Will Putin blow up the world because of ......little bitty Finland?

[soap box]

Finland and Sweden are considering their entry into NATO. Our support of their entry depends on 2/3 of the U.S. Senate to agree. Will the U.S. Senate agree to allow these two countries to join?

Rueters , April 14, 2022
https://www.reuters.com/world/europ...pons-baltic-region-says-lithuania-2022-04-14/

"One of Russian President Vladimir Putin's closest allies warned NATO on Thursday that if Sweden and Finland joined the U.S.-led military alliance then Russia would have to bolster its defenses in the region, including by deploying nuclear weapons"

AP , March 3, 2022

Neutral Finland, Sweden warm to idea of NATO membership

HELSINKI (AP) — Through the Cold War and the decades since, nothing could persuade Finns and Swedes that they would be better off joining NATO — until now. Russia’s invasion of Ukraine has profoundly changed Europe’s security outlook , including for Nordic neutrals Finland and Sweden, where...

apnews.com

"Finnish Prime Minister Sanna Marin said this week that her Social Democratic Party would discuss possible NATO membership with other parties but didn’t set a time frame. She said everyone agrees that the events of the past weeks have been a game-changer.

“Together we see that the security situation has changed remarkably since Russia attacked Ukraine. It is a fact that we have to acknowledge,” Marin said.

Washington Post, April 12, 2022 (please forgive the paywall)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/04/12/nato-finland-sweden-trump/

"Expanding the alliance has been a consensus issue — and even a unanimous one in 2003-2004 — but Russia’s invasion of Ukraine brings into stark relief the prospect of perceived provocation that critics had warned about."

The concern is that Putin will perceive a greater threat than he already does. The Kremlin has already suggested that nuclear weapons close to the border with Lithuania may be reinforced if this goes forward. And then we might consider our ex-president. It's possible that this is a litmus test of loyalty to trump, who recently claimed on the Hannity hour,
“I think in a hundred years, people are gonna look back and they’re going to say, ‘How did we stand back, and NATO stand back?’—which, in many ways, I’ve called a paper tiger. Don’t forget, I rebuilt NATO. blah blah la de da..... "“I will tell you, we talked about it, we talked about it a lot, he did want Ukraine, but I said, ‘You’re not going into Ukraine.’ He would never, ever have gone into Ukraine [on my watch].” more blah blah blah....
"We changed a lot of that around, but they were very tough on trade. I asked Angela Merkel, ‘How many Chevrolets are you selling this month in Munich or Berlin?’ And she looked at me and [said,] ‘Well, probably none.’ And I said, ‘You’re exactly right. None.’"

Will the U.S. Senate allow Finland and Sweden to join NATO?
Do you support Nato membership for these Nordic countries?
Will trump play a role in this situation?

 

[Hamish Howl]

No way does 2/3rds of the senate agree.

No chance in hell.

Too many people owned outright by Putin.

 

[btthegreat]

Finland and Sweden are considering their entry into NATO. Our support of their entry depends on 2/3 of the U.S. Senate to agree. Will the U.S. Senate agree to allow these two countries to join?

Rueters , April 14, 2022
https://www.reuters.com/world/europ...pons-baltic-region-says-lithuania-2022-04-14/

"One of Russian President Vladimir Putin's closest allies warned NATO on Thursday that if Sweden and Finland joined the U.S.-led military alliance then Russia would have to bolster its defenses in the region, including by deploying nuclear weapons"

AP , March 3, 2022

Neutral Finland, Sweden warm to idea of NATO membership

HELSINKI (AP) — Through the Cold War and the decades since, nothing could persuade Finns and Swedes that they would be better off joining NATO — until now. Russia’s invasion of Ukraine has profoundly changed Europe’s security outlook , including for Nordic neutrals Finland and Sweden, where...

apnews.com

"Finnish Prime Minister Sanna Marin said this week that her Social Democratic Party would discuss possible NATO membership with other parties but didn’t set a time frame. She said everyone agrees that the events of the past weeks have been a game-changer.

“Together we see that the security situation has changed remarkably since Russia attacked Ukraine. It is a fact that we have to acknowledge,” Marin said.

Washington Post, April 12, 2022 (please forgive the paywall)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/04/12/nato-finland-sweden-trump/

"Expanding the alliance has been a consensus issue — and even a unanimous one in 2003-2004 — but Russia’s invasion of Ukraine brings into stark relief the prospect of perceived provocation that critics had warned about."

The concern is that Putin will perceive a greater threat than he already does. The Kremlin has already suggested that nuclear weapons close to the border with Lithuania may be reinforced if this goes forward. And then we might consider our ex-president. It's possible that this is a litmus test of loyalty to trump, who recently claimed on the Hannity hour,
“I think in a hundred years, people are gonna look back and they’re going to say, ‘How did we stand back, and NATO stand back?’—which, in many ways, I’ve called a paper tiger. Don’t forget, I rebuilt NATO. blah blah la de da..... "“I will tell you, we talked about it, we talked about it a lot, he did want Ukraine, but I said, ‘You’re not going into Ukraine.’ He would never, ever have gone into Ukraine [on my watch].” more blah blah blah....
"We changed a lot of that around, but they were very tough on trade. I asked Angela Merkel, ‘How many Chevrolets are you selling this month in Munich or Berlin?’ And she looked at me and [said,] ‘Well, probably none.’ And I said, ‘You’re exactly right. None.’"

Will the U.S. Senate allow Finland and Sweden to join NATO?
Do you support Nato membership for these Nordic countries?
Will trump play a role in this situation?

Yes I do, and now is the time to do it. He's actually just threatening to put some of those weapons a little closer to targets than they are now. Putin has a lot on his plate. Very very busy with more pressing concerns. As I said elsewhere its time for a state dinner at the White House with invitations to the Prime Minister and the President of these respective Nordic countries. Actually I think the votes might just be sitting in the Senate.

 

[Emily L]

I really hope the Senate allows it.

I hate the idea of World War III. But I also hate the idea of a Hitleresque idiot (Putin) getting a free pass by threatening nuclear war unless everybody allows him to invade any country he wants.

There's already talk of all of Europe boycotting Russian oil, which would essentially kill off Russia's economy. I'm for that, too.

Gosh, I hate that Russian scumbag.

 

[MaryP]

No way does 2/3rds of the senate agree.

No chance in hell.

Too many people owned outright by Putin.

Of course they will agree.

 

[Gateman_Wen]

Finland and Sweden are considering their entry into NATO. Our support of their entry depends on 2/3 of the U.S. Senate to agree. Will the U.S. Senate agree to allow these two countries to join?

Rueters , April 14, 2022
https://www.reuters.com/world/europ...pons-baltic-region-says-lithuania-2022-04-14/

"One of Russian President Vladimir Putin's closest allies warned NATO on Thursday that if Sweden and Finland joined the U.S.-led military alliance then Russia would have to bolster its defenses in the region, including by deploying nuclear weapons"

AP , March 3, 2022

Neutral Finland, Sweden warm to idea of NATO membership

HELSINKI (AP) — Through the Cold War and the decades since, nothing could persuade Finns and Swedes that they would be better off joining NATO — until now. Russia’s invasion of Ukraine has profoundly changed Europe’s security outlook , including for Nordic neutrals Finland and Sweden, where...

apnews.com

"Finnish Prime Minister Sanna Marin said this week that her Social Democratic Party would discuss possible NATO membership with other parties but didn’t set a time frame. She said everyone agrees that the events of the past weeks have been a game-changer.

“Together we see that the security situation has changed remarkably since Russia attacked Ukraine. It is a fact that we have to acknowledge,” Marin said.

Washington Post, April 12, 2022 (please forgive the paywall)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/04/12/nato-finland-sweden-trump/

"Expanding the alliance has been a consensus issue — and even a unanimous one in 2003-2004 — but Russia’s invasion of Ukraine brings into stark relief the prospect of perceived provocation that critics had warned about."

The concern is that Putin will perceive a greater threat than he already does. The Kremlin has already suggested that nuclear weapons close to the border with Lithuania may be reinforced if this goes forward. And then we might consider our ex-president. It's possible that this is a litmus test of loyalty to trump, who recently claimed on the Hannity hour,
“I think in a hundred years, people are gonna look back and they’re going to say, ‘How did we stand back, and NATO stand back?’—which, in many ways, I’ve called a paper tiger. Don’t forget, I rebuilt NATO. blah blah la de da..... "“I will tell you, we talked about it, we talked about it a lot, he did want Ukraine, but I said, ‘You’re not going into Ukraine.’ He would never, ever have gone into Ukraine [on my watch].” more blah blah blah....
"We changed a lot of that around, but they were very tough on trade. I asked Angela Merkel, ‘How many Chevrolets are you selling this month in Munich or Berlin?’ And she looked at me and [said,] ‘Well, probably none.’ And I said, ‘You’re exactly right. None.’"

Will the U.S. Senate allow Finland and Sweden to join NATO?
Do you support Nato membership for these Nordic countries?
Will trump play a role in this situation?

It's kind of an open question whether its actually required that the senate approve it. It's not written anywhere, its a verbal thing truman did back in 1949. Yes the senate has been asked to "advise and consent" for each expansion but it's more of a polite tradition than a requirement.

 

[Gateman_Wen]

Of course they will agree.

I really hope you're right.

 

[Rexedgar]

How many of the other NATO member have to be on board?

How many no votes does it take to keep a new member out?

 

[soap box]

I really hope the Senate allows it.

I hate the idea of World War III. But I also hate the idea of a Hitleresque idiot (Putin) getting a free pass by threatening nuclear war unless everybody allows him to invade any country he wants.

There's already talk of all of Europe boycotting Russian oil, which would essentially kill off Russia's economy. I'm for that, too.

Gosh, I hate that Russian scumbag.

Howdy Emily L 😊
I agree completely, and we hate the idea of WWII, there was bumper sticker when I was a kid, " just one atomic bomb can ruin your whole day" ,
And I posted something when the war started that compared Putin to Hitler and I was amazed that a few members disagreed, but that's how opinions go.

But want to go off topic for a moment, I couldn't help but notice your picture today, I was in an antique store and I found Let It Be for $5. I thought WOW this is great. When I got home I googled it bc I couldn't remember the year it came out. I found out along the search that it was the most counterfeited LP of all time ! So I took a closer look and realized my copy was a fake!!! At first I was disappointed, but now it has huge value to me, not in dollars, but only in my own head because it's this funny artifact of pop culture history 😊

Ahem, now back to work everybody !

 

[soap box]

How many of the other NATO member have to be on board?

How many no votes does it take to keep a new member out?

If I get a chance later today I will try to find out, yes, pertinent questions

 

[soap box]

It's kind of an open question whether its actually required that the senate approve it. It's not written anywhere, its a verbal thing truman did back in 1949. Yes the senate has been asked to "advise and consent" for each expansion but it's more of a polite tradition than a requirement.

Let me check on that, hope you don't mind my doubt, I had a different understanding of it, I'll get back to you on it.

 

[Rexedgar]

If I get a chance later today I will try to find out, yes, pertinent questions

According to what I found out, the NATO membership vote has to be unanimous. I wonder what Hungary and maybe Turkey would do with Sweden and Finland.

“NATO’s “open door policy” is based on Article 10 of the Alliance’s founding document, the North Atlantic Treaty (1949). The Treaty states that NATO membership is open to any “European state in a position to further the principles of this Treaty and to contribute to the security of the North Atlantic area”. It states that any decision on enlargement must be made “by unanimous agreement”.

https://www.nato.int/nato_static_fl2014/assets/pdf/pdf_2016_07/20160627_1607-factsheet-enlargement-eng.pdf

 

[Emily L]

But want to go off topic for a moment, I couldn't help but notice your picture today, I was in an antique store and I found Let It Be for $5. I thought WOW this is great. When I got home I googled it bc I couldn't remember the year it came out. I found out along the search that it was the most counterfeited LP of all time ! So I took a closer look and realized my copy was a fake!!! At first I was disappointed, but now it has huge value to me, not in dollars, but only in my own head because it's this funny artifact of pop culture history 😊

That's funny, Soap! It might actually be worth money as an artifact!

In movies and TV shows, the plot sometimes involves famous paintings that turn out to be forgeries done by crooked artists. But I've always thought that such phony masterpieces would be worth something, since it did take a certain degree of talent to create them. But maybe that's like looking for money in a trash can.

 

[Litwin]

Of course they will agree.

yes

 

[Gateman_Wen]

Let me check on that, hope you don't mind my doubt, I had a different understanding of it, I'll get back to you on it.

Some info for you.

NATO Enlargement: Senate Advice and Consent

On July 21, 1949, the Senate gave its advice and consent to ratification of the North Atlantic Treaty. That treaty bound twelve...

www.everycrsreport.com

 

[soap box]

According to what I found out, the NATO membership vote has to be unanimous. I wonder what Hungary and maybe Turkey would do with Sweden and Finland.

“NATO’s “open door policy” is based on Article 10 of the Alliance’s founding document, the North Atlantic Treaty (1949). The Treaty states that NATO membership is open to any “European state in a position to further the principles of this Treaty and to contribute to the security of the North Atlantic area”. It states that any decision on enlargement must be made “by unanimous agreement”.

https://www.nato.int/nato_static_fl2014/assets/pdf/pdf_2016_07/20160627_1607-factsheet-enlargement-eng.pdf

That's a dilemma. Is NATO so diverse now that a consensus will become harder, it's not so easy to reach anymore.

And if political pressure in Turkey and Hungary drifts against admitting the new members , it won't matter at all what our senators vote.

I see your point there, I was most concerned that only 4 GOP senators would be likely to vote to include . 67 Senators haven't agreed on much and not in a while anyway. Thanks for the post, that helps.

Still, what if the U.S. Senate votes before Turkey or Hungary announces their intentions. will we see who in the GOP will vote on very partisan lines?

 

[soap box]

Some info for you.

NATO Enlargement: Senate Advice and Consent

On July 21, 1949, the Senate gave its advice and consent to ratification of the North Atlantic Treaty. That treaty bound twelve...

www.everycrsreport.com

" Each enlargement of NATO has raised the question of whether Senate advice and consent is necessary. "

Well there ya go.
I stand corrected !

 

[MaryP]

That's a dilemma. Is NATO so diverse now that a consensus will become harder, it's not so easy to reach anymore.

And if political pressure in Turkey and Hungary drifts against admitting the new members , it won't matter at all what our senators vote.

I see your point there, I was most concerned that only 4 GOP senators would be likely to vote to include . 67 Senators haven't agreed on much and not in a while anyway. Thanks for the post, that helps.

Still, what if the U.S. Senate votes before Turkey or Hungary announces their intentions. will we see who in the GOP will vote on very partisan lines?

Haven't most of the votes relating to the Ukraine conflict been bipartisan and overwhelmingly pro Ukranian? I'd imagine that would hold for two countries joining NATO for defense against Russia.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Finland and Sweden are considering their entry into NATO.

Sounds like Putin thinks he can conquer the world, particularly the entire FREE world.
Also sounds like he intends to carry through with that plan, no matter what anyone says or does.
Thus, it sounds like the entire free world will indeed be dragged into it.

Best I can say is, like it or not, get ready, get prepared, and if you love democracy and despise autocracy, you're going to pay a price.
It is my fervent hope and prayer that the price is small but history says it probably will be rather high.

And if he's that determined, and the entire free world is too slow in accepting that fact, it's going to be worse.
But at any rate, I'd put my betting money on the entire free world.
Sadly, the United States might be the one country I have the least faith in right now thanks to all the morons who think
Putin's autocracy is maybe better than the Second Coming of Christ, or who think it IS the Second Coming of Christ.

And that's because they are morons, and when this is all over and we're lucky enough to survive with democracy intact in some form,
I hope and pray the morons get plopped smack dab in the middle of the new homeland they seem willing to pledge allegiance to.
If I had my way I'd love to give all those Ukrainian refugees the homes and businesses left behind by Putin's fan club here in the USA.

Yeah I know, a little fanciful.
But I like the way it makes me feel, because it makes me feel like I'd once again be living in a country that values democracy.
And I would welcome my new Ukrainian neighbors with open arms.

 

[soap box]

Haven't most of the votes relating to the Ukraine conflict been bipartisan and overwhelmingly pro Ukranian? I'd imagine that would hold for two countries joining NATO for defense against Russia.

I hope you're right, yes
I don't think trump has the capacity to get details like support for Ukraine, but he has an irrational rejection of NATO. And he's been rambling about it. I just hope Republican senators don't vote against it ( *) only because they think that's what trump wants.

* From the posts and replies , advice and consent means there would only be a vote if Schumer wants to have a claim for dncc that 'the gop voted against NATO' . He might do it for campaign fodder to put in tv ads . That's only if one of the countries makes an official bid before , say, October.

Once in a while I come across an issue and I'm not sure what to make of it.

 

[MaryP]

has an irrational rejection of NATO. And he's be rambling about it. I just hope Republican senators don't vote against it ( *) only because they think that's what trump wants.

That would be the only real issue I see.