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Wilson's full of crap.

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SouthernDemocrat

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No, action its the commentator who wrote that OP-ED that is full of crap. As I have posted earlier:

Results of ISG’s Investigation on Nuclear Issues


Iraq did not possess a nuclear device, nor had it tried to reconstitute a capability to produce nuclear weapons after 1991.

ISG has uncovered no information to support allegations of Iraqi pursuit of uranium from abroad in the post-Operation Desert Storm era.
  • In the late 1970s and early 1980s, Iraq had an aggressive program to acquire uranium. Iraq’s known inventory of safeguarded uranium has been accounted for by the IAEA and Coalition in June 2004. These issues are described in detail in the uranium pursuits section of this paper.
Iraq did not reconstitute its indigenous ability to produce yellowcake. As a result of Desert Storm and IAEA inspection efforts, Iraq’s indigenous yellowcake production capability appears to have been eliminated. Bomb damage in 1991 destroyed the uranium extraction facility at the Al Qaim Superphosphate Fertilizer Plant. During the years of intrusive inspections, the IAEA also closed and sealed the Abu Skhair mine to curtail Iraq’s secondary pilot plant production capability for acquiring uranium.
  • ISG also investigated the former nuclear facility at Tarmiya but found no indicators that the processes being developed there had produced more than a few kilograms of uranium-bearing wastes as a byproduct of phosphoric acid purification.
  • These issues also are further described in the uranium pursuits section of this paper."
Source: http://www.cia.gov/cia/reports/iraq_...ap4.html#sect3

As you can see, history has shown Wilson to be completely right and the Bush Administration to be completely wrong on this issue (or just liars, take your pick).
 
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SouthernDemocrat said:
No, action its the commentator who wrote that OP-ED that is full of crap. As I have posted earlier:

Results of ISG’s Investigation on Nuclear Issues


Iraq did not possess a nuclear device, nor had it tried to reconstitute a capability to produce nuclear weapons after 1991.

ISG has uncovered no information to support allegations of Iraqi pursuit of uranium from abroad in the post-Operation Desert Storm era.
  • In the late 1970s and early 1980s, Iraq had an aggressive program to acquire uranium. Iraq’s known inventory of safeguarded uranium has been accounted for by the IAEA and Coalition in June 2004. These issues are described in detail in the uranium pursuits section of this paper.
Iraq did not reconstitute its indigenous ability to produce yellowcake. As a result of Desert Storm and IAEA inspection efforts, Iraq’s indigenous yellowcake production capability appears to have been eliminated. Bomb damage in 1991 destroyed the uranium extraction facility at the Al Qaim Superphosphate Fertilizer Plant. During the years of intrusive inspections, the IAEA also closed and sealed the Abu Skhair mine to curtail Iraq’s secondary pilot plant production capability for acquiring uranium.
  • ISG also investigated the former nuclear facility at Tarmiya but found no indicators that the processes being developed there had produced more than a few kilograms of uranium-bearing wastes as a byproduct of phosphoric acid purification.
  • These issues also are further described in the uranium pursuits section of this paper."
Source: http://www.cia.gov/cia/reports/iraq_...ap4.html#sect3

As you can see, history has shown Wilson to be completely right and the Bush Administration to be completely wrong on this issue (or just liars, take your pick).
So then why does British intelligence still affirm their position that it was true?
 

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Trajan Octavian Titus said:
So then why does British intelligence still affirm their position that it was true?
I don't know. Probably for political reasons. Moreover, that dossier that "affirms their position" if you remember turned out to be at least partially forged.
 
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SouthernDemocrat said:
I don't know. Probably for political reasons. Moreover, that dossier that "affirms their position" if you remember turned out to be at least partially forged.
Bush had good reason to say those now famous words in the state of the union address check out this Factcheck.org article:

http://www.factcheck.org/article222.html

A British intelligence review released July 14 calls Bush’s 16 words “well founded.”
A separate report by the US Senate Intelligence Committee said July 7 that the US also had similar information from “a number of intelligence reports,” a fact that was classified at the time Bush spoke.
Ironically, former Ambassador Joseph Wilson, who later called Bush’s 16 words a “lie”, supplied information that the Central Intelligence Agency took as confirmation that Iraq may indeed have been seeking uranium from Niger .
Both the US and British investigations make clear that some forged Italian documents, exposed as fakes soon after Bush spoke, were not the basis for the British intelligence Bush cited, or the CIA's conclusion that Iraq was trying to get uranium.
 

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Trajan Octavian Titus said:
Bush had good reason to say those now famous words in the state of the union address check out this Factcheck.org article:

http://www.factcheck.org/article222.html
Either way, as history has shown, Wilson was right, the Bush Administration was wrong.

No stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons.

No programs to create any.

And according to the CIA not even any attempts to acquire the uranium necessary for a nuclear weapons program.

I don't know how other than historical revision and intellection dishonesty that one can argue with that.

All you guys on the right are trying to do is shoot the messenger.
 
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SouthernDemocrat said:
Either way, as history has shown, Wilson was right, the Bush Administration was wrong.

No stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons.

No programs to create any.

And according to the CIA not even any attempts to acquire the uranium necessary for a nuclear weapons program.

I don't know how other than historical revision and intellection dishonesty that one can argue with that.

All you guys on the right are trying to do is shoot the messenger.
WMD programs were found don't you remember the mobile weapons labs, and you guys on the left are trying to get Bush impeached on the basis of him lying in the State of the Union when infact he didn't lie or distort the intel it was just that the intel was wrong and Joe Wilson didn't investigate anything he sipped mint tea and talked to a few Niger officials, and if they were working with Saddam why would they tell Wison anything? Basically here's how it went down:

Joe Wilson: "Did Saddam try to buy yellow cake from you guys?"

Niger Officials: "No."

Joe Wilson: "OK I'm cool with that, it's been real but I got a flight to catch see ya."


A British intelligence review released July 14 calls Bush’s 16 words “well founded.”
A separate report by the US Senate Intelligence Committee said July 7 that the US also had similar information from “a number of intelligence reports,” a fact that was classified at the time Bush spoke.
Ironically, former Ambassador Joseph Wilson, who later called Bush’s 16 words a “lie”, supplied information that the Central Intelligence Agency took as confirmation that Iraq may indeed have been seeking uranium from Niger .
Both the US and British investigations make clear that some forged Italian documents, exposed as fakes soon after Bush spoke, were not the basis for the British intelligence Bush cited, or the CIA's conclusion that Iraq was trying to get uranium.
 

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Trajan Octavian Titus said:
So then why does British intelligence still affirm their position that it was true?
According to the Downing Street Memo the British (including Mi6) don't. I guess you probably forgot about that eh? How convenient. Gee I just love neocon apologists.

Hey, Trajan Ocatavian Titus, if you believe so deeply in the occupation of Iraq why aren't you over there fighting for your beliefs... instead of defending them with a keyboard?
 

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Trajan Octavian Titus said:
WMD programs were found don't you remember the mobile weapons labs, and you guys on the left are trying to get Bush impeached on the basis of him lying in the State of the Union when infact he didn't lie or distort the intel it was just that the intel was wrong and Joe Wilson didn't investigate anything he sipped mint tea and talked to a few Niger officials, and if they were working with Saddam why would they tell Wison anything? Basically here's how it went down:

Joe Wilson: "Did Saddam try to buy yellow cake from you guys?"

Niger Officials: "No."

Joe Wilson: "OK I'm cool with that, it's been real but I got a flight to catch see ya."


A British intelligence review released July 14 calls Bush’s 16 words “well founded.”
A separate report by the US Senate Intelligence Committee said July 7 that the US also had similar information from “a number of intelligence reports,” a fact that was classified at the time Bush spoke.
Ironically, former Ambassador Joseph Wilson, who later called Bush’s 16 words a “lie”, supplied information that the Central Intelligence Agency took as confirmation that Iraq may indeed have been seeking uranium from Niger .
Both the US and British investigations make clear that some forged Italian documents, exposed as fakes soon after Bush spoke, were not the basis for the British intelligence Bush cited, or the CIA's conclusion that Iraq was trying to get uranium.
Oh you mean those "Mobile Weapons Labs" that the CIA ruled out in 2003?????

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/04/15/sprj.irq.no.labs/

They did not exist. You are about 2 years behind the times as to how well you are informed on this one.
 

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octavious sycophantes emeritus said:
Joe Wilson: "Did Saddam try to buy yellow cake from you guys?"

Niger Officials: "No."

Joe Wilson: "OK I'm cool with that, it's been real but I got a flight to catch see ya."
Umm.. yeah. The thing is... Joe Wilson was an international diplomat. You are some numbskull defaming him on a political forum. Who has more credibility here.... Octavious or Wilson? It's a no-brainer.
 
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Archon said:
According to the Downing Street Memo the British (including Mi6) don't. I guess you probably forgot about that eh? How convenient. Gee I just love neocon apologists.

Hey, Trajan Ocatavian Titus, if you believe so deeply in the occupation of Iraq why aren't you over there fighting for your beliefs... instead of defending them with a keyboard?
I love liberal idiots who espouse that the Downing Street Memo forgery has any baring at all here's some news it's a fake it means absolutely jackshit.

I've got a memo right here that proves Bill Clinton was playing golf with O.B.L. on the morning of 9-10-2001, only problem is I got it from an annonomous source who I refuse to disclose, I made copies of the original, retyped the copies, burned the copies, and gave the original back to the annonomous source.

Next you'll be bringing up the Rather Gate memo lmfao

Why am I not in Iraq? Because I go to college, and Thomas Jefferson didn't serve in the revolutionary war, do I have to be on the Yankees to route for them winning the World Series?
 
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Archon said:
Umm.. yeah. The thing is... Joe Wilson was an international diplomat. You are some numbskull defaming him on a political forum. Who has more credibility here.... Octavious or Wilson? It's a no-brainer.
ya exactly he was a diplomat not a CIA agent steeped in the ins and outs of collecting intelligence. Who would have been more qualified to pursue the intelligence gathering; a CIA agent or a former ambassador who has publicly stated that he would never even vote for a republican for dog catcher? It's a no brainer.
 

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Trajan Octavian Titus said:
I love liberal idiots who espouse that the Downing Street Memo forgery has any baring at all here's some news it's a fake it means absolutely jackshit.

I've got a memo right here that proves Bill Clinton was playing golf with O.B.L. on the morning of 9-10-2001, only problem is I got it from an annonomous source who I refuse to disclose, I made copies of the original, retyped the copies, burned the copies, and gave the original back to the annonomous source.

Next you'll be bringing up the Rather Gate memo lmfao

Why am I not in Iraq? Because I go to college, and Thomas Jefferson didn't serve in the revolutionary war, do I have to be on the Yankees to route for them winning the World Series?
The funny thing is, mr. octavius sycophantes coeptis, is that I'm hardly liberal. Oh gee I happen to think outside of your particular belief system so by golly I must just be a left wing nut! Lol, you are the typical neoconservative apologist with your prejiducial political insinuations. In your imperious mind anyone who dares disagree with your obesquious flattery of the Bush administration is a liberal.

Perhaps you may want to spend more time trying to refute claims rather than calling anyone who disagrees with you liberal. That just doesn't bode well with people who think independently and are interested in the facts.
 
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SouthernDemocrat said:
Oh you mean those "Mobile Weapons Labs" that the CIA ruled out in 2003?????

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/04/15/sprj.irq.no.labs/

They did not exist. You are about 2 years behind the times as to how well you are informed on this one.
this article was written in April 2003 this one was written in May I'm still looking for the full report it's a government document from the State Department you know the guys who know about this stuff:

Central Intelligence Agency
Defense Intelligence Agency
28 May 2003




http://canberra.usembassy.gov/hyper/2003/0528/epf307.htm
 
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Trajan Octavian Titus said:
ya exactly he was a diplomat not a CIA agent steeped in the ins and outs of collecting intelligence. Who would have been more qualified to pursue the intelligence gathering; a CIA agent or a former ambassador who has publicly stated that he would never even vote for a republican for dog catcher? It's a no brainer.
Imitation is the highest form of flattery so I suppose I'm complimented by the fact that you are intellectual enough to mock my comment regarding Einsteins "no-brainer"

The fact still remains that no matter what you say you do not have the credibility nor the diplomatic experience that Joe Wilson does. That pisses you of doesn't it? Oh well, get as mad as you want... type until you're blue in the face..... entertain us. The facts are unconditional and will remain the same. Joe Wilson is a credible source and there is nothing any neo-con can do to change that. I dislike pseudo-conservatives like yourself even more so than I do liberals. You are not interested in the well being of our country... you are interested in the well being of the Bush administration.
 

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yet the way I have heard it reported
Wilson concluded in his report, and has stated numerous times
that Saddam never bought YellowCake from Niger
when he was sent there to actually find out if Saddam TRIED to buy it
yes it is a subtle difference, but an important one, i think, if true
 
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Archon said:
The funny thing is, mr. octavius sycophantes coeptis, is that I'm hardly liberal. Oh gee I happen to think outside of your particular belief system so by golly I must just be a left wing nut! Lol, you are the typical neoconservative apologist with your prejiducial political insinuations. In your imperious mind anyone who dares disagree with your obesquious flattery of the Bush administration is a liberal.

Perhaps you may want to spend more time trying to refute claims rather than calling anyone who disagrees with you liberal. That just doesn't bode well with people who think independently and are interested in the facts.
Hay, good job dodging the issue: The Downing Street memo is fake, Wilson didn't investigate anything and here's an update:

November 9, 2005 Bush still not impeached.

And why should I have to argue about the validity of a forged document? Doesn't bode well for you when you claim to be interested in facts yet site forgeries as evidence.
 

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DeeJayH said:
yet the way I have heard it reported
Wilson concluded in his report, and has stated numerous times
that Saddam never bought YellowCake from Niger
when he was sent there to actually find out if Saddam TRIED to buy it
yes it is a subtle difference, but an important one, i think, if true
I reckon you think that occupying and destroying a nation based upon the supposition that they have WMD, but then later doubling back and saying oh golly we just went there to liberate the people from tyrrany.. all the while blowing their world to hell............. You've got to be kidding me!
 

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Trajan Octavian Titus said:
Hay, good job dodging the issue: The Downing Street memo is fake, Wilson didn't investigate anything and here's an update:

November 9, 2005 Bush still not impeached.

And why should I have to argue about the validity of a forged document? Doesn't bode well for you when you claim to be interested in facts yet site forgeries as evidence.
Do you have anything other than your own words to back your claims? Do you think that you are the author of reality? Dear god boy I think you've gone to lunch and aren't coming back.
 
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Archon said:
Imitation is the highest form of flattery so I suppose I'm complimented by the fact that you are intellectual enough to mock my comment regarding Einsteins "no-brainer"

The fact still remains that no matter what you say you do not have the credibility nor the diplomatic experience that Joe Wilson does. That pisses you of doesn't it? Oh well, get as mad as you want... type until you're blue in the face..... entertain us. The facts are unconditional and will remain the same. Joe Wilson is a credible source and there is nothing any neo-con can do to change that. I dislike pseudo-conservatives like yourself even more so than I do liberals. You are not interested in the well being of our country... you are interested in the well being of the Bush administration.
If you call outting people on their lies intended to bring down a U.S. president during war time not supporting my country then you have your priorities upside down. But I'm sure this will fall on deaf ears of a person who cites The Downing St. memo as fact.
 

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Trajan Octavian Titus said:
Hay, good job dodging the issue: The Downing Street memo is fake, Wilson didn't investigate anything and here's an update:

November 9, 2005 Bush still not impeached.

And why should I have to argue about the validity of a forged document? Doesn't bode well for you when you claim to be interested in facts yet site forgeries as evidence.
according to Mapes (rathergate) it is not up to them to prove it is true
it is others job to prove it is false

:doh :roll:
 

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Trajan Octavian Titus said:
If you call outting people on their lies intended to bring down a U.S. president during war time not supporting my country then you have your priorities upside down. But I'm sure this will fall on deaf ears of a person who cites The Downing St. memo as fact.
I cite the downing memo as fact as does Blair... who has fallen off the face of the planet. I believe in the republican party so much that I believe they will eventually see the detriment of the neoconservatist policy that you so belligerently support.
 

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Archon said:
According to the Downing Street Memo the British (including Mi6) don't. I guess you probably forgot about that eh? How convenient. Gee I just love neocon apologists.

Hey, Trajan Ocatavian Titus, if you believe so deeply in the occupation of Iraq why aren't you over there fighting for your beliefs... instead of defending them with a keyboard?
I don't know about him but it would be an honor for me to fight for my country again.........Sadly I am to old..........

Freedom isn't free and some things are worth fighting for......Something you lefties will never understand.......
 
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Archon said:
Do you have anything other than your own words to back your claims? Do you think that you are the author of reality? Dear god boy I think you've gone to lunch and aren't coming back.
do you have any facts to back the legitimacy of the Downing St. Memo? Or are you just spouting off Air America talking points? I'm not the one who brought it up so why should I be the one to discredit it but I will:

the Downing street Memo can not be authenticated due to the fact that it is a retyped transcript of copies of the original, the copies were burned, and the original was returned to where it came from and has yet to have resurfaced and the anonomous source has not come forward. Now why should I believe this story? Give me one good reason that I should believe Michael Smith or that left wing rag The Sunday Times?
 

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Archon said:
I reckon you think that occupying and destroying a nation based upon the supposition that they have WMD, but then later doubling back and saying oh golly we just went there to liberate the people from tyrrany.. all the while blowing their world to hell............. You've got to be kidding me!
this thread pertains to WMDs solely in that is what Wilson was sent to Niger to investigate
not whether Saddam DID buy yellowcake
but rather if he TRIED to buy yellowcake
dont recall anyone saying Saddam Did buy yellowcake from Niger
but wilson says he did not buy it
he does not say he did not try to buy it
 
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