• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Witness account to the beatings of Israeli soldiers

mbig

onomatopoeic
DP Veteran
Joined
May 14, 2009
Messages
10,350
Reaction score
4,989
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
LOL - Sprinting further left of Guardian now?
Chicagoindymedia, CultureofResistance, and Fatima Mohammedi

http://backyardconservative.blogspot.com/2010/06/who-is-fatima-mohammadi.html
Tuesday, June 08, 2010
Who is Fatima Mohammadi?

She's been treated with incurious sympathy in a Tribune story yesterday. It was practically a Hamas PR piece, you know, the terrorist organization. More on this Iranian-born American from Steve Huntley (HT Pat Hickey):
The main organizer of the flotilla was Turkish-based Insani Yardim Vakfi, described as a humanitarian relief fund but which, like some other Muslim charities, has links to Islamist radicalism. .......A Chicago lawyer on the flotilla, Fatima Mohammadi, describes herself on her LinkedIn page as "national organizer" for Viva Palestina, founded by the rabid Israel-hater and Hamas sympathizer George Galloway of Britain, who is dedicated to delegitimizing the Jewish state.
If this is a peaceful group why doesn't it recognize Israel's right to exist? Fatima arrived back at Chicago's O'Hare airport the other day. Do we feel safer now? If this is a humanitarian group why did they object to their supplies reaching Gaza over land? More on Fatima. Al Jazeera has taken up her cause, naturally:
Fatima Mohammadi, another activist on board the Mavi Marmara that Israeli soldiers stormed last Monday in an attempt to stop a flotilla of aid ships from reaching Gaza, was accused of attempting to smuggle banned electronic componants into Gaza.
She told Al Jazeera through a spokesperson that she refused to dignify the accusation with a response.​
What were you doing Fatima? Are we talking iPods. How undignified. Maybe it was something to do with missiles. Via Gay and Right, Jerusalem Post with more:
Also on Sunday, the IDF released a list of at least five passengers aboard the Mavi Marmara who have ties to terrorist organizations.
They were named as Fatima Mohammadi, Kenneth O’Keefe, Hassan Ansey, Hussein Orush and Ahmed Omemun. It was unclear whether they were involved in the fight with naval commandos last week.
O’Keefe, according to the IDF, is a known American-British anti-Israel activist who wanted to enter Gaza to undergo training and help establish a commando unit for Hamas.
Another passenger, identified as an Iranian-American, allegedly tried to bring illegal electronic equipment into Gaza. A French national aboard the ship was identified by the IDF as a Hamas operative.​
Well, Fatima came home with a bandage and bruises. You know, 5 of the 6 ships were boarded with no incident for legitimate inspections under international law. Fatima's ship attacked. Gee, why is that.
Apparently she wasn't just standing around peaceably.

So who is Fatima Mohammadi? Such a victim. Crawling around the press deck. A real humanitarian, for sure. Fatima:
Mohammadi says the activists intended to challenge Israel's blockade of Gaza, but did not expect a violent confrontation.

"We thought maybe, maybe there would be again a like an interference or an intervention, not allowing us to pull into the port. Similar to what they did with the other, but without the boarding. We didn't expect it to be boarded. We honestly did not and that's why there was a panic when they first started to try to board, and again they came loaded with heavily, like heavy, heavily armed," Mohammadi said.

Oh really? Israelis heavily armed with paintball guns? You didn't expect to be boarded? What about all those knives on your team. Gas masks. Was beating the Israelis bloody with metal bars and stabbing them with knives just a little irrational exuberance? Like the chant.

Do you know what they chanted on that boat? Fatima knows, don't you Fatima.
[.......]
On Facebook (Link) she says her hometown is Tehran, yet she is an American citizen.
[.......]
 
Last edited:

alexa

DP Veteran
Joined
May 14, 2009
Messages
4,684
Reaction score
1,340
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
LOL
Chicagoindymedia,CultureofResistance and Fatima Mohammedi

Tuesday, June 08, 2010
Who is Fatima Mohammadi?
No source for your materia?. It has already been shown in other posts that Fatima Mohammadi and Kenneth O’Keefe are almost certainly wrongly accused of being terrorists. The rest I did not find.

Her account is her account. I already know for certain that Israel said it was going to fire on a previous boat The Arion and that an Australian Reporter on this flotilla says they were told there would be lethal consequences. Assuming that is also what the Mavi Marmara were told and assuming they believed it, which certainly seems to be the case from the smuggled out video, then it is understandable, if outside the flotilla brief, that some people would choose to fight back in any way they could.

From the footage on the video smuggled out it certainly appeared to me that Israel fired before boarding and before any violence. Unfortunately this smuggled out footage does not contain the scene on the deck where Israel troops are being beaten.

This is a witness account. Generally speaking witness accounts are taken into account.
 

mbig

onomatopoeic
DP Veteran
Joined
May 14, 2009
Messages
10,350
Reaction score
4,989
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
My material was sourced/linked. Because of trouble with the 'reply with quote' box I had to put my post up in pieces. Including indents, link, bolds, etc.

Her Facebook Page (as per my source's info): 'VivalaResistance'
I can't see most of it without being a member, but according to other sources, she describes herself as a "Rabble Rouser" on it as well.
Fatima Mohammadi | Facebook



bye bye thread :^)
 
Last edited:

alexa

DP Veteran
Joined
May 14, 2009
Messages
4,684
Reaction score
1,340
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Her account of the beatings of Israeli soldiers does I think minimise those beatings. However if the rest of what she said is true this is understandable.

A lot of what she says is much the same as other witnesses including witnesses on other boats have said they saw.
 

CrazyMcCool

Member
Joined
Jun 1, 2010
Messages
233
Reaction score
78
Location
Israel
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
Its interesting that a lawyer would even think that by saying this she even has a case...Where's the Hard Evidence?

I wonder if you can go into court like that...Just pointing fingers with witnesses but without actual hard evidence..
 

alexa

DP Veteran
Joined
May 14, 2009
Messages
4,684
Reaction score
1,340
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Its interesting that a lawyer would even think that by saying this she even has a case...Where's the Hard Evidence?

I wonder if you can go into court like that...Just pointing fingers with witnesses but without actual hard evidence..
She is simply speaking as a witness of events. Israel has taken all the evidence apart from a few photos and one video. All they can do is speak their truth as they know it.
 

Apocalypse

DEATH TO ANTARCTICA!!!
DP Veteran
Joined
May 14, 2009
Messages
19,641
Reaction score
6,191
Location
Israel
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
She is simply speaking as a witness of events. Israel has taken all the evidence apart from a few photos and one video. All they can do is speak their truth as they know it.
Or more likely speak against truth as they know it.

By the way, good job mbig at ripping the 'witness account' apart.
 

Apocalypse

DEATH TO ANTARCTICA!!!
DP Veteran
Joined
May 14, 2009
Messages
19,641
Reaction score
6,191
Location
Israel
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
Its interesting that a lawyer would even think that by saying this she even has a case...Where's the Hard Evidence?

I wonder if you can go into court like that...Just pointing fingers with witnesses but without actual hard evidence..
No, no you can't, especially when you have huge and obvious motivations to lie.
She has no case.
 

Gardener

free market communist
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 5, 2005
Messages
26,661
Reaction score
15,927
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
No, no you can't, especially when you have huge and obvious motivations to lie.
She has no case.
We should also interview some of the Landover Baptist folks to hear of their first hand accounts of their "protests", or perhaps some retired grand wizards to provide us with testimony regarding their lynchi....oops, I meant to say kind administrations to the personal needs of their African American bretherin. People believe them, too, right?


Well, at least if they share the same views.........
 

alexa

DP Veteran
Joined
May 14, 2009
Messages
4,684
Reaction score
1,340
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Or more likely speak against truth as they know it.

By the way, good job mbig at ripping the 'witness account' apart.
What on earth makes you think he did that.
Fatima Mohammadi, an American lawyer from Chicago, and Ken O’Keefe, a former American marine, were both on a list of “Active Terror Operatives,” posted on the official blog of the Israel Defense Forces on Sunday. The I.D.F. statement, which named five passengers on board the Mavi Marmara “known to be involved in terrorist activity,” included factual errors about both Ms. Mohammadi and Mr. O’Keefe.

The Israeli statement misspelled Ms. Mohammadi’s first and last names, calling her “Fatimah Mahmadi”; said she is “an active member of the organization ‘Viva Palestine’ ” — she is a former employee of Viva Palestina; and called her “a United States resident of Iranian origin.” She is an American citizen who was born in Tehran in 1979 and moved — with her American mother and Iranian father — to Boise, Idaho, after the Iranian revolution that year.
Two Activists Describe Raid and Deny Israeli Claim They Are ‘Terrorist Operatives’ - The Lede Blog - NYTimes.com

Israel has deliberately stopped Journalists from having their material which they took of this attack, by all accounts resulting in the serious injury or death of at least one.

She has also already had to backfire on deliberately pretending that the crew of the MM had made antisemetic comments and her list of terrorists seems highly suspect.

She also has only released material which make the Flotilla passengers appear in a bad light and has not yet released video of her shooting of passengers multiple times at close range - one apparently at point blank range.

No country could expect anyone to believe them after this lot.
 

CrazyMcCool

Member
Joined
Jun 1, 2010
Messages
233
Reaction score
78
Location
Israel
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
No, no you can't, especially when you have huge and obvious motivations to lie.
She has no case.
Ah intresting, you would think a lawyer would of thought of that.

and Alexa, unless you plug her into a truth thingy mabob ( which would prob fail anyway) and ask her to say what happend. My point being, that witness reports can only be taken serouisly when you also take the other side's witness reports aswell.

Other wise you are using a double standared. I have no way, and nither do you, to prove that they are infact speaking the truth. And this is not an attack or anything :)

I am just saying. That both parties have the issue of getting evidence.

Not that it matters. Even if Israel presented an HD bluray unedited unrated and uncut disk out to every single person on earth showing ( in this case lets say Israel is 100% right just for the sake of the example) how Israel did everything lawfully and rightfully. Israel woud still be bashed and blamed. Just sayin :))

EDIT Alexa when you have a murder case, do they let all the media into the scene of the crime and junk? nope
they keep it as clean as they can only certin people allowed to enter. That way no evidence is tainted or misplaced by another person.
Same goes here. When you got everyone poking the body with a stick, nothing can be taken from the body as evidence or info on wtf happend.
 
Last edited:

alexa

DP Veteran
Joined
May 14, 2009
Messages
4,684
Reaction score
1,340
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
and Alexa, unless you plug her into a truth thingy mabob ( which would prob fail anyway) and ask her to say what happend. My point being, that witness reports can only be taken serouisly when you also take the other side's witness reports aswell.

Other wise you are using a double standared. I have no way, and nither do you, to prove that they are infact speaking the truth. And this is not an attack or anything :)

I am just saying. That both parties have the issue of getting evidence.
No, much as you would like that to be the case it is not. Apart from what she says about the incident concerning the fighting, what she says has been reported repeatedly by people who were both on that boat and on others.

The video presented by Lara Lee appears to have been made before the incident with activists and soldiers and from that video which appears to show the beginning it certainly looked to me like the Israeli soldiers were firing before they went on.

Further Israels confiscation of all Journalist video and pictures makes Israel appear guilty and wanting to hide the evidence.

I have made other points in a reply to Apoc, no doubt while you were writing your reply.

Not that it matters. Even if Israel presented an HD bluray unedited unrated and uncut disk out to every single person on earth showing ( in this case lets say Israel is 100% right just for the sake of the example) how Israel did everything lawfully and rightfully. Israel woud still be bashed and blamed. Just sayin :))
Crazy Mr Cool, this is just calling, you are saying it because I am black, reasons have been given. We would not accept any of this sort of nonsense in the UK, I can tell you.
 

CrazyMcCool

Member
Joined
Jun 1, 2010
Messages
233
Reaction score
78
Location
Israel
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
Alexa I did not understand your last statement..
I am saying that Most media and people on earth do not care for the evidence, seeing as they jumped on Israel well before the facts evidence or even news of what happned came to them. They jumped on Israel right ahead. Thats my point. The evidence would not even matter seeing as everyone just says " Its Israel's fault" and then go and have it forgoten.
 

Apocalypse

DEATH TO ANTARCTICA!!!
DP Veteran
Joined
May 14, 2009
Messages
19,641
Reaction score
6,191
Location
Israel
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
What on earth makes you think he did that.

Two Activists Describe Raid and Deny Israeli Claim They Are ‘Terrorist Operatives’ - The Lede Blog - NYTimes.com

Israel has deliberately stopped Journalists from having their material which they took of this attack, by all accounts resulting in the serious injury or death of at least one.

She has also already had to backfire on deliberately pretending that the crew of the MM had made antisemetic comments and her list of terrorists seems highly suspect.

She also has only released material which make the Flotilla passengers appear in a bad light and has not yet released video of her shooting of passengers multiple times at close range - one apparently at point blank range.

No country could expect anyone to believe them after this lot.
There is more than enough evidence released, by both the activists and the IDF, for every rational living being to reject the lies of those 'peaceful activists'.
They are seen attacking soldiers while not being shot at, they are seen stabbing them, they are seen attacking the zodiac boats before they've even reached the ship, they are seen attacking the helicopter before it has even dropped the rope, they are heard chanting anti-Semitic and anti-Western remarks on the audio recording, the captains of the ship themselves have admitted, in accordance with another footage that documents it, that some of the activists were getting themselves ready for a fight before any contact with the IDF soldiers.
They are heard chanting "allah hu'akbar" calls in the video while attacking the zodiacs, they have stated that no soldier was even attacked and that turned out to be a lie, they have stated that they have no ties with terrorists and that turned out to be a lie as well, they have stated that they didn't shoot anyone and that was proven to be a lie as well, they have stated that they have reacted in self-defense and that has proven to be a lie as well.

No rational living being can be expected to believe any of those activist's words after that, not when so many of them are being completely neglected by pure facts and evidence, such as videos and pictures.
 
Last edited:

donsutherland1

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 17, 2007
Messages
11,691
Reaction score
9,981
Location
New York
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
IMO, Ms. Mohammadi is the kind of witness who would ordinarily be subjected to an intense cross-examination were she called before a court. It would be critical to determine whether she is recounting events that she witnessed as they unfolded or painting a scenario that fits a larger objective associated with her activism. In addition, sometimes the trauma of events can blur memories. It will be interesting to see if she is willing to go to Israel to cooperate with the investigation into the matter. My guess is that she will not be willing to cooperate with the investigation.
 

Gardener

free market communist
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 5, 2005
Messages
26,661
Reaction score
15,927
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
No rational living being can be expected to believe any of those activist's words after that, not when so many of them are being completely neglected by pure facts and evidence, such as videos and pictures.
No, certainly not.

THe problem is the paucity of rational people available both here and in the bigger world who are even capable of noticing.
 

alexa

DP Veteran
Joined
May 14, 2009
Messages
4,684
Reaction score
1,340
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Alexa I did not understand your last statement..
I am saying that Most media and people on earth do not care for the evidence, seeing as they jumped on Israel well before the facts evidence or even news of what happned came to them. They jumped on Israel right ahead. Thats my point. The evidence would not even matter seeing as everyone just says " Its Israel's fault" and then go and have it forgoten.
They jumped on the story that a humanitarian flotila had been attacked by Israel on the high seas resulting in deaths. Whatever country that was they would have jumped on the story believing this should never have happened.

I didn't see the headlines, I learned of it first here, but if it had been the US Navy the British Navy, the Russian Navy or any other navy the response would have been horror that such a situation could have happened.

Remember News is about being sensational and getting money - particularly getting the story out first.;)
 

Apocalypse

DEATH TO ANTARCTICA!!!
DP Veteran
Joined
May 14, 2009
Messages
19,641
Reaction score
6,191
Location
Israel
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
They jumped on the story that a humanitarian flotila had been attacked by Israel on the high seas resulting in deaths. Whatever country that was they would have jumped on the story believing this should never have happened.
I think that what CrazyMcCool is saying is that Israel was condemned before any evidence or facts were even released, and how the media at that time has painted it as if Israel is at fault.
 

alexa

DP Veteran
Joined
May 14, 2009
Messages
4,684
Reaction score
1,340
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
IMO, Ms. Mohammadi is the kind of witness who would ordinarily be subjected to an intense cross-examination were she called before a court. It would be critical to determine whether she is recounting events that she witnessed as they unfolded or painting a scenario that fits a larger objective associated with her activism. In addition, sometimes the trauma of events can blur memories. It will be interesting to see if she is willing to go to Israel to cooperate with the investigation into the matter. My guess is that she will not be willing to cooperate with the investigation.
Don, just as in the case where Israel is saying things and they are being taken at face value, certainly it cannot be taken that what she says is correct. You are also correct that trauma and eye witness accounts are not always that trustworthy. It is however a great pity that Israel confiscated all the Journalist's equipment and footage as that might have shown what happened.

What she says, apart from minimisng the force of the attack on the soldiers does sound plausible given what I have managed to read see and put together.

My guess is that this was a ghastly mistake and that possibly the fault was in the planning. As that is not going to be looked into.....
 

Demon of Light

Bohemian Revolutionary
DP Veteran
Joined
May 7, 2010
Messages
5,095
Reaction score
1,544
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
IMO, Ms. Mohammadi is the kind of witness who would ordinarily be subjected to an intense cross-examination were she called before a court. It would be critical to determine whether she is recounting events that she witnessed as they unfolded or painting a scenario that fits a larger objective associated with her activism. In addition, sometimes the trauma of events can blur memories. It will be interesting to see if she is willing to go to Israel to cooperate with the investigation into the matter. My guess is that she will not be willing to cooperate with the investigation.
What of Israel? Can we honestly trust a thing coming from Israel's government? They have every reason to lie and conceal evidence and no reason to allow a thorough and fair investigation. I am more inclined to trust an activist than any government, though I would rather have an independent account.
 

Apocalypse

DEATH TO ANTARCTICA!!!
DP Veteran
Joined
May 14, 2009
Messages
19,641
Reaction score
6,191
Location
Israel
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
What of Israel? Can we honestly trust a thing coming from Israel's government? They have every reason to lie and conceal evidence and no reason to allow a thorough and fair investigation. I am more inclined to trust an activist than any government, though I would rather have an independent account.
I'd prefer you to trust the Israeli government on this just as you trust the British government on Iraq/Afghanistan.

But above all, we must trust the evidence.
 

alexa

DP Veteran
Joined
May 14, 2009
Messages
4,684
Reaction score
1,340
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
I'd prefer you to trust the Israeli government on this just as you trust the British government on Iraq/Afghanistan.

But above all, we must trust the evidence.
The British Public don't trust the British Government on Iraq so that is a bit of a lame one. That is why we are having an inquiry.

However as the main player in both those was the US, if you were being genuine that is the country you would be suggesting people trust. I don't think you'll find many. But all that is off topic.
 

Apocalypse

DEATH TO ANTARCTICA!!!
DP Veteran
Joined
May 14, 2009
Messages
19,641
Reaction score
6,191
Location
Israel
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
The British Public don't trust the British Government on Iraq so that is a bit of a lame one. That is why we are having an inquiry.
Israel has an inquiry as well, but that's not the point.
 

alexa

DP Veteran
Joined
May 14, 2009
Messages
4,684
Reaction score
1,340
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Israel has an inquiry as well, but that's not the point.
Israel is having an inquiry of this nature
The truth that Netanyahu wishes to bring out involves the identity of the flotilla's organizers, its sources of funding and the knives and rods that were brought aboard. He does not intend to probe the decision-making process that preceded the takeover of the ship and the shortcomings that were uncovered.
The public has a right to know - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News

The inquiry goes with the 'truth' already being known and so no need for an inquiry.

In addition one of the two 'independent' observors has been found to have a bias having joined an organisation called 'Friends of Israel' which it appears was set up in response to the very thing the inquiry is looking into plus things I have mentioned in post 11 and 13.

These are the reasons people do not have trust or expect much from the Israel inquiry.
 
Top Bottom