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Woman Gets Raped Then Sentenced To Beating

I think the biggest difference is many (or all?) Muslim countries do not separate religion from state. Until they do, things will not change.

Considering the roots of Islam and how it is married to governance, I don't see this happening ever. The most we could hope for is a healthier marriage.
 
Hey pete, want to see a REAL Muslim country where women have REAL rights?

Religions
Muslim 94%, Christian 5% (mostly Roman Catholic), indigenous beliefs 1%


CONSTITUTION OF THE REPUBLIC OF SENEGAL

CONSTITUTION OF THE REPUBLIC OF SENEGAL
Adopted on 7 January 2001

The sovereign people of Senegal,
Deeply attached to their fundamental cultural values which constitute the cement of national unity;
Convinced of the will of all citizens, both men and women, to embrace a common destiny through solidarity, work and patriotic commitment;
Considering that national construction rests upon individual freedom and respect for the human person, sources of creativity;
Conscious of the need to affirm and to consolidate the foundations of the nation and the state;
Committed to the ideal of African unity;
Affirm:
• their adherence to the Declaration of Human Rights of 1789 as well as to the international instruments adopted by the United Nations and the Organization of African Unity, in particular the Universal Declaration of Human Rights of 10 December 1948, the Convention on the Elimination of all Forms of Discrimination Against Women of 18 December 1979, the Convention on the Rights of the Child of 20 November 1989 and the African Charter on Human and Peoples’ Rights of 27 June 1981;
• their commitment to transparency in the running and management of public affairs as well as to the principles of good governance;
• their determination to fight for peace and fraternity together with all the peoples of the world;
Proclaim:
• the inviolable principle of national territorial integrity and national unity with due respect for the cultural specificity of all the components of the nation;
• the unassailability of national sovereignty which is expressed through transparent and democratic procedures and consultations;
• the respect for fundamental freedoms and civil rights as the basis of Senegalese society;
• the observance and consolidation of the rule of law in which the state and the citizens are subjected to the same legal norms under the control of an independent and impartial judiciary;
• access to the exercise of power at all levels, for all citizens, without discrimination;
• equal access to public services for all citizens;
• the rejection and elimination of all forms of injustice, inequality and discrimination;
• the will of Senegal to be a modern state run according to the fair and loyal interaction between a governing majority and a democratic opposition, and a state which recognises such opposition as a fundamental pillar of democracy and an indispensable part of the democratic mechanism;
Approve and adopt this Constitution of which the Preamble is an integral part.

TITLE I: THE STATE AND SOVEREIGNTY

Article 1

The Republic of Senegal shall be secular, democratic and social. It shall ensure equality before the law for all citizens, without distinction as to origin, race, sex or religion. It shall respect all faiths. The official language of the Republic of Senegal shall be French. The national languages shall be Diolo, Malinke, Poular, Serer, Soninke and Wolof and any other national language which has been codified. …


Article 3

National Sovereignty shall belong to the Senegalese people who shall exercise it through their representatives or by way of referendum. No section of the people nor any individual may assume the exercise of sovereignty. Suffrage may be direct or indirect. It shall always be universal, equal and secret. All Senegalese nationals of either sex who have attained the age of 18 years and enjoy civil and political rights, shall be eligible to vote under the conditions determined by law.

Article 4

Political parties and coalitions of political parties shall contribute to the expression of suffrage. They shall be required to respect the Constitution and thus the principles of national sovereignty and democracy. They are prevented from identifying themselves by race, ethnicity, sex, religion, sect, language or region.
...
Article 5
Any act of racial, ethnic or religious discrimination as well as any regionalist propaganda capable of interfering with the internal security of the state or the territorial integrity of the Republic, shall be punished by law.

TITLE II: PUBLIC LIBERTIES AND THE PERSON
Article 7

The human person is sacred. The human person is inviolable. The state shall have the obligation to respect it and to protect it. Every individual has the right to life, to freedom, to security, the free development of his or her personality, to corporal integrity, and especially to protection against physical mutilation. The Senegalese people recognise the existence of sacred and inalienable human rights as the basis of any human community, of peace and of justice in Senegal and the world. All human beings shall be equal before the law. Men and women shall be equal in law. No one in Senegal shall have any liabilities or privileges based upon places of birth, status or family.

Article 8

The Republic of Senegal guarantees to all citizens their individual fundamental freedoms, economic and social rights as well as group rights. These freedoms and rights are: Civil and political liberties, freedom of opinion, freedom of expression, press freedom, freedom of association, freedom to hold meetings, freedom of movement, freedom to protest, cultural freedoms, religious freedoms, philosophical freedoms, union freedoms, freedom of enterprise, the right to education, the right to literacy, the right to property, the right to work, the right to health, the right to a healthy environment, and the right to a variety of information. These freedoms and rights shall be exercised under the conditions provided by law.

Article 9

Any infringement of these freedoms and any international restriction of the exercise of a freedom shall be punishable by law. No-one may be convicted other than by virtue of a law which became effective before the act was committed. Defence is an absolute right at all stages and at all levels of the proceedings.

Article 10

Everyone shall have the right to freely express and disseminate his opinions by word, pen or image or peaceful march, provided that the exercise of these rights shall not undermine the honour of and respect due to other persons, nor threaten public order.
Article 11
The creation of a press body for information on politics, the economy, culture, sports, recreation or science shall be free and shall not be subject to prior authorisation of any kind. Press regulations shall be set by the law.

Article 12

All citizens shall have the right to freely constitute associations and economic, cultural and social groups as well as societies, on condition that they comply with the formalities set down by the laws and regulations. Groups whose aim or activity is contrary to the penal laws or directed against public order shall be prohibited.

Article 13

The secrecy of correspondence and of postal, telegraphic, telephonic or electronic communications shall be inviolable. This inviolability shall be subject only to such restrictions as are made applicable by law.

Article 14

All citizens of the Republic shall have the right to move freely or settle anywhere, within the national territory and abroad. These freedoms shall be exercised under the conditions provided by the law.

Article 15

The right of property is guaranteed by the present Constitution. It may not be impaired except in the case of public necessity, legally established and subject to the prior payment of just compensation. Men and women shall have equal rights to gain possession of and own land subject to conditions determined by the law.

Article 16

The home shall be inviolable. A house search may not be ordered except by a judge or another authority designated by law. Searches may be conducted only in the form prescribed by these authorities. Measures impairing or restricting the inviolability of the home may be taken only in order to provide against a common danger or to protect persons in danger of death. Such measures may also be taken, pursuant to law, in order to protect public order against impending threat and especially to combat the risks of epidemics or to protect youth in danger.
Marriage and the Family

Article 17

Marriage and the family shall constitute the natural and moral basis for the human community. They shall be placed under the protection of the state. The state and the public collectively shall have the social duty to watch over the physical and moral well-being of the family and, in particular, of the handicapped and the aged. The state guarantees families in general and those living in rural areas in particular access to health and welfare services. It also guarantees women in general and those living in rural areas in particular the right to improve their living conditions.

Article 18

Forced marriage is a violation of personal freedom. It shall be forbidden and punished according to conditions laid down by law.

Article 19

Wives shall have the same right to worldly goods and property as their husbands. They shall have the personal right to manage their goods and property.

Article 20

Parents shall have the natural right and the duty to raise their children. They shall be supported in this task by the state and public collectivities. Youth shall be protected by the state and public groups against exploitation, drugs, narcotics, moral neglect and delinquency.

Education

Article 21

The state and the public collectivities shall create the preliminary conditions and the public institutions which shall guarantee the education of children.

Article 22

The state shall have the duty and the task of educating and training the youth through public schools. All children, boys and girls, throughout the national territory, shall have the right to attend school. Religious and non-religious institutions and communities shall also be recognised as educational facilities. All national, public or private institutions shall have the duty to see to it that their members learn to read and write; they shall have the duty to participate in the national literacy effort which aims to ensure that everyone can read and write one of the national languages.

Article 23

Private schools may be opened with the authorisation and under the supervision of the state.
Religions and Religious Communities

Article 24

Freedom of conscience and the free practice and profession of religion and culture, and the profession of religious education shall, subject to the respect for public order, be guaranteed to all. Religious institutions and communities shall have the right to develop without hindrance. They shall not be subject to direct supervision by the state. They shall regulate and administer their affairs autonomously.
...cut...

For President Wades fight he's called Anti Islamic Western Puppet.
This is a Muslim country that has COME out of the dark ages!
 
FOXNews.com - Saudi Kidnap, Rape Victim Faces Lashing for 'Crime' of Being Alone With Man Not Related to Her - Middle East Map | News | Crisis

That's pretty cool: a woman gets violated and the authorities say it was her fault for going outside her home with a man that wasn't a member of her family, then sentence her to be whipped 90 times like a dog.

Why does Islamic culture seem to hate women so much?

Before we all get on our high horses we should note that saudi arabias current regime would not be so powerful where it not for western imperialism.
 
This aint islamic culture

Surah 4:34 - Men have authority over women because Allah has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because Allah has guarded them. As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and forsake them in beds apart, and beat them. Then if they obey you, take no further action against them. Allah is high and supreme.

You should do research before posting to avoid getting a quote thrown in your face.
 
Before we all get on our high horses we should note that saudi arabias current regime would not be so powerful where it not for western imperialism.

hahhaha wow. Somehow this guy always seems to try to blame every problem on "American Imperialism".

Talk about a high horse LOL
 
So, your argument was that this ill treatment has much more to do with man's evil rather than Islam as a religion.

Exactly.

You implied very much that Saudi Arabian mistreatment was exclusive within the Muslim world.

The hell I did. All I stated was that this result in Saudi was just that, a result of the Saudi (twisted) legal system and would not have given a similar result in other muslim countries. That does not mean the woman would be punished in other countries, but she might not have been beaten. In fact if had been the taliban then she would probally have been executed and in Turkey nothing would have happened to the woman. The whole thread implied heavily that the Saudi case was typical of the muslim world, and it aint. The end result for the women varies from country to country, but I will say that "punishing the victim" if its a women is common in quite a few Muslim countries, but far from all.

It would be like saying that all nations forbid the death penalty as punishment, when a majority of nations do so. But we all know several large and powerfull nations still use this form of punishment.
 
hahhaha wow. Somehow this guy always seems to try to blame every problem on "American Imperialism".

Talk about a high horse LOL

But surely if you prop up a brutal regime like this one then you have a degree of responsibility for its actions.If your so concerned about what this regime does you should lobby your government to stop arming it.
 
Surah 4:34 - Men have authority over women because Allah has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because Allah has guarded them. As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and forsake them in beds apart, and beat them. Then if they obey you, take no further action against them. Allah is high and supreme.

You should do research before posting to avoid getting a quote thrown in your face.

There are the same kinds of verses in the Bible. The problem is not the Koran, its the people who respect it literally, as Christians used to do.
 
Sisyphe.org - Injustice pour une femme violée

Oh gosh! A woman has been raped in Quebec by 13 guys, the policemen did not believe her, and now there aren't any proofs anymore (too late to take the DNA) so the 13 guys are still free, and their advocates condemned her to pay the trial.

The Bible really hate women: Genesis 3, 14-16

To the woman he said,
"I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing;
with pain you will give birth to children.
Your desire will be for your husband,
and he will rule over you."


Let's bomb Quebec.
 
hahhaha wow. Somehow this guy always seems to try to blame every problem on "American Imperialism".

Talk about a high horse LOL

It's the "one size fits all" approach to politics. You see -- the entire world is made up of nothing but evil oppressor westerners and brave and noble indiginies who suffer this oppression. Right and wrong is not determined by the nature of the act but by the identity of those indulging in the act, and so instead of commenting at all about the rape, the support systems endemic to the society that enables the rapes, or showing even the tiniest degree of sympathy for the rape victim, just wave a wan little hand and apply that one size fits all mindless platitude.
 
It would just kill you if there were something out there that you couldn't blame the US for, wouldn't it?

No, the reality is that those people are Islamic, they believe in Islamic government, and if we remove one Islamic government, another is gonna pop up right back in its place. And Islam is stuck behind the times, and so **** like this happens, it's brutal, terrible, and the exact same **** we were doing a few hundred years back.

Did i even mention the U.S? I was critciseing the west as a whole. Europe is just as guilty which is why i campain for greater regulation on who we sell weapons to. Im not dennying that the regime in question is bad. Thats the very reason we need to end western support to it.

The reason this kind of fundamentalism is prevelent in saudi-arabia is that it is santioned by the saudi government. There are many in saudi arabia who oposse this but sadly their not the ones with high tec western weaponary.
Surely we should be looking into solutions to this rather than making chauvinistic statements about a regime we support?

Similar theocratic political structures where in place in europe a few centurys back, particually in places like france. These structures only ended when the "ancien regime" [the church, the feudal lords, and the monarchy] was removed from its seat of power during the liberal revolutions. [The french revolution e.t.c]

If theres ever to be any progress in saudi-arabia then saudi arabia's ancien regime [the monarchy and religious hierarchy] must also be ousted. Rather then backing this process the west is blocking the road to progress by provideing tax-payer subsidised weaponary to the saudi government.
 
It's the "one size fits all" approach to politics. You see -- the entire world is made up of nothing but evil oppressor westerners and brave and noble indiginies who suffer this oppression. Right and wrong is not determined by the nature of the act but by the identity of those indulging in the act, and so instead of commenting at all about the rape, the support systems endemic to the society that enables the rapes, or showing even the tiniest degree of sympathy for the rape victim, just wave a wan little hand and apply that one size fits all mindless platitude.

yes thats why ive been criticizing Hezbollah and the Iranian government [one ive said needs ousting on a number of ocasions]:roll:
 
But surely if you prop up a brutal regime like this one then you have a degree of responsibility for its actions.If your so concerned about what this regime does you should lobby your government to stop arming it.

For his next trick, Red_Dave will be explaining how George Bush caused hurricane Katrina by spinning around really fast on his Yacht in the Gulf of Mexico.
 
Did i even mention the U.S? I was critciseing the west as a whole. Europe is just as guilty which is why i campain for greater regulation on who we sell weapons to. Im not dennying that the regime in question is bad. Thats the very reason we need to end western support to it.

The reason this kind of fundamentalism is prevelent in saudi-arabia is that it is santioned by the saudi government. There are many in saudi arabia who oposse this but sadly their not the ones with high tec western weaponary.
Surely we should be looking into solutions to this rather than making chauvinistic statements about a regime we support?

Similar theocratic political structures where in place in europe a few centurys back, particually in places like france. These structures only ended when the "ancien regime" [the church, the feudal lords, and the monarchy] was removed from its seat of power during the liberal revolutions. [The french revolution e.t.c]

If theres ever to be any progress in saudi-arabia then saudi arabia's ancien regime [the monarchy and religious hierarchy] must also be ousted. Rather then backing this process the west is blocking the road to progress by provideing tax-payer subsidised weaponary to the saudi government.

Oh...my...god. How am I even supposed to read that?

critciseing = criticizing
campain = campaign
Im = I'm
dennying = denying
prevelent = prevalent
santioned = sanctioned
oposse = oppose
tec = tech
weaponary = weaponry
centurys = centuries
particually = particularly
ancien (x 2) = ancient
provideing = providing
subsidised = subsidized

Seriously buddy, if you're going to try to debate serious issues you should at least paste it into MS Word or something. Firefox 2.0 has a built in spell checker for God's sake. Go download it. Mozilla Download
 
No, the reality is that those people are Islamic, they believe in Islamic government, and if we remove one Islamic government, another is gonna pop up right back in its place. And Islam is stuck behind the times, and so **** like this happens, it's brutal, terrible, and the exact same **** we were doing a few hundred years back.

This is a very good example of evolutionism. Thank you!
 
For his next trick, Red_Dave will be explaining how George Bush caused hurricane Katrina by spinning around really fast on his Yacht in the Gulf of Mexico.

I guess he'll rather explain where the Saudis found their M1 Abrahams or their F-15...where Iran bought F-5's, F-14's, F-4's, Chinooks...probably a genie in a lamp?
 
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Did i even mention the U.S? I was critciseing the west as a whole. Europe is just as guilty which is why i campain for greater regulation on who we sell weapons to. Im not dennying that the regime in question is bad. Thats the very reason we need to end western support to it.

As bad as the Saudi regime is it's nothing compared to what would happen if it was toppled.
 
For his next trick, Red_Dave will be explaining how George Bush caused hurricane Katrina by spinning around really fast on his Yacht in the Gulf of Mexico.

I never mentioned George Bush I was merely surgesting that those of us in the west had an element of responsiblity, therefore we should be lobbying to prevent these people from being armed. Incidently "Ancien Régime" is a french term:roll:
 
Really? Because the last time I checked Iraq was controlled by a Democratic government and insurgent violence is mostly relegated to three provinces.

Ahahah :rofl Last time I checked there was a civil war and thousands of US soldiers unable to control the situation ;)
 
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