words of Jesus christ (1 Viewer)

[dragonslayer]

The World of Hate,

The hollow words, the words of oppression,
Words of blame cast, they seek to justify greed
Circles of pain cast by the oppressors
Denial and greed justify the pain and death

Before the election, pain and death threats emerge
forget Jesus, forget the faith, revel in the greed
forget the beatitudes, forget the love given to a world
Blame and kill, create troubles, rather than solve

Praying for death of Moslems and leaders of the poor
Create enemies and pray for their destruction
create confusion and mischief in the world
Seek power over and obedience from the poor.

Lie and live in a world of lies.

The world of Bush and the Radical Right Wing.

Neo Christians decry the sermons of Jesus, and say the message has been changed and we should change.

Read the words of Christ and admit that Christ was a liberal idealist.

The Beatitudes

Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.

Blessed are the gentle, for they shall inherit the earth.

Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.

Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy.

Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.

Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.

Blessed are those who have been persecuted for the sake of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me.

Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great; for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

Light of the world

You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt has become tasteless, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled under foot by men.
You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden; nor does anyone light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on the lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house.
Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.

New law and old law

Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Murder

You have heard that the ancients were told, "You shall not commit murder" and "Whoever commits murder shall be liable to the court."
But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, "You good-for-nothing," shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, "You fool," shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.

Reconcile your differences

Therefore if you are presenting your offering at the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, leave your offering there before the altar and go; first be reconciled to your brother, and then come and present your offering.
Make friends quickly with your opponent at law while you are with him on the way, so that your opponent may not hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the officer, and you be thrown into prison. Truly I say to you, you will not come out of there until you have paid up the last cent.

Adultery

You have heard that it was said, "You shall not commit adultery." But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
If your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. If your right hand makes you stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to go into hell.

Making false vows

Again, you have heard that the ancients were told, "You shall not make false vows, but shall fulfill your vows to the Lord."
But I say to you, make no oath at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God, or by the earth, for it is the footstool of His feet, or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great king. Nor shall you make an oath by your head, for you cannot make one hair white or black.
But let your statement be, "Yes, yes" or "No, no." Anything beyond these is of evil.

Go the extra mile
You have heard that it was said, "An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth."
But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.
If anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, let him have your coat also. Whoever forces you to go one mile, go with him two.
Give to him who asks of you, and do not turn away from him who wants to borrow from you.

Love your neighbor

You have heard that it was said, "You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy."
But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.
For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? If you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same?
Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

The Lords Prayer
This section of the Sermon on the Mount contains the Lord's prayer, and instructions on giving and fasting.

Giving
Beware of practicing your righteousness before men to be noticed by them; otherwise you have no reward with your Father who is in heaven.
So when you give to the poor, do not sound a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, so that they may be honored by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full.
But when you give to the poor, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving will be in secret; and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.

Pray in secret
When you pray, you are not to be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners so that they may be seen by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. But you, when you pray, go into your inner room, close your door and pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.
And when you are praying, do not use meaningless repetition as the Gentiles do, for they suppose that they will be heard for their many words. So do not be like them; for your Father knows what you need before you ask Him.

The Lord's Prayer
Pray, then, in this way:

Our Father who art in heaven,
Hallowed be Your name.
Your kingdom come.
Your will be done,
On earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors.
And do not lead us into temptation,
but deliver us from evil.
For Yours is the kingdom
and the power
and the glory forever.
Amen.

For if you forgive others for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.

 

[Arch Enemy]

wrong language bud

good try

 

[Ethereal]

Read the words of Christ and admit that Christ was a liberal idealist.

Christ cannot be defined by any silly, humanistic ideology. Christ is what He says He is; the Messiah. He wasn't a Liberal, a Conservative, a Moderate, a Libertarian or any other purely human designation. The only claim you can make is that Liberal idealists are more in line with the teachings of Christ than other political designations, but what you can't do is claim Christ was a de facto Liberal or Conservative or whatever.

 

[tecoyah]

Christ cannot be defined by any silly, humanistic ideology. Christ is what He says He is; the Messiah. He wasn't a Liberal, a Conservative, a Moderate, a Libertarian or any other purely human designation. The only claim you can make is that Liberal idealists are more in line with the teachings of Christ than other political designations, but what you can't do is claim Christ was a de facto Liberal or Conservative or whatever.

We actually cant claim ANYTHING about the Christ....its all hearsay, every single word. Christ did not write any of it.....period.

 

[dragonslayer]

Go to any online dictionary. look up the word Liberal.

Here is one:

lib•er•al

Pronunciation: (lib'ur-ul, lib'rul), [key]
—adj.
1. favorable to progress or reform, as in political or religious affairs.
2. (often cap.) noting or pertaining to a political party advocating measures of progressive political reform.
3. of, pertaining to, based on, or advocating liberalism.
4. favorable to or in accord with concepts of maximum individual freedom possible, esp. as guaranteed by law and secured by governmental protection of civil liberties.
5. favoring or permitting freedom of action, esp. with respect to matters of personal belief or expression: a liberal policy toward dissident artists and writers.
6. of or pertaining to representational forms of government rather than aristocracies and monarchies.
7. free from prejudice or bigotry; tolerant: a liberal attitude toward foreigners.
8. open-minded or tolerant, esp. free of or not bound by traditional or conventional ideas, values, etc.
9. characterized by generosity and willingness to give in large amounts: a liberal donor.
10. given freely or abundantly; generous: a liberal donation.
11. not strict or rigorous; free; not literal: a liberal interpretation of a rule.
12. of, pertaining to, or based on the liberal arts.
13. of, pertaining to, or befitting a freeman.

—n.
1. a person of liberal principles or views, esp. in politics or religion.
2. (often cap.) a member of a liberal party in politics, esp. of the Liberal party in Great Britain.

Lib•er•al

Pronunciation: (lib'ur-ul, lib'rul), [key]
—n.
a city in SW Kansas. 14,911.

Random House Unabridged Dictionary, Copyright © 1997, by Random House, Inc., on Infoplease.

Look ----go back to my post and read the Beatitudes. Go to any bible and read the beatitudes and the sermon on the mount. The words of Christ.

 

[Thelost1]

indeed, I rememer Christ speaking for change. therefore he was liberal.

 

[Columbusite]

Theocrats want change too, but I don't see that making them liberal.

 

[Thelost1]

accordin to the above definition, you're right. It is possible to have a liberal republican or a conservative democrat (In fact I know some)

 

[VTA]

Given that Christ was opposed to organized religion, due to the fact that organizations eventually become corrupt and focused more on their own existence, than what they're actually organized in favor of, it'd be safe to say he'd be neither liberal, nor conservative, nor ist nor crat, etc, etc, etc...

Just the self determining human being that we're all supposed to be.

 

[Thelost1]

yah, he's Jesus. He has no modern equivelant party.

 

[Amused]

We actually cant claim ANYTHING about the Christ....its all hearsay, every single word. Christ did not write any of it.....period.

This has not been responded to. There is little evidence of what he believed in, assuming he existed, just what those who wanted to control the movement said he believed. I think this would be just as applicable in determining of Harry Potter would vote Democrat or Republican.

 

[Btipton]

I'm going to ignore the fact that this enitre argument is so arrogant and childish for a moment. Besides the fact that Jesus cannot be defined by man's political ideals, your definition of Liberal is the literal one, the one that means "liberal" in a world perspective. In America our idea of Convservative is defined as the world politics definition of liberal. Our political parties are a little different and have mixed up terms over time.

But I'm sure you can defined the divine with Webster and your overwhelming great political sense.

 

[WMDLIAR]

The World of Hate,

The hollow words, the words of oppression,
Words of blame cast, they seek to justify greed
Circles of pain cast by the oppressors
Denial and greed justify the pain and death

Before the election, pain and death threats emerge
forget Jesus, forget the faith, revel in the greed
forget the beatitudes, forget the love given to a world
Blame and kill, create troubles, rather than solve

Praying for death of Moslems and leaders of the poor
Create enemies and pray for their destruction
create confusion and mischief in the world
Seek power over and obedience from the poor.

Lie and live in a world of lies.

The world of Bush and the Radical Right Wing.

Neo Christians decry the sermons of Jesus, and say the message has been changed and we should change.

Read the words of Christ and admit that Christ was a liberal idealist.

The Beatitudes

Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.

Blessed are the gentle, for they shall inherit the earth.

Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.

Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy.

Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.

Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.

Blessed are those who have been persecuted for the sake of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me.

Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great; for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

Light of the world

You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt has become tasteless, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled under foot by men.
You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden; nor does anyone light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on the lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house.
Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.

New law and old law

Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Murder

You have heard that the ancients were told, "You shall not commit murder" and "Whoever commits murder shall be liable to the court."
But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, "You good-for-nothing," shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, "You fool," shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.

Reconcile your differences

Therefore if you are presenting your offering at the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, leave your offering there before the altar and go; first be reconciled to your brother, and then come and present your offering.
Make friends quickly with your opponent at law while you are with him on the way, so that your opponent may not hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the officer, and you be thrown into prison. Truly I say to you, you will not come out of there until you have paid up the last cent.

Adultery

You have heard that it was said, "You shall not commit adultery." But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
If your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. If your right hand makes you stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to go into hell.

Making false vows

Again, you have heard that the ancients were told, "You shall not make false vows, but shall fulfill your vows to the Lord."
But I say to you, make no oath at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God, or by the earth, for it is the footstool of His feet, or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great king. Nor shall you make an oath by your head, for you cannot make one hair white or black.
But let your statement be, "Yes, yes" or "No, no." Anything beyond these is of evil.

Go the extra mile
You have heard that it was said, "An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth."
But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.
If anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, let him have your coat also. Whoever forces you to go one mile, go with him two.
Give to him who asks of you, and do not turn away from him who wants to borrow from you.

Love your neighbor

You have heard that it was said, "You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy."
But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.
For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? If you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same?
Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

The Lords Prayer
This section of the Sermon on the Mount contains the Lord's prayer, and instructions on giving and fasting.

Giving
Beware of practicing your righteousness before men to be noticed by them; otherwise you have no reward with your Father who is in heaven.
So when you give to the poor, do not sound a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, so that they may be honored by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full.
But when you give to the poor, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving will be in secret; and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.

Pray in secret
When you pray, you are not to be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners so that they may be seen by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. But you, when you pray, go into your inner room, close your door and pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.
And when you are praying, do not use meaningless repetition as the Gentiles do, for they suppose that they will be heard for their many words. So do not be like them; for your Father knows what you need before you ask Him.

The Lord's Prayer
Pray, then, in this way:

Our Father who art in heaven,
Hallowed be Your name.
Your kingdom come.
Your will be done,
On earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors.
And do not lead us into temptation,
but deliver us from evil.
For Yours is the kingdom
and the power
and the glory forever.
Amen.

For if you forgive others for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.

I find it interesting that there is no "Book of Jesus". Only what others have said that Jesus said. Can you say "rhetoric"? Can you say "heresay"? Can you say "propoganda"? Can you say "you my biatch!"? Can you say "BUSTED!"?

 

[UtahBill]

yah, he's Jesus. He has no modern equivelant party.

and precious few followers of his teachings.....
Most Christian leaders pick and choose what they want from the Bible, and mostly they choose words that make good weapons to use against those who believe even a little bit differently.....
I hope there is a special place in hell for preachers, priests, and pastors who knowingly twist words for financial gain.
Oops, that was very un-christian of me.

 

[alienken]

I find it interesting that there is no "Book of Jesus". Only what others have said that Jesus said. Can you say "rhetoric"? Can you say "heresay"? Can you say "propoganda"? Can you say "you my biatch!"? Can you say "BUSTED!"?

Book of Jesus? What? Jesus chose His disciples to record His teachings and to continue His work after He was gone. The four gosples- Mathew, Mark Luke, John, were actual witnesses to the existence and works of Jesus Christ. In some states, if four people testified that you killed someone, that's enough to convict you....Historians have recorded that a man named Jesus Christ did exist.

 

[alienken]

I'm going to ignore the fact that this enitre argument is so arrogant and childish for a moment. Besides the fact that Jesus cannot be defined by man's political ideals, your definition of Liberal is the literal one, the one that means "liberal" in a world perspective. In America our idea of Convservative is defined as the world politics definition of liberal. Our political parties are a little different and have mixed up terms over time.

But I'm sure you can defined the divine with Webster and your overwhelming great political sense.

I've heard the liberal arguement before. They claimed that since Jesus said to help the poor then Christians should be for raising taxes of people that work for a living then give it to the people who don't. They think we are hypocrites because we don't fall for it. There has been research that proves that Cons. give more money to charity than Libs.. I am a Christian Conservative without going against the teachings of Jesus and the rest of the New Testament.Try as they might they can't twist the Holy Word Of God to prove me wrong.

 

[1069]

Book of Jesus? What? Jesus chose His disciples to record His teachings and to continue His work after He was gone. The four gosples- Mathew, Mark Luke, John, were actual witnesses to the existence and works of Jesus Christ. In some states, if four people testified that you killed someone, that's enough to convict you....Historians have recorded that a man named Jesus Christ did exist.

I think it's been definitively established that the authors Mark, Luke, and John could not have known Jesus personally and were not the disciples of those names referred to in the gospels.
Matthew is the only one of the authors who may have known Jesus personally, although historians dispute this.
The gospels were written 60-70 to 140 years after the death of Jesus.
The authors may or may not have known each other, and apparently were familiar with one another's work.
See Synoptic problem and Synoptic gospels.

Would you please provide evidence to support the statement emphasized in bold text?
Considering that the Romans were consummate record-keepers and bureaucrats, and considering the extensive public hullabaloo which supposedly surrounded the life and especially the execution of Jesus, it seems unlikely that there would not be extensive public records of his existence, if in fact he had ever existed.

A hint: if he had existed, his name would not have been "Jesus Christ".
"Christ" is more an honorary title, which means 'messiah' or 'savior' or maybe something like 'prophet'.
Remember John said, "Jesus is the Christ..."?
It's not like Christ was his last name or something. His mom and dad weren't named "Joseph and Mary Christ".
Plus, I think his first name was really Jacob, not Jesus.

So anyway... yeah.
Please provide this documentation that Jesus existed, as I'd be extremely interested in seeing it.
I've researched the matter extensively, and come to the conclusion that the Biblical Christ is an allegorical character rather than an actual historical personage.

 

[alienken]

I think it's been definitively established that the authors Mark, Luke, and John could not have known Jesus personally and were not the disciples of those names referred to in the gospels.
Matthew is the only one of the authors who may have known Jesus personally, although historians dispute this.
The gospels were written 60-70 to 140 years after the death of Jesus.
The authors may or may not have known each other, and apparently were familiar with one another's work.
See Synoptic problem and Synoptic gospels.

I'm looking in my Bible now. Matthew was the Author . Matthew 9:9 "As jesus went from there, he saw a man named Matthew sitting at the tax collector's booth.'Follow me' he told him, and Matthew got up and followed him." Matthew was a disciple. Mark was a companion of Peter and was there during the travels of Jesus. Luke was a friend and traveling companion to Paul and was present during their journeys. John was an apostle and he was there. These are the authors of the books that witnessed the life and the miracles of Jesus. You can quote wikipedia but I'll stick with my Bible.

 

[1069]

"As jesus went from there, he saw a man named Matthew sitting at the tax collector's booth.'Follow me' he told him, and Matthew got up and followed him."

Matthew might possibly have been one of the twelve disciples referred to in the gospels (although if he was, it's curious that he chose to write about himself in the third person tense).
Luke, John, and Mark (the authors of the gospels) did not know Jesus personally and were not the same people as the alleged disciples of those same names.
This is not in dispute. It's already been established. There is no reputable historical scholar who claims these three were the disciples of Jesus, or ever knew his personally.
Why don't you discuss it with your priest or pastor, if you're a churchgoer.
I'm sure you'll accept his word for it more readily than mine.

 

[hereyago]

the bible contradicts itself a lot.

i can give you contradictions to what you've just said

 

[1069]

You can quote wikipedia but I'll stick with my Bible.

Well, that's certainly your perogative; I, however, have my doubts as to whether the bible qualifies impartial and empirical source of information on whether or not the information in the bible is true.
That's sort of like if I wanted to find out if the Webster's Dictionary was accurate, so I looked it up in the Webster's Dictionary.
I think when you're researching the authenticity of a document, it's always a good idea to look to some outside sources.

Then again, religiosity is based on faith- on faith alone- and believers should require no "evidence"; in fact if they do, I'd venture to say they aren't real Christians.

PS Still eagerly awaiting evidence to back up your assertion that, quote, "Historians have recorded that a man named Jesus Christ did exist."

Or perhaps the "historians" you were referring to are Matthew, Mark, John, and Luke?

 

[UtahBill]

From my many hours watching the history channel shows, there is historical evidence from the governments of the day of the existence of Jesus. I can't quote any references, tho. Wikipedia mentions writings of Josephus that is a non-Christian source.
Same kinds of history channel shows, tho, question how it is that a Bedouin campsite that is over 5000 years old can be found, but NO evidence has been found that supports the exodus, and that was many, many thousands of people traveling for 40 years over half of Egypt. That kind of population in a desert should have left tons of evidence of their passing.
One of the shows had a Jewish scholar admitting that many of the stories in the OT may have been pure fabrications done for the purpose of unifying the many tribes of Israel so they could have political and economic power.
Not saying anything is true, or untrue, just wondering, and watching, and considering......

 

[alienken]

Matthew might possibly have been one of the twelve disciples referred to in the gospels (although if he was, it's curious that he chose to write about himself in the third person tense).
Luke, John, and Mark (the authors of the gospels) did not know Jesus personally and were not the same people as the alleged disciples of those same names.
This is not in dispute. It's already been established. There is no reputable historical scholar who claims these three were the disciples of Jesus, or ever knew his personally.
Why don't you discuss it with your priest or pastor, if you're a churchgoer.
I'm sure you'll accept his word for it more readily than mine.

That is just wrong.How can the four Gospels be written, as witnesses to the miracles and teachings of Jesus, be authored by some totally different, that happen to have the same names? Paul the apostle wrote I & II Corinthians to the Corinthian church from prison. Was this also someone else? I don't have to ask my preacher, it's in the sermons all the time and it's obvious if you do any studying at all. I have been reading a commentary on the Book of John and it reads as John witnessed the travels of Jesus to the point of the Crucifixion then after He rose from the dead. There are people out there that will twist the scriptures to dis prove it's validity and it's simple enough to prove them wrong just by reading it.

 

[alienken]

Well, that's certainly your perogative; I, however, have my doubts as to whether the bible qualifies impartial and empirical source of information on whether or not the information in the bible is true.
That's sort of like if I wanted to find out if the Webster's Dictionary was accurate, so I looked it up in the Webster's Dictionary.
I think when you're researching the authenticity of a document, it's always a good idea to look to some outside sources.

Then again, religiosity is based on faith- on faith alone- and believers should require no "evidence"; in fact if they do, I'd venture to say they aren't real Christians.

PS Still eagerly awaiting evidence to back up your assertion that, quote, "Historians have recorded that a man named Jesus Christ did exist."

Or perhaps the "historians" you were referring to are Matthew, Mark, John, and Luke?

I know these kind of debates go no where because my information comes from the Bible which does you no good if don't believe in the Bible. It's not faith only, there is scientific evidence.There is a movement in the science comunity i think it's common design, proving that there is a Creator at work when you look at the biology of animals. To tell you the trueth I'm not up to date on these things. I could research it, bring the info back here so it can be dismissed as some sort of Christian propaganda. I just don't have that kind of time to waste. Convincing an atheist that there is a God is next to impossible because it goes against his/her faith. It would be like trying to convince me that God does not exist, it's just not going to happen.

 

[Feela]

yah, he's Jesus. He has no modern equivelant party.

Tolstoy thought he was an anarchist.