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With all respect to all nations

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This is a message to everyone who think that our nation as muslims is radical or violant,

I would like to say that if you can take a chance before you judge us and look at neutral books that talk about true Islam and what a true muslim should be like ..
there are almost 1,300,000,000 muslims in the world and the ones acting the way you see it on tv are the ones that disobey Islam foundations even the terrorists themselves can not be considered true muslims..
Prophet muhammed taught us nothing but being respectful to all other nations & other religions, think before taking any actions, be civil, and never hurt civilians whatever was the reason even the ones taken as prisioners during war.. these are the reasons why we ruled in old history time.. unfortunately back then because of disobeying these fundamentals we lost that leadership ..
I believe that every muslim who was raised on these pricipals will agree with me and apologize for the hurt caused so far under the name of Islam but at the same time we will not accept any insults to our religion neither to our great prophet muhammed under any circumstances even if it was for the sake of freedom of opinion.. freedom's definition stops when you start hurting others' feeling even if you do not see anything wrong with it..
Furthermore, we won't accept any such cartoons about any of other prophets because we believe in them as well and an insult to them is an insult to us..its part of our oath as muslims ..this our response to whoever thinks we'll accept insults to others religions..


My message does not justify the actions taking place now but we are justifying boycotting Danish & Norwegian products and refusing to deal with them at all levels until the officially apologize cuz insulting us in public & apologizing silently is not fair.. just imagine if things were the other way around and we are the ones who had done this to christians or jews, then you tell me if those guys will let things go ..

Thank you for taking time to read my message..
 

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Peaceful Muslim said:
This is a message to everyone who think that our nation as muslims is radical or violant,

I would like to say that if you can take a chance before you judge us and look at neutral books that talk about true Islam and what a true muslim should be like ..
there are almost 1,300,000,000 muslims in the world and the ones acting the way you see it on tv are the ones that disobey Islam foundations even the terrorists themselves can not be considered true muslims..
Prophet muhammed taught us nothing but being respectful to all other nations & other religions, think before taking any actions, be civil, and never hurt civilians whatever was the reason even the ones taken as prisioners during war.. these are the reasons why we ruled in old history time.. unfortunately back then because of disobeying these fundamentals we lost that leadership ..
I believe that every muslim who was raised on these pricipals will agree with me and apologize for the hurt caused so far under the name of Islam
If you had just stopped your post here, I would've commended you and said something about how I wish more Muslims were willing to stand up like you did.

Unfortunately, you had to continue...and reinforce my previous perceptions of Muslims.

Peaceful Muslim said:
but at the same time we will not accept any insults to our religion neither to our great prophet muhammed under any circumstances even if it was for the sake of freedom of opinion.. freedom's definition stops when you start hurting others' feeling even if you do not see anything wrong with it..
Someone's feelings will be hurt by everything. If we only have freedom of speech when we aren't offending anyone, we don't have freedom of speech at all.

Peaceful Muslim said:
Furthermore, we won't accept any such cartoons about any of other prophets because we believe in them as well and an insult to them is an insult to us..its part of our oath as muslims ..this our response to whoever thinks we'll accept insults to others religions..


My message does not justify the actions taking place now but we are justifying boycotting Danish & Norwegian products and refusing to deal with them at all levels until the officially apologize cuz insulting us in public & apologizing silently is not fair.
Why should they "officially" apologize for anything? The government has no control over what the press does, as well they shouldn't. The only ones who should be demanding official apologies are the Danes, Swedes, and Norweigians. There is no way the embassies in Syria were torched without the government allowing it.

Peaceful Muslim said:
just imagine if things were the other way around and we are the ones who had done this to christians or jews, then you tell me if those guys will let things go ..
Arab nations routinely publish anti-Jewish cartoons in the state-controlled press, yet the Western world doesn't respond by rioting and burning down embassies and behaving like barbarians.
 
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first of all its not anti-jewish.. its anti Israilian and there is a huge difference..

and second of all i wanna tell you one fact .. Even us muslims, are not allowed to draw pictures for our prophet even if you see all of our movies revolving around his time you will never find an actor playing his role..
how about letting anyone else draw him and humor him .. this is our religion and this our thing even if you guys do not believe in it or the other nations.. can't you at least respect that ? we are not asking for a lot all what we want is let you see that all the horrible things happening under the name of Islam is not related to it at all .. A true muslim has been and will always be Civil..
all what we are asking for is the respect to all religions and keep them away from human faults .. i do not think this a lot to ask..
 

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Peaceful Muslim said:
first of all its not anti-jewish.. its anti Israilian and there is a huge difference..
Is this anti-Israeli, not anti-Jewish?
http://www.arabeuropean.org/newsdetail.php?ID=95


Do you think that Jews will respond by burning down embassies and demanding that the cartoonists be executed? My guess is no.


Peaceful Muslim said:
and second of all i wanna tell you one fact .. Even us muslims, are not allowed to draw pictures for our prophet even if you see all of our movies revolving around his time you will never find an actor playing his role..
Back in the days before the Muslim world reentered the Dark Ages, it was not at all uncommon to see pictures of Mohammed.

Peaceful Muslim said:
how about letting anyone else draw him and humor him
How about it? If you believe it's a sin to draw pictures of Mohammed, then don't draw pictures of Mohammed. But don't expect non-Muslims to obey the religious codes of Islam.

Peaceful Muslim said:
this is our religion and this our thing even if you guys do not believe in it or the other nations.. can't you at least respect that ?
Some people can respect it, some can't. That's inevitably the result of freedom of expression. It doesn't justify collective punishment against an entire nation where 99.99% of the people had nothing to do with the cartoons, and it certainly doesn't justify acts of barbarism.

If you don't like the cartoons, boycott the newspaper or condemn the cartoon in your blog or write an angry letter to the owners of the newspaper. You'll get better results that way.

Peaceful Muslim said:
we are not asking for a lot all what we want is let you see that all the horrible things happening under the name of Islam is not related to it at all .. A true muslim has been and will always be Civil..
all what we are asking for is the respect to all religions and keep them away from human faults .. i do not think this a lot to ask..
It is a lot to ask, because it amounts to censorship. There is literally no opinion that one can express, that isn't offensive to someone somewhere.
 

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Peaceful Muslim said:
and second of all i wanna tell you one fact .. Even us muslims, are not allowed to draw pictures for our prophet even if you see all of our movies revolving around his time you will never find an actor playing his role..
I hate to inform you, but this is not a true statement...

Amir Taheri said:
There is no Quranic injunction against images, whether of Muhammad or anyone else...the claim that a ban on images is "an absolute principle of Islam" is purely political.
Wikipedia said:
Amir Taheri is an Iranian-born journalist and author based in Europe.

His writtings focus on the Middle East affairs and topics related to Islamist terrorism...

...Amir Taheri has attended universities in Tehran, London and Paris...

He was editor-in-chief of "Jeune Afrique" and Middle East editor for the London Sunday Times. He has written for the Daily Times, The Daily Telegraph, The Guardian, The Daily Mail and other leading British publications.

He was executive editor-in-chief of Kayhan, Iran's main daily newspaper.

He has been a columnist for the pan-Arab daily "Asharq Alawsat" and its sister publication Arab News, International Herald Tribune,The Wall Street Journal, The New York Times, The Los Angeles Times, Newsday, and The Washington Post.

He was also an editorial writer for the German daily Die Welt and has written for Der Spiegel, Die Zeit and Algemeine Zeitung in Germany, La Repubblica in Italy, L'Express, Politique Internationale and Le Nouvel Observateur in France, and El Mundo in Spain.

Currently he is a contributor to the German weekly Focus as well ast the National Review and the New York Post.

Taheri has published nine books some of which have been translated into 20 languages...
This is an accusation that is only used when best suited to further an agenda...

There are plenty of pictures of Mohammed distibuted throughout the Middle East, and there are even pictures, statues, and depictions throughout Middle Eastern Museums...

Even if that WEREN'T true, you would still have an issue with Western depictions of Moses and Jesus, who are also prophets of Islam...

And, might I add, are depicted blasphamously without retribution both in the West AND the Middle East...

Sorry...You can't claim "bias" only when its to your advantage...If these people protesting were legit, the protests would've been held long ago...

And just where did all of those Danish flags come from in the Middle East that were so readily available to burn?...I doubt they were always being sold on the street corners...

Nope...They were given out...

Way to be genuine...:roll:
 
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I respect everything you said.. you have your own opinions and that is fine.. but again you are still relating Islam to what some Muslims do ..
All I advice you to do is read.. read about us and our history from good resources not biased i am sure you will come to a conclusion that we have right to ask for our prophet's protection ... He was the greatest leader humanity ever known .. he will always be and all of us believe in that


Again, I clarify that we are all against burning embassies and damage and demanding that cartoonists be executed and all those overreactions.. This is not Civil..

but we want to demand the right to respect our religion that is all and if anything the same happened from our side to other religions in public publishings then judge us you are more than welcome..

Let us keep us keep religions away from nations conflicts..wither for muslims or christians or jews or any other religioin as a matter of fact.

Kandahar said:
Is this anti-Israeli, not anti-Jewish?
http://www.arabeuropean.org/newsdetail.php?ID=95


Do you think that Jews will respond by burning down embassies and demanding that the cartoonists be executed? My guess is no.




Back in the days before the Muslim world reentered the Dark Ages, it was not at all uncommon to see pictures of Mohammed.



How about it? If you believe it's a sin to draw pictures of Mohammed, then don't draw pictures of Mohammed. But don't expect non-Muslims to obey the religious codes of Islam.



Some people can respect it, some can't. That's inevitably the result of freedom of expression. It doesn't justify collective punishment against an entire nation where 99.99% of the people had nothing to do with the cartoons, and it certainly doesn't justify acts of barbarism.

If you don't like the cartoons, boycott the newspaper or condemn the cartoon in your blog or write an angry letter to the owners of the newspaper. You'll get better results that way.



It is a lot to ask, because it amounts to censorship. There is literally no opinion that one can express, that isn't offensive to someone somewhere.
 

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Peaceful Muslim said:
but we want to demand the right to respect our religion that is all and if anything the same happened from our side to other religions in public publishings then judge us you are more than welcome...
You're kidding, right?...Please tell me you're joking...

Has the term "infidel" snuck by you all of this time?...The Middle Eastern civilization has done NOTHING but treat the West as "Satan's sons" based on our non-Islamic beliefs...We are considered "enemies of Allah" because we do not worship Mohammed, and the prophets of Judaism, along with the Christian Savior, have been vilified repeatedly throughout the Middle East...

people have been killed solely due to their religious beliefs...

That happened centuries ago for Christians back when the religion was still "teething" in a primitive age...

The Western civilization grew up...What happened to the Middle Eastern civilization?...
 
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cnredd said:
You're kidding, right?...Please tell me you're joking...

Has the term "infidel" snuck by you all of this time?...The Middle Eastern civilization has done NOTHING but treat the West as "Satan's sons" based on our non-Islamic beliefs...We are considered "enemies of Allah" because we do not worship Mohammed, and the prophets of Judaism, along with the Christian Savior, have been vilified repeatedly throughout the Middle East...

people have been killed solely due to their religious beliefs...

That happened centuries ago for Christians back when the religion was still "teething" in a primitive age...

The Western civilization grew up...What happened to the Middle Eastern civilization?...
i am so sorry if you have that idea that we think you are satans sons or enemies of allah .. believe me we don't because that's what prophet muhammed taught us .. prophet muhammed lived with jewish and christians in the same place peacefully and dealth with them on all levels..
i am not kidding and if you can read holy quran you will see that we never force anyone to be a muslim this a personal choice .. yes we try to convice people with it but not obligate..

Please, let us not relate islam to how things are handled .. this is not islam and it will never be ..
 

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Peaceful Muslim said:
i am so sorry if you have that idea that we think you are satans sons or enemies of allah .. believe me we don't because that's what prophet muhammed taught us .. prophet muhammed lived with jewish and christians in the same place peacefully and dealth with them on all levels..
i am not kidding and if you can read holy quran you will see that we never force anyone to be a muslim this a personal choice .. yes we try to convice people with it but not obligate..

Please, let us not relate islam to how things are handled .. this is not islam and it will never be ..
Everything sounds great...only one problem...

You're preaching to the wrong choir...

Tell that to the ones that are perverting your own religion and using it for political purposes...What you say to us won't change anything...

Maybe if you say it to them...:2wave:
 
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cnredd said:
Everything sounds great...only one problem...

You're preaching to the wrong choir...

Tell that to the ones that are perverting your own religion and using it for political purposes...What you say to us won't change anything...

Maybe if you say it to them...:2wave:
I just wanted to talk to you , the people i know this won't change anything .. but this is what is in my hand right now ... telling you that we are better people than you think we are ..
 

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Peaceful Muslim said:
This is a message to everyone who think that our nation as muslims is radical or violant,

I would like to say that if you can take a chance before you judge us and look at neutral books that talk about true Islam and what a true muslim should be like ..
there are almost 1,300,000,000 muslims in the world and the ones acting the way you see it on tv are the ones that disobey Islam foundations even the terrorists themselves can not be considered true muslims..
Prophet muhammed taught us nothing but being respectful to all other nations & other religions, think before taking any actions, be civil, and never hurt civilians whatever was the reason even the ones taken as prisioners during war.. these are the reasons why we ruled in old history time.. unfortunately back then because of disobeying these fundamentals we lost that leadership ..
I believe that every muslim who was raised on these pricipals will agree with me and apologize for the hurt caused so far under the name of Islam but at the same time we will not accept any insults to our religion neither to our great prophet muhammed under any circumstances even if it was for the sake of freedom of opinion.. freedom's definition stops when you start hurting others' feeling even if you do not see anything wrong with it..
Furthermore, we won't accept any such cartoons about any of other prophets because we believe in them as well and an insult to them is an insult to us..its part of our oath as muslims ..this our response to whoever thinks we'll accept insults to others religions..


My message does not justify the actions taking place now but we are justifying boycotting Danish & Norwegian products and refusing to deal with them at all levels until the officially apologize cuz insulting us in public & apologizing silently is not fair.. just imagine if things were the other way around and we are the ones who had done this to christians or jews, then you tell me if those guys will let things go ..

Thank you for taking time to read my message..
You do,do it to chistians and jews.Muslim newspapers in the middle east print terible cartoons about jews and christians.
Coptic christians in Egypt are murdered just for being christian.
It is the behaviour of muslims that says what they are.
 

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Peaceful Muslim said:
This is a message to everyone who think that our nation as muslims is radical or violant,

I would like to say that if you can take a chance before you judge us and look at neutral books that talk about true Islam and what a true muslim should be like ..
there are almost 1,300,000,000 muslims in the world and the ones acting the way you see it on tv are the ones that disobey Islam foundations even the terrorists themselves can not be considered true muslims..
Prophet muhammed taught us nothing but being respectful to all other nations & other religions, think before taking any actions, be civil, and never hurt civilians whatever was the reason even the ones taken as prisioners during war.. these are the reasons why we ruled in old history time.. unfortunately back then because of disobeying these fundamentals we lost that leadership ..
I believe that every muslim who was raised on these pricipals will agree with me and apologize for the hurt caused so far under the name of Islam but at the same time we will not accept any insults to our religion neither to our great prophet muhammed under any circumstances even if it was for the sake of freedom of opinion.. freedom's definition stops when you start hurting others' feeling even if you do not see anything wrong with it..
Furthermore, we won't accept any such cartoons about any of other prophets because we believe in them as well and an insult to them is an insult to us..its part of our oath as muslims ..this our response to whoever thinks we'll accept insults to others religions..


My message does not justify the actions taking place now but we are justifying boycotting Danish & Norwegian products and refusing to deal with them at all levels until the officially apologize cuz insulting us in public & apologizing silently is not fair.. just imagine if things were the other way around and we are the ones who had done this to christians or jews, then you tell me if those guys will let things go ..

Thank you for taking time to read my message..
The last time I talked to a Peaceful “muslim” female was in August 2001, on a Florida Message Board, those communications abruptly stopped before September 11, 2001, and that member of the “nation as muslims” defended the Taliban:

http://www.geocities.com/weneedallah/index.html

The only substantial question answered before September 11, 2001 had to do with no compulsion in religion:

“002.256
YUSUFALI: Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things.
PICKTHAL: There is no compulsion in religion. The right direction is henceforth distinct from error. And he who rejecteth false deities and believeth in Allah hath grasped a firm handhold which will never break. Allah is Hearer, Knower.
SHAKIR: There is no compulsion in religion; truly the right way has become clearly distinct from error; therefore, whoever disbelieves in the Shaitan and believes in Allah he indeed has laid hold on the firmest handle, which shall not break off, and Allah is Hearing, Knowing.” http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/002.qmt.html

After hearing what that Muslim said about “no compulsion in religion,” and finding similar explanations on the Internet, I have to ask, how so you interpret that?

I am having a real hard time distinguishing between civilians of the nation as muslims.

Please help me!

You say “never hurt civilians whatever was the reason,” well if your nation as muslims sends out messengers your nation as muslims calls “martyrs,” that do dress in civilian clothes as the principle means of warfare, we can not stop from hurting “civilians.”

I am having a real hard time finding out what “nation as muslims” claims the magical “they” that Saddam said “should, rather, be reassured and helped to save themselves, and their surroundings:“

“On the basis of what we said about Iraq while confronting aggressions, the world now needs to abort the US aggressive schemes, including its aggression on the Afghan people, which must stop.
Again we say that when someone feels that he is unjustly treated, and no one is repulsing or stopping the injustice inflicted on him, he personally seeks ways and means for lifting that justice. Of course, not everyone is capable of finding the best way for lifting the injustice inflicted on him. People resort to what they think is the best way according to their own ideas, and they are not all capable of reaching out for what is beyond what is available to arrive to the best idea or means.
To find the best way, after having found their way to God and His rights, those who are inflicted by injustice need not to be isolated from their natural milieu, or be ignored deliberately, or as a result of mis-appreciation, by the officials in this milieu. They should, rather, be reassured and helped to save themselves, and their surroundings.” (Saddam Hussein Shabban 13, 1422 H. October 29, 2001.)

So we can distinguish between the “civilian” and soldier, do you want to help me find out who Saddam was talking about there?

Is Hamas a terrorist group? Is it alright if we hurt Hamas and their allies?
 

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Today I read, that European Union is busy to develop a press codex to prevent such insults in the future. This is actually good news and I hope it works.
 

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Peaceful Muslim said:
first of all its not anti-jewish.. its anti Israilian and there is a huge difference..

and second of all i wanna tell you one fact .. Even us muslims, are not allowed to draw pictures for our prophet even if you see all of our movies revolving around his time you will never find an actor playing his role..
how about letting anyone else draw him and humor him .. this is our religion and this our thing even if you guys do not believe in it or the other nations.. can't you at least respect that ? we are not asking for a lot all what we want is let you see that all the horrible things happening under the name of Islam is not related to it at all .. A true muslim has been and will always be Civil..
all what we are asking for is the respect to all religions and keep them away from human faults .. i do not think this a lot to ask..
If your asking me to be censored then it is a lot to ask. If your are unable to be at least tolerant of other peoples views and opinions then I don't see how "peacefull" can be part of what your saying. In the land of the great satan when things like this occur there are many reactions. There may be outrage and arguments, debates and conjecture. But what there isn't is mahem, chaos, destruction, rioting....... Because to be truly peacfull it would seem to me that you have to be truly tolerant. Tolerant of those that think differently of you. Tolerant of those that infuriate you. tolerant of those that may mock you. I do not have to have respect for your religion.... You do. But respecting your religion is different then destroying and murdering in it's name
 

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Volker said:
Today I read, that European Union is busy to develop a press codex to prevent such insults in the future. This is actually good news and I hope it works.

YA .. thank god there willing to fold under the demands of censorship by a radical religous nuts. I'm curious does this mean they will stop printing anything that someone else finds offensive? Or is this just special treatment for muslims or islam?
 
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Franco Frattini, he is the European Commissioner for Justice, proposed it in an interview with "Daily Telegraph" today. But I do not have the original source. The article was talking about religious feelings in general. The details have to be negotiated between European Comission and media companies. At the moment it seems to be an idea without details.
 

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Volker said:
Franco Frattini, he is the European Commissioner for Justice, proposed it in an interview with "Daily Telegraph" today. But I do not have the original source. The article was talking about religious feelings in general. The details have to be negotiated between European Comission and media companies. At the moment it seems to be an idea without details.
Seems to be Europe is going to curtail freedom of the press for the sake of rioting muslims/islamist.
 

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Calm2Chaos said:
If your asking me to be censored then it is a lot to ask. If your are unable to be at least tolerant of other peoples views and opinions then I don't see how "peacefull" can be part of what your saying. In the land of the great satan when things like this occur there are many reactions. There may be outrage and arguments, debates and conjecture. But what there isn't is mahem, chaos, destruction, rioting....... Because to be truly peacfull it would seem to me that you have to be truly tolerant. Tolerant of those that think differently of you. Tolerant of those that infuriate you. tolerant of those that may mock you. I do not have to have respect for your religion.... You do. But respecting your religion is different then destroying and murdering in it's name
Well, let's not go out too deep here. Tolerance means respecting the beliefs of others....not refraining from violence towards them. We are not as prone to mass violence. And why that is is a very good question.
 

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mixedmedia said:
Well, let's not go out too deep here. Tolerance means respecting the beliefs of others....not refraining from violence towards them. We are not as prone to mass violence. And why that is is a very good question.
I don't have to respect the religion or there beliefs, I only have to tolerate it. And if that means walking away from them instead of turning it into a violent confrontation. Then they have there freedoms to practice and preach what they want. If they opt to bastardize there religion in the name of violence then all bets are off
 

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Calm2Chaos said:
I don't have to respect the religion or there beliefs, I only have to tolerate it. And if that means walking away from them instead of turning it into a violent confrontation. Then they have there freedoms to practice and preach what they want. If they opt to bastardize there religion in the name of violence then all bets are off
Tolerance literally means to respect their religion or their beliefs.
 

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mixedmedia said:
Tolerance literally means to respect their religion or their beliefs.
But only to a point where it doesn't infringe on the freedoms or beliefs of others...

If I start a religion that kills children for sacrifice, I hardly think you would...or should...be tolerant of my beliefs...

There are limits....
 

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mixedmedia said:
Tolerance literally means to respect their religion or their beliefs.
OK.. you are right by definition... So I am going to change my stance and say that I don't have to tolerate them, I have to allow them there beliefs without fear of violence. Or I have to put up with what believe in. BUt I don't have to respect it
 

mixedmedia

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cnredd said:
But only to a point where it doesn't infringe on the freedoms or beliefs of others...

If I start a religion that kills children for sacrifice, I hardly think you would...or should...be tolerant of my beliefs...

There are limits....
Well, naturally I was referring to the religion of Islam, not terrorism or the cult of violence that has hijacked the religion.

But my point initially was to not pat ourselves on the back too soundly as the pillars of tolerance because there is still intolerance in our society. I don't believe man ever has achieved a state of true tolerance. Maybe it isn't possible.
 

mixedmedia

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Calm2Chaos said:
OK.. you are right by definition... So I am going to change my stance and say that I don't have to tolerate them, I have to allow them there beliefs without fear of violence. Or I have to put up with what believe in. BUt I don't have to respect it
Do you have an opinion as to why their intolerance so often results in tragedy and violence? While ours usually manifests in more passive and/or sociable ways (w/ notable exceptions)?
 

cnredd

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mixedmedia said:
Well, naturally I was referring to the religion of Islam, not terrorism or the cult of violence that has hijacked the religion.

But my point initially was to not pat ourselves on the back too soundly as the pillars of tolerance because there is still intolerance in our society. I don't believe man ever has achieved a state of true tolerance. Maybe it isn't possible.
But pointing out one's intolerance as a way to negate their position that other people are being intolerant doesn't accomplish anything...

If I say "You are wrong", You pointing out that I am also wrong doesn't negate the original contention...

If I tell a ten-year old that they shouldn't smoke, the fact that I have a Marlboro Light in my hand is irrelevant...My position is still clear...
 
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