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Without God, there are no inalienable rights

BayToBay

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If God is removed from the minds of the People, then the protection of inalienable rights is also removed. For then government determines what your rights are.

Neither God nor the King grant us rights. Rights are limits we the people have placed on government. The Magna Carta was not delivered to Moses and it was not given to us at the whim of the King. It was forced upon the King by the will of the people.
 

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Neither God nor the King grant us rights. Rights are limits we the people have placed on government. The Magna Carta was not delivered to Moses and it was not given to us at the whim of the King. It was forced upon the King by the will of the people.

Please provide your sources for this.
 

BayToBay

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Please provide your sources for this.

Any history book. Our legal heritage of rights started with the Charter of Liberties and the Magna Carta. In both cases citizens made the King grant rights and agree to limits on state power.
Madison was not divinely inspired. We continued that hertigae with citizens declaring their independence then placing limits on the state and securing rights.
 
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If God is removed from the minds of the People, then the protection of inalienable rights is also removed. For then government determines what your rights are.

You are completely wrong. Whether religious or irreligious, a society is always controlled by what the Government dictates. For all practical purposes, there is no more God than the Government on Earth. Your rights are nothing and mean nothing, the Government can take them away, whether self-proclaimed religious or not. Stop dreaming about liberties that never really existed.


 
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presluc

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Иосиф Сталин;1059660099 said:
You are completely wrong. Whether religious or irreligious, a society is always controlled by what the Government dictates. For all practical purposes, there is no more God than the Government on Earth. Your rights are nothing and mean nothing, the Government can take them away, whether self-proclaimed religious or not. Stop dreaming about liberties that never really existed.



Perhaps I am too old, , for not only do I know history in more than one case I saw it change.

These liberties that never existed as you say have been used on more than one occasion

Segregation was the law in te 1950's
In the 1960's I marched with other people to change that.
Viet Nam war even after being drafted to go to Viet Nam
I came back to march and protest with others against an unessary war we changed that
Womens right to be equal in the work place others marched to change that
NEED I GO ON.:peace

For if it is ineed as you say liberties never existed all these would still be in place in America.
 

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Infringing on rights does not mean they don't exist. If slavery is legal worldwide, and I enslave you, you still have the right to not be a slave. Rights are things that one should have, and privileges are things that one does have.

Rights do exist, but in a more abstract term. People should be treated better than what they are now, but saying that every human has some rights that were contrived 150 years ago doesn't add up to anything. If I were enslaved under the lash of your authority and I say, " I have the right to not be a slave," that doesn't mean anything does it? why? Because I'll still be a slave to your will no matter what words I use. With the concept of intrinsic value, it is the environment in which you are governed by that affects the way you and everybody else behaves.
 
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If God is removed from the minds of the People, then the protection of inalienable rights is also removed. For then government determines what your rights are.

True very true.....It's then call Socialism or Communism control.

In a society were the majority of people are lazy, dependant and ignorant. Those form of Goverments rule supream.

Our todays Liberals are the true comeing of that concept.

Plain Stupidity.
 
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presluc

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true very true.....it's then call socialism or communism control.

In a society were the majority of people are lazy, dependant and ignorant. Those form of goverments rule supream.

Our todays liberals are the true comeing of that concept.

Communism or socialism would never work in america

as far as todays liberals the true coming of that concept.

What of the tea party, or should i say republicans on acid
or the libertarian republicans in cognito
they're not fooling anybody they are after the independent vote
now that's plain stupidity.

plain stupidity
 

chino

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True very true.....It's then call Socialism or Communism control.

In a society were the majority of people are lazy, dependant and ignorant. Those form of Goverments rule supream.

Our todays Liberals are the true comeing of that concept.

Plain Stupidity.

That shouldn't all be aloud to be in the same post.
 

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Strange that you think inalienable rights come from God when the Constitution is a 100 percent secular document. There's no mention of God or any quote from the Bible. There is a mention of freedom of religion, but it's as a right, and religion is not endorsed.

Strange that you think your rights come from the Constitution.
 

presluc

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Strange that you think your rights come from the Constitution.

Although I have always supported the bridge between Church and State and the freedom of religion.
Politics has no place in religion and religion definatly has no place in politics.

However perhaps the poster is referring to inalienable rights by God as a human.
Of course not everybody has to follow this path, just as not everybody has to follow the path of athiesim.
 

petaluna

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Although I have always supported the bridge between Church and State and the freedom of religion.
Politics has no place in religion and religion definatly has no place in politics.

However perhaps the poster is referring to inalienable rights by God as a human.
Of course not everybody has to follow this path, just as not everybody has to follow the path of athiesim.
The declaration speaks of inalienable rights.....and mentions them as proceeding from nature and nature's God........but nature promises nothing.....there is no evidence that anything, whether organic and alive, or inorganic and not alive has more rights than happenstance provide. Humans may decide and unite to provide some arbitrary 'rights' but there is no quarantee and no basis to believe that nature or God will cooperate in mans desire to provide them or assume them.
 

presluc

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The declaration speaks of inalienable rights.....and mentions them as proceeding from nature and nature's God........but nature promises nothing.....there is no evidence that anything, whether organic and alive, or inorganic and not alive has more rights than happenstance provide. Humans may decide and unite to provide some arbitrary 'rights' but there is no quarantee and no basis to believe that nature or God will cooperate in mans desire to provide them or assume them.

Ah, an athiest no doubt, that is your right.
You are overlooking the individual right to believe as one chooses.

So far the proof that God exist or does not exist is not known .
However to choose to believe God exist that is an individual right.

On the flip side the Big Bang theory if it did actually happened or did not actually happen is not known.

However, to choose to believe the Big Bang started everything that is an individual right.:peace
 

obvious Child

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Ah, an athiest no doubt, that is your right.

No, not really. You could take that privilege away by lobotomizing her...which is merely an application of force that if occurred she would not have sufficient force to stop. Which gets back to her original point

You are overlooking the individual right to believe as one chooses.

See above. There are no such things as rights. Only privileges we back with the threat of force.
 

petaluna

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Ah, an athiest no doubt, that is your right.
You are overlooking the individual right to believe as one chooses.

So far the proof that God exist or does not exist is not known .
However to choose to believe God exist that is an individual right.

On the flip side the Big Bang theory if it did actually happened or did not actually happen is not known.

However, to choose to believe the Big Bang started everything that is an individual right.:peace
Actually I believe in the Christian God, but I still don't think He promises us rights that come simply from being born....He gives us commandments to obey, that IF they are obeyed will make living much more comfortable for all......but in this life....He pretty much tells us that we are going to have a tough time.
 

presluc

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No, not really. You could take that privilege away by lobotomizing her...which is merely an application of force that if occurred she would not have sufficient force to stop. Which gets back to her original point



See above. There are no such things as rights. Only privileges we back with the threat of force.

Ah another post of complicated veiws .
"No such thing as rights, Only privledges we back with the threat of force."
Your words yes?

I kinda like my lifestyle more on the simple side

I suppose every human now has to back up his priviledge to think?

Have you not heard the phrase "I THINK THEREFORE I AM"
No human can stop another human from thinking unless with brain washing.
Thinking is a right not a priviledge, privledges are inforced by law not human thought.
It wasn't "I have the priviledge to think and I can back it up"

You would have the human race all having priviledges to think?
Well, what of human rights are they to be tossed aside with whatever right you use as a human..
Such as the right to debate? lol:peace
 

presluc

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Actually I believe in the Christian God, but I still don't think He promises us rights that come simply from being born....He gives us commandments to obey, that IF they are obeyed will make living much more comfortable for all......but in this life....He pretty much tells us that we are going to have a tough time.

My apologies,a mistake by this humble posters not the first probably not the last.

I have faith in God as well, I have posted this in previous post.
However the path Ichoose to take may differ from others who believe in God.
I ask nobody to take the same path I do and respect whatever path others may take, as long as they respect mine.:peace
 

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Although I have always supported the bridge between Church and State and the freedom of religion.
Politics has no place in religion and religion definatly has no place in politics.

However perhaps the poster is referring to inalienable rights by God as a human.
Of course not everybody has to follow this path, just as not everybody has to follow the path of athiesim.
You still don't seem to understand the constitution, or where rights come from.
 

VanceMack

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Ah, an athiest no doubt, that is your right.
You are overlooking the individual right to believe as one chooses.

So far the proof that God exist or does not exist is not known .
However to choose to believe God exist that is an individual right.

On the flip side the Big Bang theory if it did actually happened or did not actually happen is not known.

However, to choose to believe the Big Bang started everything that is an individual right.:peace
I am very much not an athiest...yet I believe the notion of 'God given rights' to be a pure fairy tale. All you have to do is pick up a paper and a reasoned and rational person would be forced to realize that God for whatever motivation, does not intercede nor enforce any notion of 'rights'. They simply dont exist. 'Rights' are nothing more than thought constructs...ideals.
 

OscarB63

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It is quite simple, we give them to ourselves, we respect them and protect them.

without a higher power, call it God or whatever you want, to endow them. there can be no such thing as "inalienable rights". without that higher power, all "rights" are decided upon by society. they are enforced by laws that are decided by society. if society should change it's mind then rights could be changed or removed.
 

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without a higher power, call it God or whatever you want, to endow them. there can be no such thing as "inalienable rights".
Exactly. Inalienable is a figment of imagination.

without that higher power, all "rights" are decided upon by society.
Or more precisely by those who have the power in any societry.

they are enforced by laws that are decided by society. if society should change it's mind then rights could be changed or removed.
Quite so.
 

presluc

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You still don't seem to understand the constitution, or where rights come from.

Long before the constitution was formed humans were thinking, long before America was discovered humans were thinking.

Some may stop a priviledge but no one can not stop a human thought.:peace
 

presluc

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I am very much not an athiest...yet I believe the notion of 'God given rights' to be a pure fairy tale. All you have to do is pick up a paper and a reasoned and rational person would be forced to realize that God for whatever motivation, does not intercede nor enforce any notion of 'rights'. They simply dont exist. 'Rights' are nothing more than thought constructs...ideals.

What is the differance between saying the right to think or thought constructs or ideas?
Where these thought constructs and ideas come from or how they began is still based on theory, conjector, and faith.
Which is right has yet to be proven with hardcore evidence.:peace
 

presluc

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without a higher power, call it God or whatever you want, to endow them. there can be no such thing as "inalienable rights". without that higher power, all "rights" are decided upon by society. they are enforced by laws that are decided by society. if society should change it's mind then rights could be changed or removed.

I very much doubt that the right to think will ever be taken away , no matter what society decides.:peace
 
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