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Woman Fined $700 for selling tamales

Patrickt

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REGULATORS STRIKE AGAIN AND IT'S IN PRO-BUSINESS TEXAS.

"A few months back, Cruz decided to whip up some masa, steam up some corn husks and post on Nextdoor she was selling tamales.“It’s just so common. That’s why to me, I don’t understand why it’s such a big deal,” said Cruz.
But it was a big deal and carried $700 fine with the offense.
“When it hit me, I was like that is a lot of money,” said Cruz.
When she called the city, a clerk told her someone reported her for not having a food permit to sell the tamales."
Woman Fighting Fine For Selling Tamales Without Permit « CBS Dallas / Fort Worth

This isn't new. Where I worked in the U.S. a man would come around to our offices in the morning selling breakfast burritos. He sold to government offices, banks, and other large businesses downtown for months. Then one day, poof, he's gone.

I went to his hime to find out what happened. His wife had been getting up very early, making a few hundred burritos and wrapping them in tinfoil. He carried insulated containers around selling the burritos. Until a neighbor who didn't want to get up early and make burritos got jealous. The neighbor was on welfare and hated to see people, you know, working. So, the government put a stop to that.

But, perhaps it's necessary. The article explained the $700 fine.
"A director said a fine was issued and not a warning because tamales are considered “potentially hazardous food” due to the cooked corn and meat being used.
“What if somebody got sick from them? What if somebody could have died from them? And I completely understand those concerns,” said Cruz."

So, what if someone did get sick? Well, they could not buy any more tamales. Or, they could sue the woman. What if I'm invited to my boss's house for dinner and I get sick? My god, what is the government doing to protect me from that? What is I am a terrible cook and my family gets sick eating at home? Shouldn't the government do something about that? Shouldn't we have government standards for kitchens at home, where most people eat? Shouldn't cooks have to be licensed? How can they leave this vital area of our lives unregulated. I'm so afraid I need to hide in my closet.

This woman is not a victim of regulators to protect you and me. She's a victim because jealous neighbors turned her in to the regulators and the regulators do what regulators do. They stomp on people. They destroy opportunity. They attack families. They attack small business.

But, but, doesn't the government have to look out for me? Sure, call Lois Lerner if you need help.
 

AliHajiSheik

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REGULATORS STRIKE AGAIN AND IT'S IN PRO-BUSINESS TEXAS.

"A few months back, Cruz decided to whip up some masa, steam up some corn husks and post on Nextdoor she was selling tamales.“It’s just so common. That’s why to me, I don’t understand why it’s such a big deal,” said Cruz.
But it was a big deal and carried $700 fine with the offense.
“When it hit me, I was like that is a lot of money,” said Cruz.
When she called the city, a clerk told her someone reported her for not having a food permit to sell the tamales."
Woman Fighting Fine For Selling Tamales Without Permit « CBS Dallas / Fort Worth

This isn't new. Where I worked in the U.S. a man would come around to our offices in the morning selling breakfast burritos. He sold to government offices, banks, and other large businesses downtown for months. Then one day, poof, he's gone.

I went to his hime to find out what happened. His wife had been getting up very early, making a few hundred burritos and wrapping them in tinfoil. He carried insulated containers around selling the burritos. Until a neighbor who didn't want to get up early and make burritos got jealous. The neighbor was on welfare and hated to see people, you know, working. So, the government put a stop to that.

But, perhaps it's necessary. The article explained the $700 fine.
"A director said a fine was issued and not a warning because tamales are considered “potentially hazardous food” due to the cooked corn and meat being used.
“What if somebody got sick from them? What if somebody could have died from them? And I completely understand those concerns,” said Cruz."

So, what if someone did get sick? Well, they could not buy any more tamales. Or, they could sue the woman. What if I'm invited to my boss's house for dinner and I get sick? My god, what is the government doing to protect me from that? What is I am a terrible cook and my family gets sick eating at home? Shouldn't the government do something about that? Shouldn't we have government standards for kitchens at home, where most people eat? Shouldn't cooks have to be licensed? How can they leave this vital area of our lives unregulated. I'm so afraid I need to hide in my closet.

This woman is not a victim of regulators to protect you and me. She's a victim because jealous neighbors turned her in to the regulators and the regulators do what regulators do. They stomp on people. They destroy opportunity. They attack families. They attack small business.

But, but, doesn't the government have to look out for me? Sure, call Lois Lerner if you need help.

If she were illegal, should she also be deported? I heard some regulators do that too when enforcing laws.
 

sangha

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REGULATORS STRIKE AGAIN AND IT'S IN PRO-BUSINESS TEXAS.

"A few months back, Cruz decided to whip up some masa, steam up some corn husks and post on Nextdoor she was selling tamales.“It’s just so common. That’s why to me, I don’t understand why it’s such a big deal,” said Cruz.
But it was a big deal and carried $700 fine with the offense.
“When it hit me, I was like that is a lot of money,” said Cruz.
When she called the city, a clerk told her someone reported her for not having a food permit to sell the tamales."
Woman Fighting Fine For Selling Tamales Without Permit « CBS Dallas / Fort Worth

This isn't new. Where I worked in the U.S. a man would come around to our offices in the morning selling breakfast burritos. He sold to government offices, banks, and other large businesses downtown for months. Then one day, poof, he's gone.

I went to his hime to find out what happened. His wife had been getting up very early, making a few hundred burritos and wrapping them in tinfoil. He carried insulated containers around selling the burritos. Until a neighbor who didn't want to get up early and make burritos got jealous. The neighbor was on welfare and hated to see people, you know, working. So, the government put a stop to that.

But, perhaps it's necessary. The article explained the $700 fine.
"A director said a fine was issued and not a warning because tamales are considered “potentially hazardous food” due to the cooked corn and meat being used.
“What if somebody got sick from them? What if somebody could have died from them? And I completely understand those concerns,” said Cruz."

So, what if someone did get sick? Well, they could not buy any more tamales. Or, they could sue the woman. What if I'm invited to my boss's house for dinner and I get sick? My god, what is the government doing to protect me from that? What is I am a terrible cook and my family gets sick eating at home? Shouldn't the government do something about that? Shouldn't we have government standards for kitchens at home, where most people eat? Shouldn't cooks have to be licensed? How can they leave this vital area of our lives unregulated. I'm so afraid I need to hide in my closet.

This woman is not a victim of regulators to protect you and me. She's a victim because jealous neighbors turned her in to the regulators and the regulators do what regulators do. They stomp on people. They destroy opportunity. They attack families. They attack small business.

But, but, doesn't the government have to look out for me? Sure, call Lois Lerner if you need help.

So let me see if I understand this

Some guy shows up at your office selling burritos, and when he stops showing up you visit him at home because you know where "some guy who sells burritos" lives?

And then, when you talk to him, he says the Health Dept told him who reported him and why?

Yeah, that sounds believable :roll:
 

nota bene

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Food safety is important, and tamales can pose a threat. Every so often, the mother of the young man who mows my yard whips up a bunch (certainly nowhere near a hundred because tamales take time/effort to make), and I buy them. To die for tamales, but I've never seen her kitchen. Could be dog hair in those tamales, or maybe she let them sit out too long when she should've refrigerated them. Food safety/sales laws exist for a reason.
 

joG

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REGULATORS STRIKE AGAIN AND IT'S IN PRO-BUSINESS TEXAS.

"A few months back, Cruz decided to whip up some masa, steam up some corn husks and post on Nextdoor she was selling tamales.“It’s just so common. That’s why to me, I don’t understand why it’s such a big deal,” said Cruz.
But it was a big deal and carried $700 fine with the offense.
“When it hit me, I was like that is a lot of money,” said Cruz.
When she called the city, a clerk told her someone reported her for not having a food permit to sell the tamales."
Woman Fighting Fine For Selling Tamales Without Permit « CBS Dallas / Fort Worth

This isn't new. Where I worked in the U.S. a man would come around to our offices in the morning selling breakfast burritos. He sold to government offices, banks, and other large businesses downtown for months. Then one day, poof, he's gone.

I went to his hime to find out what happened. His wife had been getting up very early, making a few hundred burritos and wrapping them in tinfoil. He carried insulated containers around selling the burritos. Until a neighbor who didn't want to get up early and make burritos got jealous. The neighbor was on welfare and hated to see people, you know, working. So, the government put a stop to that.

But, perhaps it's necessary. The article explained the $700 fine.
"A director said a fine was issued and not a warning because tamales are considered “potentially hazardous food” due to the cooked corn and meat being used.
“What if somebody got sick from them? What if somebody could have died from them? And I completely understand those concerns,” said Cruz."

So, what if someone did get sick? Well, they could not buy any more tamales. Or, they could sue the woman. What if I'm invited to my boss's house for dinner and I get sick? My god, what is the government doing to protect me from that? What is I am a terrible cook and my family gets sick eating at home? Shouldn't the government do something about that? Shouldn't we have government standards for kitchens at home, where most people eat? Shouldn't cooks have to be licensed? How can they leave this vital area of our lives unregulated. I'm so afraid I need to hide in my closet.

This woman is not a victim of regulators to protect you and me. She's a victim because jealous neighbors turned her in to the regulators and the regulators do what regulators do. They stomp on people. They destroy opportunity. They attack families. They attack small business.

But, but, doesn't the government have to look out for me? Sure, call Lois Lerner if you need help.

That is a fine example of the government being more protective of the consumer than seems sensible. One would have to look at the statistics, but I suspect that it is more about protecting other restaurants from competition.
 

Patrickt

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So let me see if I understand this

Some guy shows up at your office selling burritos, and when he stops showing up you visit him at home because you know where "some guy who sells burritos" lives?

And then, when you talk to him, he says the Health Dept told him who reported him and why?

Yeah, that sounds believable :roll:

I don't suppose it would to you. I'm a police officer. His home was on my beat. I frequently went there on complaints from his deadbeat neighbors. When he came in selling burritos I already knw him and his deadbeat neighbors. But, I knew lots of people. I didn't limit myself to self-styled liberal elites.

But, I'm not surprised you didn't believe it. I would suggest you put me on ignore and save yourself some time.
 

sangha

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I don't suppose it would to you. I'm a police officer. His home was on my beat. I frequently went there on complaints from his deadbeat neighbors. When he came in selling burritos I already knw him and his deadbeat neighbors. But, I knew lots of people. I didn't limit myself to self-styled liberal elites.

But, I'm not surprised you didn't believe it. I would suggest you put me on ignore and save yourself some time.

Yeah, right. And the Health Dept told him who ratted him out and why :roll:

Where I worked in the U.S. a man would come around to our offices in the morning selling breakfast burritos.

are police officers in the habit of referring to their place of work as "our offices"?
 

Patrickt

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That is a fine example of the government being more protective of the consumer than seems sensible. One would have to look at the statistics, but I suspect that it is more about protecting other restaurants from competition.

That's a big part of it. When our small city got it's first hot dog cart it was the local restaurants who went berserk and demanded that he be run out of business. He was but he was open long enough that there was a movement in the opposite direction. The restaurants that had gone public getting rid of the pushcart saw their business drop.

When I first became a police officer I started reading the 3" thick set of city ordinances. Most people never read it but I read. I discovered it was illegal to walk down the street carrying a lunch pail. I couldn't imagine why. I got in touch with some old folks who'd been active in local politics and although it was before there time a couple pointed out that the mayor owned a cafe across the street from the construction site for the new courthouse. They laughed and said that he saw working men bringing their lunch so he got his cronies to pass the law so the workers would eat in his restaurant. It didn't work but once a law is passed it's a lot harder to get rid of it than it is to pass it in the first place.
 

Dittohead not!

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Actually, there are several good reasons for regulating food vendors. Among them, salmonella, e coli, and botulism.
 

Patrickt

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Yeah, right. And the Health Dept told him who ratted him out and why :roll:

are police officers in the habit of referring to their place of work as "our offices"?

This will be our last exchange since I do know how to put someone on ignore.
A. It wasn't just the health department. Oh, no, the nanny state goes much farther than that. There was the health department saying he had to have a commercial kitchen but it was also the tax people saying he hadn't got his business license. The regulators think these stories are funny so they don't mind at all telling you the story. Besides, all of his neighbors were on welfare and planned on staying on welfare. I'm sure you can understand that.

I also dealt with the family when they put up a screen to block the new of their yard from the deadbeat neighbors trailer. Actually the trailer belonged to the county welfare office. The neighbors called the building inspectors because the "screen" was attached to the "fence" and a fence could only be six feet high.

After that incident I tried to get a city ordinance passed to deal with harassment by legal process. The same neighbors made a totally bogus complaint of child abuse on their neighbor and the state law specifies total immunity, civil and criminal, if you report chid abuse even if it's bogus.

Where I worked was the City Hall. The police department was in City Hall. The police department had offices, the City Clerk had officers and the City Manager had offices. Some of the patrol officers referred to their patrol car as their "office". I'm sure work related terms are confusing to you.

Now, good-bye.
 

SDET

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So let me see if I understand this

Some guy shows up at your office selling burritos, and when he stops showing up you visit him at home because you know where "some guy who sells burritos" lives?

And then, when you talk to him, he says the Health Dept told him who reported him and why?

Yeah, that sounds believable :roll:

You don't understand networking and/or "watercooler" gossip. It's totally believable that he could have started asking around the office. Most likely though, he's telling it second or third hand. In other words, it's possible that the story was from hearing it second or third hand from someone who visited the food vendor.
 

joG

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That's a big part of it. When our small city got it's first hot dog cart it was the local restaurants who went berserk and demanded that he be run out of business. He was but he was open long enough that there was a movement in the opposite direction. The restaurants that had gone public getting rid of the pushcart saw their business drop.

When I first became a police officer I started reading the 3" thick set of city ordinances. Most people never read it but I read. I discovered it was illegal to walk down the street carrying a lunch pail. I couldn't imagine why. I got in touch with some old folks who'd been active in local politics and although it was before there time a couple pointed out that the mayor owned a cafe across the street from the construction site for the new courthouse. They laughed and said that he saw working men bringing their lunch so he got his cronies to pass the law so the workers would eat in his restaurant. It didn't work but once a law is passed it's a lot harder to get rid of it than it is to pass it in the first place.

City ordinance is one place to start, if we want more small businesses and jobs. It is not quite easy to do, because there are vested interests involved, the local regulation is often required by State or Fed laws, and the amount of work is staggering.
 

SDET

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Actually, there are several good reasons for regulating food vendors. Among them, salmonella, e coli, and botulism.


I hope the judge cuts her a break and reduces the fine to one dollar plus court costs.
 

SDET

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Yeah, right. And the Health Dept told him who ratted him out and why :roll:



are police officers in the habit of referring to their place of work as "our offices"?

If he was a reservist, it would make total sense that he also had a full time job. Also, if you read carefully, you will notice that he didn't specify a time line. Talking with the food vendor could have happened years later.
 

sangha

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This will be our last exchange since I do know how to put someone on ignore.
A. It wasn't just the health department. Oh, no, the nanny state goes much farther than that. There was the health department saying he had to have a commercial kitchen but it was also the tax people saying he hadn't got his business license. The regulators think these stories are funny so they don't mind at all telling you the story. Besides, all of his neighbors were on welfare and planned on staying on welfare. I'm sure you can understand that.

So you *are* claiming that the Health Dept told this burrito seller who complained and why. In fact, like Trump, you're doubling down on the lie and claiming that they do this all the time.

Where I worked was the City Hall. The police department was in City Hall. The police department had offices, the City Clerk had officers and the City Manager had offices. Some of the patrol officers referred to their patrol car as their "office". I'm sure work related terms are confusing to you.

I didn't ask you where you worked. I asked "are police officers in the habit of referring to their place of work as "our offices"?"

Now, good-bye.

I accept your surrender
 

sangha

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You don't understand networking and/or "watercooler" gossip. It's totally believable that he could have started asking around the office.

Asking what around the office? Where the guy lives?

How would anyone in the office know where the burrito seller lives?

Besides, the OP has given a completely different explanation

Most likely though, he's telling it second or third hand. In other words, it's possible that the story was from hearing it second or third hand from someone who visited the food vendor.

The OP stated it as first hand experience.

Why are you so invested in confirming a story when you can't possibly know if it's true?

If he was a reservist, it would make total sense that he also had a full time job. Also, if you read carefully, you will notice that he didn't specify a time line. Talking with the food vendor could have happened years later.

The OP has responded with answers that prove that your hypotheticals can not be true. But why are you so invested in "proving" this story is true that you're going so far as to invent these hypotheticals?

I'll take guess - your right wing beliefs have you so invested in the belief that regulation is evil, you will do whatever you can to support the credibility of any story that supports your belief, even if you have absolutely no idea if the story actually is true
 

SDET

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Asking what around the office? Where the guy lives?

How would anyone in the office know where the burrito seller lives?

Besides, the OP has given a completely different explanation



The OP stated it as first hand experience.

Why are you so invested in confirming a story when you can't possibly know if it's true?

It's a character trait called giving people the benefit of the doubt. You should try it sometime.
 

Patrickt

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Food safety is important, and tamales can pose a threat. Every so often, the mother of the young man who mows my yard whips up a bunch (certainly nowhere near a hundred because tamales take time/effort to make), and I buy them. To die for tamales, but I've never seen her kitchen. Could be dog hair in those tamales, or maybe she let them sit out too long when she should've refrigerated them. Food safety/sales laws exist for a reason.

Yes, they do exist for a reason. It gives jobs to millions of regulators. And, some regulations make sense.

Many, as has been pointed out, have a reason that involves preferential treatment for some. Landscapers in our town had to buy a $250 business license. Landscapers outside of town had to buy a $2,500 business license. Anyone care to guess why? I was called to a restaurant by the City Arborist. He enforced plant regulations. A local landscaper had called him and was standing there demanding action. The restaurant needed six spreading junipers and a little gravel along the sidewalk. The local landscapers gave estimates more than five times higher than a landscaper from a town 60 miles away. He would drive there and do the work. The City Arborist and the local landscaper squealed when I issued the landscaper a ticket and allowed him to finish planting the six junipers and spread the damned gravel. The local landscaper filed a complaint against me and the local restaurant sent a letter commending me.
 

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It's a character trait called giving people the benefit of the doubt. You should try it sometime.

No, you are doing much more than simply giving someone the benefit of the doubt. You're making up hypotheticals about a situation you know nothing about in order to make the story sound credible.
 

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Yes, they do exist for a reason. It gives jobs to millions of regulators. And, some regulations make sense.

Many, as has been pointed out, have a reason that involves preferential treatment for some. Landscapers in our town had to buy a $250 business license. Landscapers outside of town had to buy a $2,500 business license. Anyone care to guess why? I was called to a restaurant by the City Arborist. He enforced plant regulations. A local landscaper had called him and was standing there demanding action. The restaurant needed six spreading junipers and a little gravel along the sidewalk. The local landscapers gave estimates more than five times higher than a landscaper from a town 60 miles away. He would drive there and do the work. The City Arborist and the local landscaper squealed when I issued the landscaper a ticket and allowed him to finish planting the six junipers and spread the damned gravel. The local landscaper filed a complaint against me and the local restaurant sent a letter commending me.

It amounts to a system borrowed from Catholicism called indulgences. Make so many rules that no one could possible follow them all, making the only way to escape prosecution is to be connected to the "right" people.
 

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It amounts to a system borrowed from Catholicism called indulgences. Make so many rules that no one could possible follow them all, making the only way to escape prosecution is to be connected to the "right" people.

Yes, no one can follow the rules about selling ready-to-eat food

That's why there's so few businesses doing that :roll:
 

SDET

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Yes, no one can follow the rules about selling ready-to-eat food

That's why there's so few businesses doing that :roll:

Most eating establishments fail in the first three years. Second, how many of those play the "indulgences" system one way or another?
 

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City ordinance is one place to start, if we want more small businesses and jobs. It is not quite easy to do, because there are vested interests involved, the local regulation is often required by State or Fed laws, and the amount of work is staggering.

A. There is also a lot of graft involved. Years ago, a television station and a newspaper in Chicago bought a neighborhood bar. They put in a false wall to hold cameras and started remodeling for business. The videos and reported on the parade of regulators arriving with their hand out. Building inspectors, health inspectors, fire inspectors, OSHA inspectors, and I'm sure others.

My sister became a criminal because she needed some boards in her deck that had rotted replaced. She had a contractor come over and he gave her a reasonable estimate and then he told her what the permits would cost and the extra work they would require. It was outrageous. Then he said, "Can your husband paint?" "Not well but he can paint." There were good floodlights over the deck. "Fine, I can measure and cut the lumber in my shop. I'll show up here on Sunday and I'll hammer and your husband can stain till we get done. It should take about seven hours. That's what they did and my sister entered the society of government-made criminals.

When I had my house built I wanted no windows in my bedroom. I worked nights sometimes. I was told building regulations required a window be put in. But, once we got the certificate of occupancy, then I could have the window taken out. "Is that legal?" "Yes, but it isn't cheap." All hail regulation.
 

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Actually, there are several good reasons for regulating food vendors. Among them, salmonella, e coli, and botulism.

Those are all good reasons but not all that common. Even national food chains have to deal with unsafe food stuff. Chipotle greens made many sick.



Tamales are exponentially safer food. After steaming for 45-2 hours, the tamal is sterile and the interior contents are never touched until eaten.
 

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This is one of those areas in which there is too much regulation. You shouldn't have to get permission from the government to make food and sell it. You SHOULD have to disclose to your customers whether or not you have a health certificate so they can make an informed choice.
 
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