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Will we ever accept weed as a social norm?

Alcohol screws people up a lot more than pot ....
That's probably true, after all it is a safe drug. However the fact remains that when you smoke it you get stoned. Few if any smoke for the taste or to seek a mild sensation. Alcohol in moderation doesn't have the debilitating effect, and folks from most cultures enjoy it for a many reasons. Some even use it in religious ceremony.
 
Weed is already accepted as a social norm in some circles. I think the better question would be if having manners and a respect for others ever be accepted as a social norm again. We do not have enough productive people in our society to counterbalance the moochers should we ever legalize weed.
 
Today at work one of our best operators got the results back from his UA. He failed and under our companies zero tolerance rule was fired immediately. No chance to contest or opportunity to retest. He is 53 years old and his wife is terminally ill and now he is without a job and health insurance. The results came back positive for marijuana. This guy is a friend of mine and he was a major asset to our company. I think this zero tolerance policy sucks. And I also think he is an idiot for risking his job. He had almost 20 years with the company with great benifits including a pension plan. I would love to smoke a joint every now and then but Im not going to risk my job over it.
 
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Today at work one of our best operators got the results back from his UA. He failed and under our companies zero tolerance rule was fired immediately. No chance to contest or opportunity to retest. He is 53 years old and his wife is terminally ill and now he is without a job and health insurance. The results came back positive for marijuana. This guy is a friend of mine and he was a major asset to our company. I think this zero tolerance policy sucks. And I also think he is an idiot for risking his job. He had almost 20 years with the company with great benifits including a pension plan. I would love to smoke a joint every now and then but Im not going to risk my job over it.

Guy sounds like an idiot.
 
Today at work one of our best operators got the results back from his UA. He failed and under our companies zero tolerance rule was fired immediately. No chance to contest or opportunity to retest. He is 53 years old and his wife is terminally ill and now he is without a job and health insurance. The results came back positive for marijuana. This guy is a friend of mine and he was a major asset to our company. I think this zero tolerance policy sucks. And I also think he is an idiot for risking his job. He had almost 20 years with the company with great benifits including a pension plan. I would love to smoke a joint every now and then but Im not going to risk my job over it.

That sucks. What a stupid policy.
 
Why would a guy risk losing a pension and retirement benefits just to get stoned?

Because getting stoned must be worth ruining your life over.

He knew the consequences, he chose to take the risk. He chose his fate.
 
Today at work one of our best operators got the results back from his UA. He failed and under our companies zero tolerance rule was fired immediately. No chance to contest or opportunity to retest. He is 53 years old and his wife is terminally ill and now he is without a job and health insurance. The results came back positive for marijuana. This guy is a friend of mine and he was a major asset to our company. I think this zero tolerance policy sucks. And I also think he is an idiot for risking his job. He had almost 20 years with the company with great benifits including a pension plan. I would love to smoke a joint every now and then but Im not going to risk my job over it.

Am not so quick to refer to him as an idiot .
What this does show you is that some can indulge in pot and still be a very productive member of society. Same with alcohol.
But unfortunately we live in a country of some of the weakest people in history it seems. If you look at the prevalent number of obese people it shows you that we are so weak we can't pull the fork away from our fat faces. Even if he is able to have an occasional smoke there are so many who would be stoned 24/7.
Yes, it sucks.
 
I would say that "socially acceptable" is more than just how many people have tried something or do it on a regular basis. I would say more to the line it's more do people think it's bad, or maybe better is it ok that someone does X. In that line, I think we'd fine that marijuana is more socially acceptable beyond the number of people who partake. I certainly know many people who've done drugs and many who've not. And the vast majority of those people don't have ill feelings towards people that smoke weed. Now that's not absolute proof and doesn't speak to the aggregated statistics. It may very well be that there is still an overall very negative attitude towards weed and its consumption. But maybe not so much as one may think off hand.

I think its less than one may think off hand, I just don't think its AS socially acceptable as Alcohol is even with the under reporting that is likely to be going on.
 
The problem with weed is that when you smoke you do so to get stoned. That's not the same as booze which simply relaxes you in moderation and only gets you stoned if you drink to excess.

That's nice, but we're getting off point, which is that pot is used to get high, unlike booze that is beneficial in moderation.

First, nice generalization on telling people what they do for what reasons.

Second, drinking alcohol to any level where it has an affect on you is in affect becoming intoxicated, be it midly, moderately, greatly, or severely. "Drunk", "Buzzed", "Wasted", etc are terms that have essentially came about to differentiate in the levels of intoxication in common vernacular due to the persistance and exposure of alcohol within the public sphere for so many decades. For example, in the U.S. a person is "Drunk" if they have a BAC of over .08 not because they are "acting like a jackass".

In both cases the drug of choice is typically used to the point of intoxication, at which point the "beneficial" affects start happening. If one is recieving beneficial affects prior to intoxication those are not due to the actual drug but are mental factors of your body reacting to the notion of using said item, and those can exist with both of them. From what research I've done real quick (i'm by no means an expert and I don't smoke) it appears that, much like the alcohol content of liquor, the amount of THC in a particular type of pot and how much of that THC enters your body is what determines whether or not you get high, how strong of a high it is, and how long it will last which is then altered by your own body makeup (Much like with alcohol).

Part of the issue is they are not congruent. For example I don't think you can just take any particular joint and try to go 1 joint = having 1 beer. Trying to pidgeon whole it into such a thing, especially based on current standards for both, would be rather foolish. It also seems that in general weed is more likely to get you to a relatively moderately intoxicated status faster than Alcohol while Alcoholo has the greater potential to go to greater and severe levels of intoxication than Marijuana has.

In both cases, getting intoxicated (Be it "buzzed/drunk" or "high"), have non-health related beneficial affects. For alcohol, it can lower inhibitions (though to what degree is uncertain in low or moderate intoxication levels due to tests with palcebo's). It can also produce feeling sof cheerfulness or relaxiation, though the latter is often at odds with its affect of causing speech and movement to become more animated. These are generally the "positive" social benefits attributed to Alcohol.

However Pot ALSO has positive social aspects. Pot can also aid relaxation and stress reduction. It can also help cause the person to be more jovial. Along with this there are a number of studied subjective benefits that differ per person such as increased appreciation of humor, music, and art. Additionally an enhancement of tastes or aroma's along with an increase in senusality and sensation awareness.

That's probably true, after all it is a safe drug. However the fact remains that when you smoke it you get stoned. Few if any smoke for the taste or to seek a mild sensation. Alcohol in moderation doesn't have the debilitating effect, and folks from most cultures enjoy it for a many reasons. Some even use it in religious ceremony.

The issue with your above statement is its based off the current culture which is in and of itself a black market one; unregulated and illegal. Think back to the days of Prohibition when you had moonshine as your primary liquor of choice. When something is illegal and possibly troublesome for you to indulge in any of it you're less likely to simply indulge in it for a singular reason (such as just taste) nor partake in just a little bit of it (such as just having a few puffs) nor look for a lower potency. If you get caught, you're getting in trouble no matter what, so may as well get the most out of it.

This could very well change if it became legalized, businesses started popping up around it, laws were made reflecting a balance between its legality and public safety, and a market was formed. There's no telling if we'd start seeing much like with Alcohol instances where different brands are made at varying degree's of potency, sizes, and tastes catering to different people and their desires. There's nothing saying that if it was legal that a person who would normally now once every two weeks get a good amount of the stuff and just smoke all night would not instead choose to head out to a lounge a few days a week for an hour to partake in a small relatively mild joint that gives him a short high and relaxes him after a day of work while listening to some music before heading home. To me this would be no different than someon stopping at the neighborhood bar for an hour for a drink after work.

Again, I think you're trying to act like two things are absolutely identical in use and in situation and attempting to compare them in a 1:1 ratio. Have a 8oz glass of Everclear and an 8oz glass of Miller Light and tell me that the affects are the same. I just think you're incorrectly not taking into account history of similar substances, the market, and the current legality of it when determining what it would be like if it was legal.

Getting drunk to get drunk is not socially acceptable, unless society itself is degraded.

You're right, few adults seem to go out to "drink to get drunk". They go out to drink to become more "relaxed" and "open up" and "lower inhibitions" while going to a club or a bar to dance or hit on girls which is essentially a more refined way of "I'm going to go get drunk."

There's not a bar or a club I've ever been too in the evening where the majority of the patrons there were not intoxicated. The difference is once you get out of college most people realize "WOOO Lets go get drunk" sound juvenile so it simply switches to "Woo, lets hit up the bar for some drinks and go find some ladies/go dance" yet the whole reason they're going to go have those drinks is to get intoxicated to get the affects which will they believe aid them in the later desires.
 
It already is. I even know a girl with a cop boyfriend who smokes it at her place. No one except stupid elitists who've never seen it in their life actually gives a crap about it anymore. All we need to do is change the law books.
 
I do think, however, there are occupations that do require a zero tolerance policy. Such as pilots, (or other military positions) surgeons, or any other occupation that requires 100% focus when someone else's life might be hanging the balance. And, that being said, is not to say that even a surgeon or a pilot couldn't moderately partake in their off-time and be just as efficient as the next one who does not. No, it's more for what I call the "baby-sitting" factor. Because in every walk of life there is ALWAYS that very small percentage of humankind that abuses liberties. And because of those few irresponsible people, the whole occupation must suffer the consequence because we simply cannot chance it when lives are at stake.

But in the more civillian world, in a less critical occupation, I don't see why any responsible, tax-paying, otherwise law-abiding, good citizen should not be allowed to partake of either marijuana or alcohol, in their own free-time, without worrying about the lingering consequences. Pot stays in your system a long time. You can get high on Saturday and get popped for it two weeks later. Just don't add up.

Unless.... the insurance price break for enforcing a zero-tolerance is so attractive it convinces the employers to sell out the freedom and liberty of their employees even at the risk of valuable losses such as the subject of this thread.

You know, my band has a "zero-tolerance" drinking policy before and during the show. Why? Is it because we can't tip a few back and still perform good enough to please our audience? No. It is because every 3 or 4 months, or so, one band member or another has "one too many" and it affects their performance, thus affecting the band. Then comes the drama. So we figured, since we can't seemed to be consistant with the moderation, and we were not able, and did not want to, have to babysit each other to make sure one or the other didn't go overboard on the drinking, we all agreed, NONE.

But after the show...... well, that's a whole 'nother talk show. :)
 
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I do think, however, there are occupations that do require a zero tolerance policy. Such as pilots, (or other military positions) surgeons, or any other occupation that requires 100% focus when someone else's life might be hanging the balance. And, that being said, is not to say that even a surgeon or a pilot couldn't moderately partake in their off-time and be just as efficient as the next one who does not. No, it's more for what I call the "baby-sitting" factor. Because in every walk of life there is ALWAYS that very small percentage of humankind that abuses liberties. And because of those few irresponsible people, the whole occupation must suffer the consequence because we simply cannot chance it when lives are at stake.

But in the more civillian world, in a less critical occupation, I don't see why any responsible, tax-paying, otherwise law-abiding, good citizen should not be allowed to partake of either marijuana or alcohol, in their own free-time, without worrying about the lingering consequences. Pot stays in your system a long time. You can get high on Saturday and get popped for it two weeks later. Just don't add up.

Unless.... the insurance price break for enforcing a zero-tolerance is so attractive it convinces the employers to sell out the freedom and liberty of their employees even at the risk of valuable losses such as the subject of this thread.

You know, my band has a "zero-tolerance" drinking policy before and during the show. Why? Is it because we can't tip a few back and still perform good enough to please our audience? No. It is because every 3 or 4 months, or so, one band member or another has "one too many" and it affects their performance, thus affecting the band. Then comes the drama. So we figured, since we can't seemed to be consistant with the moderation, and we were not able, and did not want to, have to babysit each other to make sure one or the other didn't go overboard on the drinking, we all agreed, NONE.

But after the show...... well, that's a whole 'nother talk show. :)

I agree with this post.

It's horse crap that insurance companies are doing this. I wonder how people would feel they could lose their job for high blood sugar or cholesterol.

I see drug testing only being necessary in the careers you mentioned and those of that nature. For Walmart employees it really doesn't matter.
 
I think my ability to put things in perspective and "sum it all up" has a tendancy to kill threads.

My bad. Sorry folks. :3oops:

Please. Do carry on.
 
I think my ability to put things in perspective and "sum it all up" has a tendancy to kill threads.

My bad. Sorry folks. :3oops:

Please. Do carry on.

I know people who get high daily and they are still responsible people at home and work.

The same goes for Prozac. ;)
 
Hey! I resemble that remark! :shock:
 
High blood pressure and high cholesterol can be problems from genetics as much as bad habits.

Smoking pot is a choice.
 
High blood pressure and high cholesterol can be problems from genetics as much as bad habits.

Smoking pot is a choice.

I said high blood sugar. And yes, it may be genetic, but they should make responsible choices to manage that.
 
Regardless, one doesn't smoke pot because its genetic.
Not comparable.

Not all health issues are genetic. It's irrelevant. They could rule out genetics and then demand that people be fired or pay a steeper fee.
 
Not all health issues are genetic. It's irrelevant. They could rule out genetics and then demand that people be fired or pay a steeper fee.

Actually, the entire idea of bringing up the health issues was irrelevant.
 
Actually, the entire idea of bringing up the health issues was irrelevant.

That's the justification for insurance companies giving discounts for drug use policies.
 
That's the justification for insurance companies giving discounts for drug use policies.

When you prove that insurance companies giving discounts is the only reason why companies have drug use policies then you will have proven your point.

You can, however, state it is your opinion.
 
When you prove that insurance companies giving discounts is the only reason why companies have drug use policies then you will have proven your point.

You can, however, state it is your opinion.

For many companies, yes. In fact, it is the increase in health insurance premiums that have many businesses looking to cut costs wherever possible.

But no, it's not the only reason. There are plenty. Safety, trustworthiness, and character are three that come to mind immediately. I think the last two definitely aren't guarantees they are bad though, with regards to marijuana.
 
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