With whom would you rather serve?

[aps]

'Convicted Criminal' sounds a bit vague to me. I would not like to rule someone out of service on the basis of reasonably low level crime, and if a kid falls in with gangs, serves a few years and then gets released I'd rather the military take him on and set him on a better path than allow him to return to his previous life. On the flip side if PFC Childmolester were to be buddied up with me I'd in all likelihood put a few rounds in him during an engagement and report it as an insurgent sniper. Really does depend on what the crime was, certainly records should be declared.

[Edit: There should really be a poll option for 'both'.]

But gay people don't commit crimes.




Good point.

 

[Goobieman]

I think he made a mistake when he tried to get Congressional support, the Republican congress did not want this change, and it was an issue where once he brought it to the table he couldn't take it back. Not without losing a lot go future bargaining power. Plus the General objected to his plan.

In the end, he is most responsible party yes. But some of the responsibility must be shared with the Congress and the Generals. In politics it seems you rarely act with autonomy.

This policy is pursuant to federal law, passed in 1993.
The Dems held congress in 1993.
The GOP could not have stopped anything the Dems wanted to do with this, and so you can't blame the GOP for this at all.

 

[Goobieman]

Goobie, why can't you have a discussion without being a jerk?

Now be honest, aps -- if GWB had put this policy in place in 2001, wouldn't you be harping on him and his alliegence to the Christian fundamentalists?

Never mind the fact that GWB would have -loosened- the policy in place when he took office.

I don't think that someone's sexuality should have any impact on whether they are allowed to serve their country

It isnt. Homosexuals arent barred from serving.

They are barred from certain activities, just like all servicemen are -- when you join the military, you agree to abide by military regs, many of which curtail rights you have in civilian life. You -volunteer- to join the military, and by doing so, you -volunteer- to give up certain things.

 

[Calm2Chaos]

Here is a news flash...if you played any kind of sports and weren't one of the bird chested boys who ran home afterward to shower, you have probably already showered with homos. If you have a gym membership and shower there, you probably have washed your wee-wee right beside a 'mo there too. The whole separate shower requirement is purely ludicrous...most queers are just as eager to finish their showers and get back into clothes in those situations as any other guy. When you are in the shower with a gay guy, you are probably being checked out with much less scrutiny than you are when you are outside mowing your lawn shirtless and one happens by.

Sorry the answer is no. IF you are homosexual/Lesbian then a man/woman is what turns you on. I am not going to get into specifics or morals or any of that crap. This is the plain fact of how it is. If men didn't turn you on then you wouldn't be gay. So for the same reason they seperate mens and womans showers and barracks in ANY institution, they should seperate gay from straight if in the military. And if your going to tell me that a gay man in that settings isn't going to see a man he finds attractive then your completely lying IMO. If your telling me that it is not a problem then why are not all showers and barracks CO-ED in the military?

The difference of me cutting the lawn and showering I would think are obvious. And I think the comparison is absurd. Are you honestly going to tell me there isn't a single gay man that might find the oppurtunity to be around many other young men naked a good thing.... Sorry that is what is actually ludicrus. Let me shower with the woman. I promise I won't look, leer, stare, fantasize, desire, yern, have feelings for, want, be attracted to etc etc... YA .. you go ahead and believe that all you want.

By the way I played several sportson and off through high school. Football, Hockey, and baseball.

 

[Thinker]

Sorry the answer is no. IF you are homosexual/Lesbian then a man/woman is what turns you on. I am not going to get into specifics or morals or any of that crap. This is the plain fact of how it is. If men didn't turn you on then you wouldn't be gay. So for the same reason they seperate mens and womans showers and barracks in ANY institution, they should seperate gay from straight if in the military. And if your going to tell me that a gay man in that settings isn't going to see a man he finds attractive then your completely lying IMO. If your telling me that it is not a problem then why are not all showers and barracks CO-ED in the military?

You know, the US military must be made up of wimps if what you say is true
(and I don't believe that). Many other countries have gay people serving
openly and there have been no problems.

As to showering with people, it's not uncommon in Europe to have communal
facilities: showers, saunas, and most people are adult enough to cope with it.
Ever been to a nude beach? Guess what. There will be gay people there too.

 

[Gardener]

The difference of me cutting the lawn and showering I would think are obvious. .

Don't know about you, but when I mow the lawn, I work up quite the manly sweat. Before I know it, my tight, white tee is clinging to my taught, tawny flesh, my boyish locks become tousled, little rivulets form on my brow and then rush past my chisled cheeks then drip upon by muscular shoulders where they continue to run down past my washboard abs before disappearing below my tight speedos.

It's really a lot like showering if it's done right.

 

[cherokee]

I haven’t read all the posts and to be honest I'm just too damn lazy to do so today..

What was the criminal charged with?
Because if he's a child molester I can guarantee he wont be coming back.
I’m sure I was around gays during my service in the Marines but I didn’t notice it.
I didn’t witness two guys or two girls doing anything.

I would like to take this time and state I would have liked to seen two girls showering. Washing each other’s hair, rubbing soap all over their wet glistening bodies.
Watching her press her lips against her nip….oh sorry about that…where was I?

So with what I’ve said thus far I would say I need to know what the criminal did and
As for gays If it’s like my past service, I don’t see a problem

Also remember that even gays have rights. It’s a mute point what we think about gays
The Bill of Rights spells it out as it does for all of us.

Well that’s all I have to say. If you’ll excuse me I’m going back to my daydream of the two 20-year-old Irish girls showering…

 

[Calm2Chaos]

You know, the US military must be made up of wimps if what you say is true

Have no clue what this has to do with anything

(and I don't believe that). Many other countries have gay people serving
openly and there have been no problems.

Good for them. The thread asked an opinion I gave one. Can't see as you did,other thento criticize mine.

As to showering with people, it's not uncommon in Europe to have communal
facilities:

You may or may not have noticed or maybe you were just unsure. But I believe they were talking about the American Military. I could give a rats azz less what's done in europe, they are not prevelant in the US.

Ever been to a nude beach? Guess what. There will be gay people there too.

UM... again wtf are you talking about. Is it possible for you to stay on friggin topic. This has nothing to do with anything this thread is about. Sit down, close your eyes and try to figure out something to say that is relavant in the least to this thread

 

[Calm2Chaos]

Don't know about you, but when I mow the lawn, I work up quite the manly sweat. Before I know it, my tight, white tee is clinging to my taught, tawny flesh, my boyish locks become tousled, little rivulets form on my brow and then rush past my chisled cheeks then drip upon by muscular shoulders where they continue to run down past my washboard abs before disappearing below my tight speedos.

It's really a lot like showering if it's done right.

Gezzz im going to have to drink now to get that out of my head ...LOL

 

[Adrian]

And what exactly does a homosexual act like? I'm waiting...this ought to be good.

Well, there's the Gay Voice, for one. As David Cross observed, not all gay men talk that way, but only gay men have the Gay Voice.

 

[Adrian]

And what exactly does a homosexual act like? I'm waiting...this ought to be good.

Well, there's the Gay Voice, for one. As David Cross observed, not all gay men talk that way, but only gay men talk that way.

By the way, should there be different showers for people with and without criminal records? I know what perfectly heterosexual men do to each other in prisons, I don't want them taking their habits into my showers.

 

[doughgirl]

“You know, the US military must be made up of wimps if what you say is true
(and I don't believe that). Many other countries have gay people serving
openly and there have been no problems.”

I agree, if there are “no sex” policies in place anyway, then what is the harm in showering together? I mean men with men and woman with woman.

“As to showering with people, it's not uncommon in Europe to have communal
facilities: showers, saunas, and most people are adult enough to cope with it.
Ever been to a nude beach? Guess what. There will be gay people there too.”

Well I’m not going to one that is for sure. No way do I want to shower with a bunch of men. Or especially share a bathroom.

And yes, believe it or not I have been to a nude beach in my younger days. Sigh…..:3oops:

I’m not going to into morals either, because I think its wrong…BUT

What does showering with lesbians and homosexuals have to do with defending ones country and doing ones job?

I truly believe that they can do as well at their jobs as anyone straight can. Why are men particularly so hostile? So some man comes on to you……say NO, NOT INTERESTED and move on.

Cherokee your hilarious.


Who would I rather serve with? The person whoever that might be; lesbian, homosexual, heterosexual, midget, black, white, pink, atheist, Christian, democrat, republican,…… who puts sex aside and does his job with total focus on the task at hand. One who is loyal to country and to the comrades he is serving with. One that can keep his mind off his own or someones elses genitals and on his job.

One who will respect me for being who I am and one I can respect in the same way. Everyone is different,,,, but I cant help but think we can be adult enough to put stuff like that aside in order to do a job.


That’s who I’d want to serve with.

 

[doughgirl]

This poll is terrible.

People make mistakes and i'd have no problem serving with someone who had paid his debt to society.

Talk about homosexuality and being able to tell who is homosexual and who isnt.....can you pick out every criminal who has served time or been on probation in the general population?

I'd serve with either on the list....

 

[Captain America]

Doughgirl....I'm impressed. I never thought you would be so tolerant of gays.

Good on you girl. That post made a lot of sense. I wouldn't share that opinion with too many folks from church though. You might get the ol' boot.

 

[Calm2Chaos]

I agree, if there are “no sex” policies in place anyway, then what is the harm in showering together? I mean men with men and woman with woman.


Well I’m not going to one that is for sure. No way do I want to shower with a bunch of men. Or especially share a bathroom. .

But why? You see no problem with it when it comes to gay men and straight men. Obviously the desires of one should have no effect on your opinion so why is it different with men and woman?

What does showering with lesbians and homosexuals have to do with defending ones country and doing ones job? .

For the same reason they seperate men and woman in any institution.

I truly believe that they can do as well at their jobs as anyone straight can. Why are men particularly so hostile? So some man comes on to you……say NO, NOT INTERESTED and move on. .

I never said they aren't good at there jobs. That wasn't the question asked

 

[cherokee]

I
Cherokee your hilarious.

Who would I rather serve with? The person whoever that might be; lesbian, homosexual, heterosexual, midget, black, white, pink, atheist, Christian, democrat, republican,…… who puts sex aside and does his job with total focus on the task at hand. One who is loyal to country and to the comrades he is serving with. One that can keep his mind off his own or someones elses genitals and on his job.
That’s who I’d want to serve with.

What did I say?
I didn’t say anything, you cant prove anything,it wasn’t me, I was out of town that day......:mrgreen:

But I will say I think the Navy should be up of lesbians!
and gay males serve in the AF.
That would solve everything. But wait there’s more!

Just think of the recruiting posters for the Marines you could make......

Besides we all know the Air force is 100 times gay'er then the Navy.. :lol:

Sorry that was just a cheap slap to the fly boys out there.(I would have said poking fun but NOT in this thread!.... ) ..See what did I tell you they call themselves "FlyBoys"

 

[ALiberalModerate]

That's right.

The issue here is Clinton's utterly barbaric edict that they cannot serve if they are open about their homosexualty.

What a wholly and completely unenlightened man, Clinton.

You guys are unbelievable, the only reason for the dont ask dont tell was the placate the right wing. Had he just let them serve, you guys would have freaked.

 

[talloulou]

This is a totally ridiculous poll as it implies that all criminals as well as all gay people are the same and can be judged according to catagory vs their individual identities. As far as which I would rather serve with....as long as we're picking and choosing....I'd like to meet 'em first.

 

[Captain America]

You guys are unbelievable, the only reason for the dont ask dont tell was the placate the right wing. Had he just let them serve, you guys would have freaked.

No kidding, hey? :roll:

 

[ALiberalModerate]

I might add that most criminals tend to "catch the gay" while in prison.

 

[Goobieman]

You guys are unbelievable, the only reason for the dont ask dont tell was the placate the right wing. Had he just let them serve, you guys would have freaked.

Had he wanted to 'just let them serve', there isnt anything the GOP could have done about it - the Dems held Congress. The only people that had the ability to keep gays from openly serving are the Dems.

 

[jallman]

Sorry the answer is no. IF you are homosexual/Lesbian then a man/woman is what turns you on. I am not going to get into specifics or morals or any of that crap.

Sorry, but the answer is yes. I am going to tell you that being in a shower with other strangers period is not the most conducive environment to "getting turned on". You can blow off the morals and specifics and "any of that crap" but all that tells me is that you are unwilling to look at the truth of the situation.

This is the plain fact of how it is. If men didn't turn you on then you wouldn't be gay.

No problem there.

So for the same reason they seperate mens and womans showers and barracks in ANY institution, they should seperate gay from straight if in the military.

Well if thats what they want to do, then I find no problem with it. I just don't see a pressing need to force that particular issue in the context of the debate.

And if your going to tell me that a gay man in that settings isn't going to see a man he finds attractive then your completely lying IMO. If your telling me that it is not a problem then why are not all showers and barracks CO-ED in the military?

A gay man is going to find a man attractive in whatever setting he finds him attractive. The shower is no different than the barracks is no different than the mess hall is no different than the trenches. Attraction doesn't just turn itself on when you add soap and water. :roll:

The difference of me cutting the lawn and showering I would think are obvious. And I think the comparison is absurd.

Actually, it was more of a contrast, but who's counting? I am saying that the difference between a gay man seeing an attractive man on the street and seeing one in the shower is pretty apparent. First of all, on the street, there is no discomfort with the nudity and much less of a chance of being singled out for taking a look. In the shower, its different...a gay man is just like any other man in that he is just as eager to get his shower over with and get out as any other man.

Are you honestly going to tell me there isn't a single gay man that might find the oppurtunity to be around many other young men naked a good thing....

No, I am not going to tell you that as you are asking me to categorize the morals of all gay men. That doesn't work anymore than it works to categorize the morals of all straight men.

Sorry that is what is actually ludicrus. Let me shower with the woman. I promise I won't look, leer, stare, fantasize, desire, yern, have feelings for, want, be attracted to etc etc... YA .. you go ahead and believe that all you want.

Then perhaps it is your morals that must be questioned and not the gay man's who wishes to serve his country.

By the way I played several sportson and off through high school. Football, Hockey, and baseball.

Sweet...I played soccer, tennis, and wrestled.

 

[jallman]

Well, there's the Gay Voice, for one. As David Cross observed, not all gay men talk that way, but only gay men have the Gay Voice.

Absolutely false. There is no gay voice...there are differing degrees of inflection and prehaps a lisp that the entire population expresses in differing degrees.

So again, what exactly does a homosexual act like?

 

[ALiberalModerate]

Had he wanted to 'just let them serve', there isnt anything the GOP could have done about it - the Dems held Congress. The only people that had the ability to keep gays from openly serving are the Dems.

At what political cost? Honestly, do you not realize that the whole reason for Dont ask Dont Tell was that social conservatives and the religious right would have freaked had Gays actually just been able to serve. Of course, at the time, it was a political misscalculation, because you guys freaked anyway.

 

[jallman]

Who would I rather serve with? The person whoever that might be; lesbian, homosexual, heterosexual, midget, black, white, pink, atheist, Christian, democrat, republican,…… who puts sex aside and does his job with total focus on the task at hand. One who is loyal to country and to the comrades he is serving with. One that can keep his mind off his own or someones elses genitals and on his job.

One who will respect me for being who I am and one I can respect in the same way. Everyone is different,,,, but I cant help but think we can be adult enough to put stuff like that aside in order to do a job.


That’s who I’d want to serve with.

You can be really cool sometimes, you know that? :2wave: