With deep freeze still on, Minnesota utility asks customers to turn down thermostats

[MrWonka]

Utility asks customers to turn down thermostats in deep freeze - StarTribune.com

The brutal cold gripping Minnesota made itself felt in tens of thousands of living rooms Wednesday as Xcel Energy resorted to asking customers to turn their thermostats down to 63 degrees to conserve natural gas.

About 150 homes in the Princeton area, about an hour north of Minneapolis, lost natural gas service about 10:30 p.m. Tuesday. In response, Xcel asked about 12,000 customers in nearby Becker, Big Lake, Chisago City, Lindstrom, Princeton, and Isanti to turn down their thermostats to 60.

Later in the day, the company expanded that request to all of its 460,000 gas customers in Minnesota

Wait a second, I thought Fossil Fuels were forever? I keep hearing that we can't go to solar and wind because sometimes the sun goes down and sometimes the wind doesn't blow, but you can always rely on coal and gas right? It sure would be nice to have an electrical furnace and some more wind farms right now. I bet the winds from the Alberta Clippers coming down from Canada would heat a lot of homes even when the gas runs out.

 

[humbolt]

Utility asks customers to turn down thermostats in deep freeze - StarTribune.com



Wait a second, I thought Fossil Fuels were forever? I keep hearing that we can't go to solar and wind because sometimes the sun goes down and sometimes the wind doesn't blow, but you can always rely on coal and gas right? It sure would be nice to have an electrical furnace and some more wind farms right now. I bet the winds from the Alberta Clippers coming down from Canada would heat a lot of homes even when the gas runs out.

It's not the lack of fuel that is causing this request. It's the physical limits of power generation and distribution that's the problem. As it stands, wind and solar additions would face precisely the same limitation.

 

[trixare4kids]

Utility asks customers to turn down thermostats in deep freeze - StarTribune.com



Wait a second, I thought Fossil Fuels were forever? I keep hearing that we can't go to solar and wind because sometimes the sun goes down and sometimes the wind doesn't blow, but you can always rely on coal and gas right? It sure would be nice to have an electrical furnace and some more wind farms right now. I bet the winds from the Alberta Clippers coming down from Canada would heat a lot of homes even when the gas runs out.

You're spinning for an agenda.
Here's the real story....The request isn't being made because there is a lack of reserves but for this reason:

Extreme weather conditions are putting a significant strain on the natural gas system, and to make sure that service continues during this cold spell, Xcel Energy is asking all it's Minnesota natural gas customers to turn their thermostat's down to 63 degrees.　

"It's giving everything a test here," said Mark Osendorf with Xcel Energy. "Much like the electric grid being completely interconnected, the gas grid in many respects is too. This voluntary contribution, while small on an individual part, is going to have an overall big impact on system integrity."

About 150 customers lost natural gas service near Princeton, although Xcel doesn't yet know what the source of the disruption was. Crews are on site this afternoon trying ot fix the problem.

https://wccoradio.radio.com/articles/turn-down-heat-xcel-energy-asking-mn-gas-customers-conserve

 

[ludin]

Utility asks customers to turn down thermostats in deep freeze - StarTribune.com



Wait a second, I thought Fossil Fuels were forever? I keep hearing that we can't go to solar and wind because sometimes the sun goes down and sometimes the wind doesn't blow, but you can always rely on coal and gas right? It sure would be nice to have an electrical furnace and some more wind farms right now. I bet the winds from the Alberta Clippers coming down from Canada would heat a lot of homes even when the gas runs out.

and the dishonesty of your posts continue.

this has nothing to do with the availability of fuel. that fuel is plenty as humbolt said this has to do with preserving power distribution.
the lost gas probably due to a pump or something freezing as if a windmill that is 200 feet in the air wouldn't freeze from the same conditions.

 

[trouble13]

Utility asks customers to turn down thermostats in deep freeze - StarTribune.com



Wait a second, I thought Fossil Fuels were forever? I keep hearing that we can't go to solar and wind because sometimes the sun goes down and sometimes the wind doesn't blow, but you can always rely on coal and gas right? It sure would be nice to have an electrical furnace and some more wind farms right now. I bet the winds from the Alberta Clippers coming down from Canada would heat a lot of homes even when the gas runs out.

You think solar and wind could keep up to the demand spike there right now?

Not to mention there are environmental problems associated with those alternate fuels

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 

[joko104]

Solar really does work best when it is clouded over and the temperature is below zero - especially at night when it is the coldest and solar works the best. :roll:

 

[Felis Leo]

Electric heating systems may certainly be of some benefit, but solar panels do not work at night when everything is at its coldest, and wind is not constant. If the United States government would allow for the construction of more nuclear power plants, that would certainly help matters, but that is politically unviable right now as many on the non-scientific political left (not all on the political left) view nuclear energy as vampires view crucifixes.

 

[chuckiechan]

It's not the lack of fuel that is causing this request. It's the physical limits of power generation and distribution that's the problem. As it stands, wind and solar additions would face precisely the same limitation.

And your windmills would probably be scrap, and your solar panels blown out into a field somewhere. If anything, the need for duplicate power systems is apparent. So you have to pay for one with all of the disadvantages of one to get the benefits of the other. We arent like pre-WW1 hominids that just toughed it out and huddled together to survive.

 

[PirateMk1]

Utility asks customers to turn down thermostats in deep freeze - StarTribune.com



Wait a second, I thought Fossil Fuels were forever? I keep hearing that we can't go to solar and wind because sometimes the sun goes down and sometimes the wind doesn't blow, but you can always rely on coal and gas right? It sure would be nice to have an electrical furnace and some more wind farms right now. I bet the winds from the Alberta Clippers coming down from Canada would heat a lot of homes even when the gas runs out.

:failpail: You have no experience, with severe artic level temps. Everything is stressed and harder to do, not mention at those temperatures the very materials take on altered properties sometimes significantly. Oil and gas doesn't pour it becomes a solid or heavy slush. The windmills are lubricated with oil. Thats how the 130,000 lbs 1,000,000 plus dollar generators have longevity. The windmills are probabley idle because there is too much wind or its too cold. The blades are made with fiberglass and resin. They have strength at specific temperature ranges. Above or below those temperature ranges the blades which are built as light as possible will not survive the generated routine stresses for very long if at all.

I run a logistics company. Right now the rates for lanes going into the Chicago land area are quite confiscatory if not down right theft. The only people taking those rates are the dumb and the risk takers which are very few right now. I wont book freight into areas were the temps are below 0 degrees Fahrenheit. Its to hard on the equipment and things fail too easily. Better to shut down and wait for things to warm up.

 

[Vern]

If the United States government would allow for the construction of more nuclear power plants, that would certainly help matters, but that is politically unviable right now as many on the non-scientific political left (not all on the political left) view nuclear energy as vampires view crucifixes.

your simplistic excuse for no new nuke plants seems to overlook that republicans aren't afraid to stand up to climate change. And they were pretty brave when they weren't in power when it came to Obamacare and deficits. Oh, and your excuse is false. there is no federal restriction on new nuclear plants.

While there are plans for a number of new reactors (see section on Preparing for new build below), no more than two more new units will come online by 2021. Since about 2010 the prospect of low natural gas prices continuing for several years has dampened plans for new nuclear capacity.

Nuclear Power in the USA - World Nuclear Association

 

[MrWonka]

It's not the lack of fuel that is causing this request. It's the physical limits of power generation and distribution that's the problem. As it stands, wind and solar additions would face precisely the same limitation.

It seems to only be people with natural gas furnaces that are having the issues. Electric furnaces are fine since they can draw power from a number of different sources including wind. The point here is that it's good to have a lot of backup options and alternative ways to generate power. We know we're going to eventually run low on gas and coal. Why burn up any more of our supply than we have to when we could be moving toward renewables faster?

 

[MrWonka]

You have no experience, with severe artic level temps.

:failpail: I'm from Minnesota.

 

[MrWonka]

Electric heating systems may certainly be of some benefit, but solar panels do not work at night

You know what batteries are right? Does the wind blow at night?

 

[AGENT J]

Utility asks customers to turn down thermostats in deep freeze - StarTribune.com



Wait a second, I thought Fossil Fuels were forever? I keep hearing that we can't go to solar and wind because sometimes the sun goes down and sometimes the wind doesn't blow, but you can always rely on coal and gas right? It sure would be nice to have an electrical furnace and some more wind farms right now. I bet the winds from the Alberta Clippers coming down from Canada would heat a lot of homes even when the gas runs out.

Did you not read your own article or did you just not understand it? LMAO
While I support more and more green enegerdy and back up systems etc this has nothign to do with fossil fuels lasting forever:lamo

 

[Felis Leo]

You know what batteries are right? Does the wind blow at night?

You raise what is the biggest problem with renewable energy, MrWonka, which is storage. Currently the technology does not exist (though there may be advances on the horizon) to hold vast quantities of previously-generated power in storage. The amount of energy that one can store in batteries is extremely minute compared to the amount of energy that is needed to power high-energy consumption devices like heaters and air conditioners. Have you ever heard of any town or cities relying on emergency batteries as a fuel source? Probably not. You have to use the power while it is being generated, or else it is lost. That is why hospitals have emergency power generators that run on petrol, rather than emergency batteries.

 

[OldFatGuy]

One of these in the kitchen and all is well:

https://www.acehardware.com/departm...-pellet-stoves/wood-and-pellet-stoves/4639720

 

[longview]

You raise what is the biggest problem with renewable energy, MrWonka, which is storage. Currently the technology does not exist (though there may be advances on the horizon) to hold vast quantities of previously-generated power in storage. The amount of energy that one can store in batteries is extremely minute compared to the amount of energy that is needed to power high-energy consumption devices like heaters and air conditioners. Have you ever heard of any town or cities relying on emergency batteries as a fuel source? Probably not. You have to use the power while it is being generated, or else it is lost. That is why hospitals have emergency power generators that run on petrol, rather than emergency batteries.

Germany had a good idea, that is still being developed.
The long summer days produce surplus solar power which does not have a high demand in areas that use little Air conditioning,
the idea was to store the surplus and man made natural gas.
https://www.fraunhofer.de/en/press/research-news/2010/04/green-electricity-storage-gas.html
The gas grid would effectively become the energy storage device.
The Carbon neutral gas could then be used for winter heating.

 

[Felis Leo]

Germany had a good idea, that is still being developed.
The long summer days produce surplus solar power which does not have a high demand in areas that use little Air conditioning,
the idea was to store the surplus and man made natural gas.
https://www.fraunhofer.de/en/press/research-news/2010/04/green-electricity-storage-gas.html
The gas grid would effectively become the energy storage device.
The Carbon neutral gas could then be used for winter heating.

Well, having large quantities of self-generated natural gas is very good, but it really seems to ad hoc to me. I think Germany is the worst example for the world to follow as they have become ensconced in unscientific anti-nuclear dogma and are closing down nuclear power plants left and right and leaving their energy security to the Russians.

 

[MrWonka]

You think solar and wind could keep up to the demand spike there right now?
Not to mention there are environmental problems associated with those alternate fuels

HAHAHAHHAHA!!!! Yeah, I'm sure you're so worried about the environment.

May I remind you that the reason for the spike is because of the polar vortex which is intern caused by Global Warming which is intern caused by the burning of fossil fuels. So there's a pretty good chance they wouldn't have a demand spike right now if we focused on that problem.

While we may not have the ability today to meet this type of demand using renewables there is absolutely no reason to think we couldn't if we made the proper investments in them today before we run out of back up fuels like Natural Gas and Coal.

 

[MrWonka]

Have you ever heard of any town or cities relying on emergency batteries as a fuel source? Probably not.

Actually, that is one of the things that Tesla has been working on for a while now. A system where each home comes equipped with a large battery of its own that could be used to store power in off hours or during hours where the sun is brightest.

 

[longview]

Well, having large quantities of self-generated natural gas is very good, but it really seems to ad hoc to me. I think Germany is the worst example for the world to follow as they have become ensconced in unscientific anti-nuclear dogma and are closing down nuclear power plants left and right and leaving their energy security to the Russians.

I am not endorsing what Germany is doing, but was pointing out the concept of an energy storage device that is not a battery.
Using the created gas as a heat source would eliminate the Carnot inefficiencies from turning it back into electricity.
This would not be economically viable...yet, because of the surplus of natural gas, but they also can make liquid fuels.
Liquid fuels will get economical much sooner, like when oil hits between $90 and $100 a barrel.
It may already be viable for the Navy, The Naval Research labs are discussing sea trails within the next few years.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ask9PT3q9Ak

 

[Felis Leo]

Actually, that is one of the things that Tesla has been working on for a while now. A system where each home comes equipped with a large battery of its own that could be used to store power in off hours or during hours where the sun is brightest.

Well, if Tesla is able to develop reliable cost-effective high-quantity energy storage, enough to power or at least provide reliable reserve energy to homes and businesses, then it will be absolutely revolutionary and make renewable power sources like wind and solar infinitely more valuable. I can only wish them the greatest success.

 

[joko104]

your simplistic excuse for no new nuke plants seems to overlook that republicans aren't afraid to stand up to climate change. And they were pretty brave when they weren't in power when it came to Obamacare and deficits. Oh, and your excuse is false. there is no federal restriction on new nuclear plants.

While there are plans for a number of new reactors (see section on Preparing for new build below), no more than two more new units will come online by 2021. Since about 2010 the prospect of low natural gas prices continuing for several years has dampened plans for new nuclear capacity.

Nuclear Power in the USA - World Nuclear Association

No more nuclear power plants. They are outrageously expensive, dangerous and to date no method has been developed to safely dispose of the radioactive waste.

 

[MTAtech]

Electric heating systems may certainly be of some benefit, but solar panels do not work at night when everything is at its coldest, and wind is not constant. If the United States government would allow for the construction of more nuclear power plants, that would certainly help matters, but that is politically unviable right now as many on the non-scientific political left (not all on the political left) view nuclear energy as vampires view crucifixes.

There are ingenious ways to store electricity generated during the day by solar.

https://www.popularmechanics.com/sc...ever-new-ways-to-store-solar-energy-16407404/

 

[humbolt]

It seems to only be people with natural gas furnaces that are having the issues. Electric furnaces are fine since they can draw power from a number of different sources including wind. The point here is that it's good to have a lot of backup options and alternative ways to generate power. We know we're going to eventually run low on gas and coal. Why burn up any more of our supply than we have to when we could be moving toward renewables faster?

If you want to do that for your own home, more power to you. The problem with scale is that you can't get sufficient energy through the system. It's like attempting to put out a house fully engulfed in flames with the water you can get through a half inch pipe. There may be more than enough water at the source, but it can't be delivered in sufficient quantity through that half inch pipe.