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William F. Buckley: Iraq is lost

mpg

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WFB is very intelligent, which makes his assessment discouraging. Are you sure that he was in favor of regime change in Iraq?
 

Kandahar

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He supported it until mid-2004, when he resigned from the National Review saying "If I had known what I know now, I would not have counseled for war in Iraq." Since then, his assessments have become more and more bleak, culminating today in his declaration that Iraq is a lost cause.

CORRECTION: He's still editor-at-large of the National Review, he only relinquished control of the publication.
 
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danarhea

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Kandahar said:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/Commentary/com-2_25_06_WB.html

Read what this one-time Iraq war supporter and staunch neoconservative had to say about Iraq today.

Thoughts?

I originally posted the issue last night, but lets go with your thread. I will post here what I posted there:

William F. Buckley, a well known intellectual in the Conservative community, said long ago that bringing Iraq into our sphere of influence by military means would just not work. This was the rational of George Bush Sr. when he pulled the troops just short of Baghdad, and chose to contain Saddam, rather than overthrow him. A power vacuum which could destabilize the Middle East was not acceptable.

15 years later, we now see the wisdom of the President's father, as US forces are now attempting the impossible task of containing a civil war between Sunni and Shia factions, as Iraq moves into Iran's sphere of influence, as the rebuilding of Iraq has become a dismal failure, as US deficits tumble out of control, and as our soldiers keep bleeding and dying.

Buckley and the Paleocons are no longer alone in their assessment of the war in Iraq. They are being joined now by a growing number of Neocons, who have come to the same conclusion. The bombshell statement of Francis Fwkiyama (replace the w, which was inserted to circumvent the censosrship software, with a u) that Neoconservatism is dead, was only the beginning.

Now, Reuel Marc Gerecht, who is an American Enterprise Institute fellow, agrees. He says that, with the Sunnis leaving the Iraqi government, this war cannot be won. However, Paleoconservatives, and sensible Conservatives such as Bush's father, have already known this fact for 15 years.

The Iraqi experiment conceived by PNAC, which according to them, would make America stronger, has actually weakend our nation. Neocons are finally seeing this fact, and are leaving the movement. Defeat is not always a bad thing. If it is the defeat of a flawed policy, it can be good, provided we learn from that defeat. Let us learn from this experience, and once the Neocons are gone from government, let us make a vow as a nation never to let our leaders hijack us into another unneeded war, and let us rebuild, not only the trust and credibility we have lost with the rest of the world, but also the Consitutional principles upon which America was founded. It will take much work. It is time to roll up our sleeves.

Article is here.
 

Kandahar

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To correct a couple of your points, Buckley originally supported the war in Iraq. And I wouldn't call him a "paleoconservative." He's not a Pat Buchanan type, by any means.

But yeah, I think Buckley's assessment really shows that the current strategy in Iraq is losing supporters rapidly. I think it's time we pursue a "garrison strategy," where we don't actually withdraw but we limit our presence to some military bases. That way we'll be able to have a launching point for an assault on Iran without having to fight the insurgency in Iraq.
 
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danarhea

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Kandahar said:
To correct a couple of your points, Buckley originally supported the war in Iraq. And I wouldn't call him a "paleoconservative." He's not a Pat Buchanan type, by any means.

But yeah, I think Buckley's assessment really shows that the current strategy in Iraq is losing supporters rapidly.
Buckley did support the war, but said back then that the outcome would not be the rosy picture that the administration had painted. Buckley also supported Bush Sr's decision to pull back from going all the way to Baghdad during the Gulf War.

By the way, Buckley's strategy to limit our presence to a few bases is what Murtha proposed.
 

Missouri Mule

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I think Buckley's views are important but his day is past and he doesn't have the same mental sharpness he once had. For a more unbiased view I would look to what David Brooks of the NYT has to say. And Thomas Friedman. One on the left and one on the right. It may come down to a partitioning of Iraq and that may not necessarily be a bad thing.
 

danarhea

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Missouri Mule said:
I think Buckley's views are important but his day is past and he doesn't have the same mental sharpness he once had. For a more unbiased view I would look to what David Brooks of the NYT has to say. And Thomas Friedman. One on the left and one on the right. It may come down to a partitioning of Iraq and that may not necessarily be a bad thing.

That worked in Yugoslavia, to an extent. Fact is that Shia, Sunni, and Kurd are not going to be able to work together. The hatred between these groups goes all the way back to the Middle Ages.
 
H

hipsterdufus

Missouri Mule said:
I think Buckley's views are important but his day is past and he doesn't have the same mental sharpness he once had. For a more unbiased view I would look to what David Brooks of the NYT has to say. And Thomas Friedman. One on the left and one on the right. It may come down to a partitioning of Iraq and that may not necessarily be a bad thing.

Thomas Friedman is hardly a voice of the left. Personally I loathe Friedman and his neoliberal globalization gobbledygook. I think he's worse than an idiot. He's an intelligent ignoramus, and a lazy one to boot. From the NYT, I'll take Krugman or Rich anyday. Friedman is out to keep himself important by rocking no boats.
 

Deegan

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hipsterdufus said:
Thomas Friedman is hardly a voice of the left. Personally I loathe Friedman and his neoliberal globalization gobbledygook. I think he's worse than an idiot. He's an intelligent ignoramus, and a lazy one to boot. From the NYT, I'll take Krugman or Rich anyday. Friedman is out to keep himself important by rocking no boats.

LOL, that's why I like and respect you professor, you make absolutely no bones about you political leanings, nor do you apologize for those views. That said, I don't know how you can possibly suggest he "rocks no boats" at the NYT, they must hate that man, he truly must have to examine his food order with more then a second glance at that work place!:rofl
 
H

hipsterdufus

Deegan said:
LOL, that's why I like and respect you professor, you make absolutely no bones about you political leanings, nor do you apologize for those views. That said, I don't know how you can possibly suggest he "rocks no boats" at the NYT, they must hate that man, he truly must have to examine his food order with more then a second glance at that work place!:rofl

Good point Deegan - that's probably why Friedman is overseas so much: no one at the NYT can stand him. I'm sure he packs a lunch and eats alone at his desk when he's there. :lol:

I had to resist the temptation to through a shoe at the TV whem TF was lobbing softballs at Stephen Hadley on Face The Nation. That's the kind of milktoast, Larry Kingish stuff that drives me nuts from Friedman.
 

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danarhea said:
The Iraqi experiment conceived by PNAC, which according to them, would make America stronger, has actually weakend our nation. Neocons are finally seeing this fact, and are leaving the movement. Defeat is not always a bad thing. If it is the defeat of a flawed policy, it can be good, provided we learn from that defeat. Let us learn from this experience, and once the Neocons are gone from government, let us make a vow as a nation never to let our leaders hijack us into another unneeded war, and let us rebuild, not only the trust and credibility we have lost with the rest of the world, but also the Consitutional principles upon which America was founded. It will take much work. It is time to roll up our sleeves.
We should have been able to learn from Russias failed occupation of Afghanistan. We are now on the same road to bankruptcy that they were.
 

faminedynasty

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scottyz said:
We should have been able to learn from Russias failed occupation of Afghanistan. We are now on the same road to bankruptcy that they were.
Agreed. Isn't it embarassing and sickening when the idiocy of our administration makes the predicitions/goals/dreams of Osama Bin Laden come true?
 

Captain America

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At the risk of redundancy, I will say it yet again.

It matters not if the US military is in Iraq for 10 more minutes or 10 more years. As soon as we are gone, the whole country will break out in an all out civil war and anything we may have accomplished over there (whether real or imagined) will have been for naught.:roll:

I say we ought to stay there just long enough for our oil companies to pull their billions of dollars worth of oil equipment out of there, then back our troops out and just them have at it.

Why procrastinate at the cost of taxpayer dollars and American lives?

As bad of an as***** dictator that Saddam was, I'm starting to think the place was better off with him in power. They deserve whatever they get. I heard it said best yesterday on TV. "At least when Saddam was in charge, everyone knew that if any killing was to be done, Saddam was going to be the one to do it."

Start the pull out now. Why prolong the inevitable? They will NEVER become like us. Why force them too?
 

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I think Buckley's views are important but his day is past and he doesn't have the same mental sharpness he once had. For a more unbiased view I would look to what David Brooks of the NYT has to say. And Thomas Friedman. One on the left and one on the right. It may come down to a partitioning of Iraq and that may not necessarily be a bad thing.

Why is it when someone conservatives respect takes a different side then them, conservatives call them senile or mentally unstable? Can anyone explain that?
 

Simon W. Moon

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Captain America said:
I say we ought to stay there just long enough for our oil companies to pull their billions of dollars worth of oil equipment out of there, then back our troops out and just them have at it.
Last I heard, the "Big Oil" companies wouldn't put their money into Iraq yet. Too unstable. The money that's in Iraq is American tax dollars.

Have they decided to invest billions in a war-torn country?
 

Simon W. Moon

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FinnMacCool said:
Why is it when someone conservatives respect takes a different side then them, conservatives call them senile or mentally unstable? Can anyone explain that?
It's faster and easier to dismiss someone w/ ad homs than it is to address the content of an argument.
 

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I used to like Buckley a lot but he is no longer the spokesman for the right.......That has fallen to George Will and William Saffire...............

Oh and hips the only issue that Friedman is agreement with the administration is Iraq............On every other issue he is as far left as any of your whacked out leaders.........
 

Simon W. Moon

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Navy Pride said:
I used to like Buckley a lot but he is no longer the spokesman for the right.
That would be because so much of what is "the right" these days is yesterday's leftist.
 

Navy Pride

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Simon W. Moon said:
That would be because so much of what is "the right" these days is yesterday's leftist.

Your going to have to expound on that one to me.....:confused:
 

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FinnMacCool said:
Why is it when someone conservatives respect takes a different side then them, conservatives call them senile or mentally unstable? Can anyone explain that?
Michael Moore and Cindy Sheehan brainwashed him. His opinion is no longer valid.
 

Simon W. Moon

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Navy Pride

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Simon W. Moon said:
Oh you know, things like promoting big-government at home and thinking that massive federal govt intervention is a solution to societal ills. You know classic liberal thinking like that.

For what it's worth, George Will says, "We're in trouble in Iraq ... We are suffering the consequences of inadequate preparation ..."

And who are the Conservative leaders that are promoting big govenment and federal Gov intervention? Please don't say President Bush becuase in no way is he a fiscal conservative...........

George will is probably right to a certain extent.........
 
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