Without the PERCEPTION of Being Shot, A Person Does Not Fall or Stop

[Jerry]

With the note that this is not true when the shot is in heart, brain or pelvis and it breaks (can't stand up then).

Though many may know of this, some may not: it is the seminal examination of "Stopping Power" by the FBI in 1987, but still very true and relevant. It does not claim that ballistic, caliber etc., have nothing to do with Stopping Power. But it finds Stopping Power is ultimately due to a psychological phenomenon of the person shot: without their perception of being shot they will not fall or stop. Indeed, as is known, people who have NOT been shot due to a miss, sometimes fall due to the mistaken perception they have been hit.

http://www.firearmstactical.com/pdf/fbi-hwfe.pdf
....Psychological factors are probably the most important relative to achieving rapid incapacitation from a gunshot wound to the torso. Awareness of the injury (often delayed by the suppression of pain); fear of injury, death, blood, or pain; intimidation by the weapon or the act of being shot; preconceived notions of what people do when they are shot; or the simple desire to quit can all lead to rapid incapacitation even from minor wounds. However, psychological factors are also the primary cause of incapacitation failures....

See also:

• Doctor Talks About Gunshot Wounds
• FBI Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness - FirearmsTactical.com
• http://www.thegunzone.com/quantico-wounding.html

 

[Northern Light]

I remember one time my son fell on his back outside and scraped it up. There was blood everywhere. He came home and ran inside, and the backs of his shoulders had dried blood on them. It wasn't until I pointed it out that he started crying and screaming.

 

[Surtr]

Good to know.

 

[Morrigi]

Yeah, I am remarkably unfazed by blood and one incident where I knocked my two front teeth out (blood everywhere, of course) really didn't bother me aside from having to get my teeth fixed. But before I was able to get to the dentist I was laughing with my friends about the whole thing while attempting not to bleed everywhere.

 

[CRUE CAB]

Thats why you always ready yourself for a follow up shot. I carry a .45 or a .38HP +P. You will know you been hit.

 

[Morrigi]

It also really depends on if you hit a vital area. With a large enough drop in blood pressure you're going down regardless.

 

[Fisher]

Fallouja Insurgents Fought Under Influence of Drugs, Marines Say - Los Angeles Times

......

Officers in Iraq say soldiers and Marines found similar evidence of drug use among Shiite Muslim militiamen during April and August uprisings in Najaf.

The conduct of many of the insurgents during the fighting in Fallouja suggested that they had ingested drugs that enabled them to continue fighting even after being severely wounded, Marines and Navy medical corpsmen say.

"One guy described it as like watching the 'Night of the Living Dead,' " corpsman Peter Melady said. "People who should have been dead were still alive."

..........

 

[Morrigi]

Need to move back to 7.62

 

[TurtleDude]

Need to move back to 7.62

actually the tissue damage of the original M193 55 grain bullet shot out of the 1X12 barrel (original M16) was more extensive than the 762 NATO due to the yaw (destabilized bullet's movement in flew) also the 270 rounds that was the normal compliment for a M16 armed infantryman was far more lethal than the 6-8 magazines of 20 rounds of 762 NATO that was normally issued

 

[CRUE CAB]

Need to move back to 7.62

Need to not engage in the bullsheet wars.

 

[Goshin]

With handgun rounds, it is mostly psychological, unless you hit something very vital of course.

 

[TurtleDude]

With handgun rounds, it is mostly psychological, unless you hit something very vital of course.

the guy I shot was on PCP etc. He woke up in the hospital and denied being shot

The major damage came from the fact it was a contact hit the blast of hot gas concentrated on the lower abdominal region caused massive disruption of intestines etc

 

[CRUE CAB]

With handgun rounds, it is mostly psychological, unless you hit something very vital of course.

I think there would be a big difference between a .22 and a .357.

 

[LaMidRighter]

actually the tissue damage of the original M193 55 grain bullet shot out of the 1X12 barrel (original M16) was more extensive than the 762 NATO due to the yaw (destabilized bullet's movement in flew) also the 270 rounds that was the normal compliment for a M16 armed infantryman was far more lethal than the 6-8 magazines of 20 rounds of 762 NATO that was normally issued

Yep, nothing more damaging than "tumblers", it's the difference between getting "drilled" at a high speed or knifed and twisted, less clean wound pattern, more damaged area upon being hit.

 

[LaMidRighter]

With handgun rounds, it is mostly psychological, unless you hit something very vital of course.

Energy transfer vs. wound pattern. A .22 is more likely to cause a vital organ hit from an internal ricochet, however a larger caliber will expend a lot of energy through the contact point, hitting a spot like center mass with a large caliber such as the chest cavity sends a concussion wave through liquids(like blood) and can destabalize critical organ systems. Then again, there is a strong psychological element as well.

 

[LaMidRighter]

I think there would be a big difference between a .22 and a .357.

The .357 will cause a massive penetration wound, but expend it's energy quickly upon contact, mass/weight to velocity. The .22 will bounce around after hitting bone, very little mass to velocity. It's kind of like a sports car versus a semi and what will happen upon impact.

 

[Goshin]

I think there would be a big difference between a .22 and a .357.

If you hit the heart, spine, brain, or a major artery, yes.


Otherwise the main diff is that the .22 round often fails to penetrate the inner body cavity. When it does, it tends to bounce around and create a long confusing wound channel that is difficult to treat... but 75% of the time it fails to penetrate deep enough, when fired out of a handgun-length barrel.

.357 (or 9mm or .45) makes a bigger hole and more sure and certain deep penetration.... but no handgun round literally knocks anyone down; if it did the recoil would knock the shooter down too.

 

[joko104]

The .357 will cause a massive penetration wound, but expend it's energy quickly upon contact, mass/weight to velocity. The .22 will bounce around after hitting bone, very little mass to velocity. It's kind of like a sports car versus a semi and what will happen upon impact.

A .22 will follow the path of least resistance - which happens to be vital organs. However, there is a good chance a person shot with a .22 won't even know it. Might die a quarter hour later, but isn't fazed by the shot.

 

[joko104]

From what I read of history, the reason for the 45acp to replace the 38sp, was the Spanish-American war where they found that in jungle fighting that while a 38 would kill the attacker - that death might come after our soldier was hacked up with a machete.

 

[LaMidRighter]

A .22 will follow the path of least resistance - which happens to be vital organs. However, there is a good chance a person shot with a .22 won't even know it. Might die a quarter hour later, but isn't fazed by the shot.

Yep, all dependent upon proximity to the shot, adrenaline, etc.