease that number.

And what is considered poverty is very different among different countries. Dont waste your time reminding me of threads that "we covered" when I know for a fact you took nothing from them nor did you contribute anything I didnt know.

Poverty is always poverty. In any country your in, if you`re in poverty, you`re living like ****. Have your ever lived in poverty or made 20,000 or less in a year of work? No? Well you should try it. It`s really great and fun in the US. You were the one who didn`t take anything, because in every thread no matter how many times I repeated myself you used the same rotation of generic arguments, except you changed your wording.

 

[bobkindles]

It is undeniable that the United States, in terms of Gross domestic product per capita, and even in terms of its Human development index, is one of the most prosperous countries in the world. However, this does not prove the success of Capitalism any more than pointing to the riches of a Capitalist (ie. someone who exerts ownership and control over the means of production) does. What one has to consider if how this wealth came to be accumulated to consider the benefits of Capitalism.

The reason being that the United States has accumulated its wealth through tangible (the direct domination of other countries militarily and the development of a military-industrial complex - also known as a permanant arms economy) and non-tangible (the export of Capital so as to utilise overseas labour and raw materials to produce commodities for export) Imperialism, thus forming Capitalist relations of production on a global scale and allowing even the most depraved worker in the United States to become a net exploiter. The ability of US corporations to derive ownership of commodities made by under-payed and under-valued foreign workers is essentially the Marxist concept of Surplus value on an international level. The brave step of Venezuela and Bolivia - the Nationalisation of their oil indsutries - will allow the ordinary people to derive the benefits of the raw materials in their own country - not American CEOs.

 

[LeftyHenry]

Hello Bobkindles, Did you post on the revleft forums a while back?

 

[BodiSatva]

How can anybody take a moron like you seriously Lefty?

Capitalism works...deal with it you Red Bastard.

I will forever laugh in the face of anybody that thinks that Capitalism does not work...
That it does not insist on...ahhh what the hell do you care anyway, you Pinko...

 

[Volker]

Wrong floor, to the basement please stay in the elevator.

 

[LeftyHenry]

How can anybody take a moron like you seriously Lefty?

Capitalism works...deal with it you Red Bastard.

I will forever laugh in the face of anybody that thinks that Capitalism does not work...
That it does not insist on...ahhh what the hell do you care anyway, you Pinko...

have you ever been impoverished? No? STFU than. How can anyone take you seriously when you constantly flame and offer nothing of substance to this forum

 

[Flea]

How can you ask a question of a person and then answer it for them? But Volker is right, wrong level. Drinking? Act like a jerk there only man.

LeftyHenry, I have read a lot of your posts and you offer more opinions and less substance than he. Just something for you to think about.

Back on topic:

Great. They decreased poverty, even by a lot. 10% or so. Isn't it still around 30%? When Chavez starts worrying about his people and forgets becoming buddy/buddy with terrorist madmen like Irans Pres. then we might see something worth getting excited about.

 

[Red_Dave]

I think the cooperation between chavez and iran is blown out of proportion. The west has allied itself with the likes of Saddam Husein and Joe Starlin so we can hardly claim the moral highground when it comes to chosseing allys. Surely we should be applying the same standards to ourselves as we apply to Chavez.

 

[Flea]

We are the USA. We can do whatever we want. Duh!

 

[LeftyHenry]

How can you ask a question of a person and then answer it for them? But Volker is right, wrong level. Drinking? Act like a jerk there only man.

LeftyHenry, I have read a lot of your posts and you offer more opinions and less substance than he. Just something for you to think about.

Back on topic:

Great. They decreased poverty, even by a lot. 10% or so. Isn't it still around 30%? When Chavez starts worrying about his people and forgets becoming buddy/buddy with terrorist madmen like Irans Pres. then we might see something worth getting excited about.

Every thread he's participated in and I've participated in he flames like that. It's ****ing annoying. And it was a rhetorical question because someone who says some **** like that completely ignores all the poverty, starvation, and crime which capitalism encourages and embraces. So I know he hasn't. If he did he'd know the system isn't perfect like he seems to think. Even if he 'worked hard and got rich' there are millions upon millions who work hard but don't get lucky like that and seeing that you can't say capitalism works perfectly.

BTW, I've never heard of you so how have you 'read alot of my posts'?

 

[Flea]

I have been posting here for a couple of weeks and I read a lot. I read things in RL and here, I like to assess those that I am gonna talk to before just jumping in. I read your stuff as well as others. You post, as do others, all over the place. It isn't that hard or that big of a deal. I have read Bodi and ptskid and teacher and many others. Just what I do. I dont always comment.

Of course capitalism is not perfect. ****, it can be a total mess if left to run amuck. I would not say that Capitalism "encourages and embraces" poverty, starvation, and crime. That is a little unrealistic, don't you think. I am not a flaming red commie like you and red dave, but I feel you man. I grew up where it was tough and am working my way up. Gotta study and work for it. I think that socialism will never work as it is meant to unfortunately. It sucks that people are greedy. Capitalism isn't fair, nothing is. Capitalism, from what all of my socialist friends have said, that lived in Sweden and Canada and such, say that this USA rules over those places for a variety of reasons. I can only say what they say. I am sure that we will talk more Lefty. Don't let BodiSatva ruffle you, he is just abrasive. It just seems like his way. But he could also be just as asshole.

Some of these other fools though, OMG. I am gonna jump in the soup a bit more and hear some of you guys talk about pure socialism and its successes, I think that that is not played enough, the successes. Take it easy.

 

[BodiSatva]

Originally Posted by LeftyHenry
have you ever been impoverished? No? STFU than. How can anyone take you seriously when you constantly flame and offer nothing of substance to this forum

Before I even consider answering that question, you need to provide information regarding YOUR background so that WE ALL don't consider you a fraud for asking such a question with no personal experience. If you have not, then you should SHUT THE **** UP BITCH!

Originally Posted by JohnnyUtah
How can you ask a question of a person and then answer it for them?

Great Point

Originally Posted by JohnnyUtah
But Volker is right, wrong level.

True

Originally Posted by JohnnyUtah
Drinking?

Actually...Yes

Originally Posted by LeftyHenry
And it was a rhetorical question

No ****? :lol:

Originally Posted by LeftyHenry
someone who says some **** like that completely ignores all the poverty, starvation, and crime which capitalism encourages and embraces. So I know he hasn't. If he did he'd know the system isn't perfect like he seems to think. Even if he 'worked hard and got rich' there are millions upon millions who work hard but don't get lucky like that and seeing that you can't say capitalism works perfectly.

You are talking out of you butthole child. You know nothing. I ignore nothing. I am a realist. Capitalism perfect? Quit ASSUMING boy. It is far from perfect. This whole statement, as usual, reeks of naivity and Impressionist values.

 

[LeftyHenry]

Before I even consider answering that question, you need to provide information regarding YOUR background so that WE ALL don't consider you a fraud for asking such a question with no personal experience. If you have not, then you should SHUT THE **** UP BITCH!

Irrelevent because I acknowledge that capitalism is ****ed up. I recognize that people in this country can't afford to feed themselves regularly. You claim that capitalism works and that anyone who thinks otherwise is dillusional.

Great Point No ****? :lol:

rhetorical question. Doesn't even matter now. What dumass thinks that capitalism is perfect?

You are talking out of you butthole child.

You're the one who can't even have a civil debate with someone who has different views than you. You whine and kick and scream and yell and flame like a toddler. And you call me a child :lol:. You always seem ready to pick a fight with me and usually I just ignore you because I don't feel like wasting my time with immature little children.

You know nothing. I ignore nothing. I am a realist. Capitalism perfect? Quit ASSUMING boy.

I'm not assuming. You're wrong as usual. You say it works and insult anyway who says it doesn't. You basically say it's foolish to insult it because it's a given that it's perfect. You ignore all the poverty and oppression it creates.

It is far from perfect. This whole statement, as usual, reeks of naivity and Impressionist values.

You're either ****ing stupid or just condradicting yourself or both...

 

[Vader]

I think the cooperation between chavez and iran is blown out of proportion. The west has allied itself with the likes of Saddam Husein and Joe Starlin so we can hardly claim the moral highground when it comes to chosseing allys. Surely we should be applying the same standards to ourselves as we apply to Chavez.

The Stalin reference is sad ... we also worked with the rest of the allies from WWII to FIGHT Stalin during the cold war.

As to Chavez seeking an alliance with Iran, screw that. If Chavez becomes a threat, he can be easily neutralized.

 

[BodiSatva]

Originally Posted by LeftyHenry
You're the one who can't even have a civil debate with someone who has different views than you. You whine and kick and scream and yell and flame like a toddler. And you call me a child . You always seem ready to pick a fight with me and usually I just ignore you because I don't feel like wasting my time with immature little children.

Civil debate? That is not my intention. It WAS my intention when I first met you, but no longer. There was not point, so I decided to use you for my sadistic pleasure. Sorry that I used you and didn’t care and that you did not get it and that this bothered you…oh well.

You ignore me? Don’t make me laugh. There are so many things that you don’t get it is ridiculous.

This is most likely a mistake, but I will treat you like an adult again, for a bit. Honestly. That last paragraph was the last time that I will be condescending and we will see how this transgresses. None of the following is an insult, it is an explanation. Please be clear of that point. I am turning over a new leaf with you and I will communicate with you accordingly.

You seem genuinely bewildered as to how and why I talk to you the way that I do. It is a conscious choice that I initiated after dealing with you before. Most of your comments seem to be nothing but unbridled and biased assumption. Sorry. You barely seem to have the ability to communicate. Maybe it is my bad. I look at issues from multiple views and dissect thoughts and get to the meat of the issue quickly, and I expect others to do the same (or to at least try) before they start tossing out inane comments or telling me that I am wrong when they don't even appear to be on the same level. Sorry, that is not an insult, it is my perception. I am fallible, I am not teacher...I am just a person. I have no patience with people that spout assumptions about things that they don’t get and act arrogantly. If I don’t get something, I don’t say that I do. I use “I think” “It seems” “Perhaps” etc comments… When I am incorrect, I admit it. Almost every time I have been an *** to another, I have attempted to regain balance by apologizing. There are a few that continue to act like pricks, and I pick on them. I no longer care about what they say or what they think. You were in that group, along with galenrox and napoleon nightingale and ash and a few others that just don’t get it.

Here is how our interaction goes, I say something and you hear something entirely different. I can’t put it any more plainly than I have…just look at this one (these are pieced together but THEY ARE chronologically correct, so logically they are valid) :

Originally Posted by BodiSatva
Capitalism perfect? Quit ASSUMING… It is far from perfect.

Originally Posted by LeftyHenry
I'm not assuming. You're wrong as usual. You basically say it's… a given that it's perfect

What? Really now, how can you expect me to take you seriously for one second after that? Do you see how you totally changed what I said to meet some preconcieved misconception that you have? So...

Point #1
Admit that you assumed (for whatever bizarre reason, especially since I had just told you) that I don’t think that capitalism is perfect and then we can move on. I expect that first in your next post. Accountability. Responsibility. If not then you can just forget about the rest of our interaction. If so, great…read on.

As per or interactions: You then rip some imaginary argument that you made up for me. I then tell you are wrong but you are off on the false tangent and don’t understand what the hell you just did. You don’t listen. I tell you that you are off track but it seems to be the furthest thing from you mind and in frustration I treat you with insolence. You then you sit back and act as if my patronizing behavior justifies your position and that you were actually right about anything, when in fact we were not even debating any longer and you are languishing about in vain still trying to comprehend. This entire endeavor seems a joke to me to be honest, but perhaps we can salvage some decorum and learn from one another. Just look at some of this with fresh eyes…I will even lay it out in a systematic way for you so that you can more easily follow.

Originally Posted by LeftyHenry
Irrelevent because I acknowledge that capitalism is ****ed up. I recognize that people in this country can't afford to feed themselves regularly. You claim that capitalism works and that anyone who thinks otherwise is dillusional.

Point #2
Capitalism DOES work. If it didn’t, it would end. Socialism works too. Don’t ever forget that I said this please. But, my family has lived in capitalistic societies, as have others, for centuries. We have lived in socialist ones as well, some still do. There are more factors to consider than to simply see if every person is working and happy. Do you not realize this? There is poverty, starvation, and crime starve in all societies. People are unemployed higher in socialist countries, in general. So what? Socialism still works. Nothing that you can say negates the fact that capitalism works as well.

I think that your issue is the term, “works”. Is that it? Does “works” to you imply “the best system”? What is it? Point out how it does not work when it is a thriving system that forces competition and promotes work, creativity and innovation. Is capitalism perfect? Again…NO! Do people suffer…YES. Does capitalism allow MORE corruption than other systems…that is debatable…but perhaps it is so, though I will not just take a persons opinion at face value on that.

Point #3
Also, it is not irrelevant? You background is completely relevant. Why? You did not ask me what I acknowledge, you asked what I have “been” or experienced…

Originally Posted by LeftyHenry
have you ever been impoverished? because someone who says some **** like that completely ignores all the poverty, starvation, and crime which capitalism encourages and embraces. So I know he hasn't. If he did he'd know the system isn't perfect like he seems to think.

So I say again…

Originally Posted by BodiSatva
you need to provide information regarding YOUR background before I answer about mine. I don’t fall for the old tactics that enable one person to make accusation and not be held accountable for them.

Remember: Background…BACKGROUND! Not what you think, but what you HAVE EXPERIENCED!

Point #4

Originally Posted by LeftyHenry
You ignore all the poverty and oppression it creates

Again, I don’t ignore these issues. These issues happen everywhere. They always have and they always will, why? People have and always will be messed up for a variety of reasons. Can you eliminate greed from all people everywhere in the world? You don’t have a hope in hell to do so, so get real. Real. REAL. REALISM…not Impressionistic values, another concept that flew over your head. Don’t call me stupid or contradictory if you don’t even get what the hell I am talking about…ask a friggen question instead. Sorry, I started to go off a bit…

I will not get into another long drawn out stupid debate with you, I just got out of one with galenrox in which he was so totally devoid understanding and accountability that it was ridiculously stupid…I can still barely believe it.

So lets deal with the above questions and then see where we are. Cool? Cool. I await you response Lefty.

 

[LeftyHenry]

:rofl omg dude how long did it take you to write that lol?

Civil debate? That is not my intention. It WAS my intention when I first met you, but no longer. There was not point, so I decided to use you for my sadistic pleasure. Sorry that I used you and didn’t care and that you did not get it and that this bothered you…oh well.

ha ha was that when I said that there is no human nature and that you are effected by society you grow up in? Ya I remember that lol.

You seem genuinely bewildered as to how and why I talk to you the way that I do. It is a conscious choice that I initiated after dealing with you before. Most of your comments seem to be nothing but unbridled and biased assumption. Sorry. You barely seem to have the ability to communicate.

Just curious... Are you bipolar? Probably irrelevent. Not meant as an insult. I once knew someone who acted like you and claimed she was bipolar and took medication...

you don't have to answer that if you don't want to lol. In anycase. Of course I'm biased. You are too. Of course I make assumptions. You do to. Don't lie.

What? Really now, how can you expect me to take you seriously for one second after that? Do you see how you totally changed what I said to meet some preconcieved misconception that you have? So.

You were contradicting yourself. I was responding to what you said in your first post and what you've said in the past.

As per or interactions: You then rip some imaginary argument that you made up for me. I then tell you are wrong but you are off on the false tangent and don’t understand what the hell you just did. You don’t listen. I tell you that you are off track but it seems to be the furthest thing from you mind and in frustration I treat you with insolence.

That is a matter of opinion. You think I'm wrong. I think you're wrong. I think the exacty same for your posts.

Remember: Background…BACKGROUND! Not what you think, but what you HAVE EXPERIENCED!

I didn't come to my ideology blindly. My family was up and down and I've gone from living in terrible neighborhoods to decent ones. The reason why this is irrelevent now is because you admitted capitalism is not perfect. Your first post led me to think that. Also you're other posts are like that where you say **** like that randomly.

So lets deal with the above questions and then see where we are. Cool? Cool. I await you response Lefty.

okay cool

 

[BodiSatva]

Originally Posted by LeftyHenry
you admitted capitalism is not perfect. Your first post led me to think that. Also you're other posts are like that where you say **** like that randomly.

I have never...ever...EVER said that capitalism is perfect.
I have never...ever...EVER implied that capitalism is perfect.

Why is that? Because I don't think that capitalism is perfect.

Unless I say that capitalism is perfect, it would seem prudent to ask me if that is what I in fact do think prior to claiming falsely that you understand, when you don't.

Originally Posted by LeftyHenry
I didn't come to my ideology blindly. My family was up and down and I've gone from living in terrible neighborhoods to decent ones. The reason why this is irrelevent

Interesting. It is still relevant though. So has my family. In fact, I have lived and worked in the gang infested ghettos of the East Bay around Oakland...Richmond...and Vallejo. I see very well the other side thank you.

So your assumptions earlier were totally and grossly incorrect regarding this matter as well. Moving on...

It didn't take long to write really. Not bi-polar. No offense taken. I think fast and I can talk fast and I type fast...but I love long, slow and deep. I am not hitting on you there buddy boy.

How is it that I act then? Seriously...I think fast and I can connect dots that most people can't even see. That is what I do, and I am good at it. Is this false bravado? Nope, I also won 5 State Track and Field titles...it is just fact.

Of course we are all biased, me included. I think that I am right. Most people do. I take that into account and I try like hell to never ASSUME that I am right though. In doing so, I look at ALL angles and I actually ASSUME that I might not be correct in order to see my faults. Thus, I arrive at conclusions that are hopefully not biased, for I tackle my bias and use it against me in order to find the truth. Most people look at what is comfortable and stick with that, not much makes me uncomfortable, so I can look deeper. I do, and sometimes I find that this bothers people, looking at the real issue..oh well.

Also, In fact, I did not contradict myself...please show how and were I did if I am in fact, incorrect though. I look at what I say and write so that I don't box myself in...that is a simple minded thing my friend. :mrgreen:

It is not opinion in this case. I don't think that you are wrong. You are wrong. My chronology displayed that quite clearly. In fact, here it is again...

Originally Posted by BodiSatva
Capitalism perfect? Quit ASSUMING… It is far from perfect

Originally Posted by LeftyHenry
I'm not assuming. You're wrong as usual. You basically say it's… a given that it's perfect

I say that it is far from perfect and then you tell me I am wrong because you think that I say that it IS perfect. I said it is FAR FROM PERFECT. This is what I have ALWAYS contended. If I say that it works this in no way indicates that I think that it is perfect. To think so is your assumption and it does not make it true.

You did not address this point etiher. This was the first point. You talked about other things and that is fine, but this further illustrates my point that you don't stay ON POINT. I am saying one thing and you are creating a false tanget and sticking to that. I am not sure why. It is not your posts taht I think are wrong, it is the fact taht you keep along the same false tangent, thus following an invalid point.

I still want you to either somehow prove me incorrect, to which I will apologize, or for you to take responsibility for your incorrect staements and false tangent.

Thanks...

Talk to you soon Lefty