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Will ObamneyCare work?

Will Obamney care succeed

  • Yes, because of Obama

    Votes: 1 2.0%
  • No, because of Obama

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Yes, because it's a great idea

    Votes: 11 21.6%
  • No, it's a terrible idea

    Votes: 23 45.1%
  • 10 piece McNuggets with fries

    Votes: 16 31.4%

  • Total voters
    51
Succeed needs more context...better than what we're currently dealing with? Definitely...succeed as the idea that we finally have universal coverage? Doubt it.
 
Because we don't accept that the current system (before Obamacare) didn't work. It worked for all but a small minority (30-40 million out of 310 million). Why doesn't it bother the left that the vast majority is now having their insurance messed with because of this?

the fact that 30 to 40 million people don't ahve insurance is unacceptable.
 
That is kinda the problem, the right never accepts facts. The fact is worldwide UHC provides a far better medical care system and is supported by literally a world of evidence. I hope ACA is just a stepping stone. Yea, our current systems works, millions cannot get needed healthcare until they are literally dying, then others who have means to pay get more than they need. And it is the largest cause of bankruptcy in the nation...Our system does not work and gets more expensive every year, and is indeed the most expnesive in the world with mediocre results. Yep, it works...
Because we don't accept that the current system (before Obamacare) didn't work. It worked for all but a small minority (30-40 million out of 310 million). Why doesn't it bother the left that the vast majority is now having their insurance messed with because of this?
 
the fact that 30 to 40 million people don't ahve insurance is unacceptable.

Then YOU and the rest of your liberal buds pay for their insurance. We could add it to the donations available on tax returns. Put your money where your mouth is and insure an uninsured person out of your own paycheck.
 
You paid for their healthcare under our old system in the least effienct way possible. Why do you want to do that?
Then YOU and the rest of your liberal buds pay for their insurance. We could add it to the donations available on tax returns. Put your money where your mouth is and insure an uninsured person out of your own paycheck.
 
Healthcare costs have remained stable for years?
Well, until Obama started making noise my premiums and coverage had remained stable for years.
 
You paid for their healthcare under our old system in the least effienct way possible. Why do you want to do that?

No I didn't. The old emergency room healthcare meme is busted when you actually know anything about how hospitals and emergency care work.
 
Ok, why dont you explain it to me.
No I didn't. The old emergency room healthcare meme is busted when you actually know anything about how hospitals and emergency care work.
 
Healthcare costs have remained stable for years?

Mine did. Those who crafted their own plans and took responsibility were very much able to balance cost and care expectation.
 
I know we have to do something. I think most people who state they are happy with their healthcare simply are not aware of the way the system operates and they fear change. It amazes me only a slight majority oppose ACA since there is a 24/7 right wing noise machine screaming about anything that does not contribute to the profit of the healthcare system. Few Americans realize what happens to their healtcare costs every year anyway since premiums are taken out of their paychecks, it goes up and up and up, every year all the time. I think Obama has shown something we have not seen for years in this country from the President, leadership. It is obviously not an outrageously popular cause, but it is one this country must do someday.

I think you give the right wing media too much credit. Who listens to talk radio anymore, just the same right wing hearing what they want to hear. Whose minds wouldn’t be changed no matter what. Perhaps we did have to do something, that is to take care of those who were uninsured. But I do not think the ACA was the right way to go. The ACA’s dynamics were written and promises said based on all the changes it, the law, people and companies wouldn’t change their habits, their routines from what they were doing prior to the law being passed.
But people adjust, companies adjust. What made sense for some companies to offer their employees health insurances prior to the law, might not make sense to do so after the law was passed. The additional mandates that health insurance must now offer also drives up the price. You can expect additional coverage of dependents, say from 18 to 26 to be able to stay on their parents insurance not to drive up the premium. Having to cover everyone with pre-existing conditions will also drive up the premiums to those who didn’t have those conditions. There is plenty of other examples, but you get the idea.

The same can be said of taxes the same as premiums. If each of us had to wait until April 15th and then pay one’s full taxes instead of having them taken out each paycheck there would be a massive uprising in the streets over taxation. I agree that most people do not know the difference between gross and net income. Money people do not see is not missed.

I still think a VA style system would have been a better way to take care of the uninsured. Not the whole scale chances brought on with this law. But it is here and I am willing to live with it. There are 5 different doctors the wife and me go to see that are either retiring or going to another country to work. They cite Obamacare for their reason for either retiring or leaving. I never realized how many doctors we have from places like Canada, India and Asia practicing in this country. How many of them will remain? I don’t know and no one else does either. I fear this fight over the ACA will go on and on and on much like the fight over abortion.

As for Obama, I really do not see all that much difference between him and Bush the 2nd. President that I have experienced and was old enough to know what they were doing and their policies that I like and thought of the most were Eisenhower, JFK, Clinton and Reagan. LBJ somewhere in the middle and the rest I would call second or third tier.
 
If by 'working' you mean be a complete and utter fiscal nightmare that will cause the fed to shut it down and, shucks, have to go to a universal healthcare program...yes.
 
I think the VA would be a wonderful system for the rest of the nation. I dont disagree with the rest of your points about how it was done, I just know we had to do something.
I think you give the right wing media too much credit. Who listens to talk radio anymore, just the same right wing hearing what they want to hear. Whose minds wouldn’t be changed no matter what. Perhaps we did have to do something, that is to take care of those who were uninsured. But I do not think the ACA was the right way to go. The ACA’s dynamics were written and promises said based on all the changes it, the law, people and companies wouldn’t change their habits, their routines from what they were doing prior to the law being passed.
But people adjust, companies adjust. What made sense for some companies to offer their employees health insurances prior to the law, might not make sense to do so after the law was passed. The additional mandates that health insurance must now offer also drives up the price. You can expect additional coverage of dependents, say from 18 to 26 to be able to stay on their parents insurance not to drive up the premium. Having to cover everyone with pre-existing conditions will also drive up the premiums to those who didn’t have those conditions. There is plenty of other examples, but you get the idea.

The same can be said of taxes the same as premiums. If each of us had to wait until April 15th and then pay one’s full taxes instead of having them taken out each paycheck there would be a massive uprising in the streets over taxation. I agree that most people do not know the difference between gross and net income. Money people do not see is not missed.

I still think a VA style system would have been a better way to take care of the uninsured. Not the whole scale chances brought on with this law. But it is here and I am willing to live with it. There are 5 different doctors the wife and me go to see that are either retiring or going to another country to work. They cite Obamacare for their reason for either retiring or leaving. I never realized how many doctors we have from places like Canada, India and Asia practicing in this country. How many of them will remain? I don’t know and no one else does either. I fear this fight over the ACA will go on and on and on much like the fight over abortion.

As for Obama, I really do not see all that much difference between him and Bush the 2nd. President that I have experienced and was old enough to know what they were doing and their policies that I like and thought of the most were Eisenhower, JFK, Clinton and Reagan. LBJ somewhere in the middle and the rest I would call second or third tier.
 
I was told there would be McNuggets and fries here. Now, where are they?!
 
Exactly what I figured. I was at one point at least as far right wing as you and got all my information from the RW noise machine too. Back about 2000 (or maybe late 90's) I went back to get my masters degree in a field of healtcare administration, I decided to direct as much of my studies as possible to show myself how horrible UHC was so I could communicate that to others. As I learned to understand exactly how studies were conducted and what evidnce meant, I began to study UHC. I was very suprised to find out how far superior UHC is to our system in nearly every measure. It seems pretty much everything I believed was BS. I know well how uncomfortable that feeling is. So I wont press you on the issue.
Been there, done that, tired of repeating myself.
 
Where are the Massachusetts responders ?
They are the ones who matter....
All the others, liberal and conservative both - should be ignored.
 
I think the VA would be a wonderful system for the rest of the nation. I dont disagree with the rest of your points about how it was done, I just know we had to do something.

You may be right about having to do something, I am not sure. But I do think it is better to look real good before you leap. I know hindsight is 20/20, but perhaps open hearings and maybe a TV in the room, say C-SPAN while the committee drew up the legislation, letting the people hear what changes are being proposed and going to take place. I do not think Speaker at that time Pelosi helped the ACA when she told members of the house, that they would first have to pass the bill before knowing what was in it. Doing things behind closed doors and then leaving an impression that our Representatives had to vote on something they knew nothing about probably, like me, caused a lot of that 58% to be against it. After all this wasn't the 1950's when the majority of people trusted their government, those days are long passed.

It didn't help the ACA with the bribes given to Nelson and Landreau and a couple of more being plastered all over CNN either. It didn't help when a few congressmen complained about the DNC and the DCCC threating to with hold election/campaign funds from those Democrats who voted against it. The whole thing smelled. This is why 2010 happened.

perhaps incremental changes to the health care system was the right way to go. Changes made in front of the peoples eyes, changes that can be explained as being good for them instead of just one huge bite. That was another problem the Democrats had since the beginning, they weren't able to explain in layman's language due to the complexity of the law how it would effect/affect each individual who had insurance already. It still is a uphill battle I think, won legislative, but not with the people.

I think as long as a majority of Americans are against the law it will continue to be a thorn in the side of democrats. From 2009 to 2013, using RCP averages, those in favor of the law rose only from 36% to 40% while those opposed fell from 58% to 51%. Yes, perhaps something needed to be done. But I think it is always better doing something with the people behind you than against you. Time will tell on the ACA, whether it is scraped, fixed, improved, or just chugs along as an major irritant to all only because it has became a political football that one side will not let be fix and the other side will not abandon a broken piece of legislation.

Time will tell.
 
It will succeed at bringing coverage to tens of millions of people who go without and decrease costs on some who are struggling to make ends meet. Sadly, it will increase costs on others who are also struggling to make ends meet. Those premiums may lower in the long run, but it is difficult to be sure.

I just lost my insurance plan today because of it, AND my premiums went up, AND my deductible DOUBLED!
 
I am on several boards all the time and talk to lots of people. But I was just thinking when I read this post...I dont know that I have heard one single person that doesnt self identify as conservative complain about ACA screwing them over. Is there some self identified liberal on this fourm that has been screwed by it?
I just lost my insurance plan today because of it, AND my premiums went up, AND my deductible DOUBLED!
 
It has been working for hundreds of millions for decades.

BTW, can you answer the original question that was asked of you: Have you read it?

Really?

Since before astralopithacus and the Olduvai Gorge?

Update:

Wups. Misread the post.

Yes, it works for "hundreds of millions", or perhaps 85% of the population. It doesn't work well, it costs way too much, but it does work for some of us.
 
I just lost my insurance plan today because of it, AND my premiums went up, AND my deductible DOUBLED!

If you lost it, why are you still paying premiums, doubled or otherwise?

If you had insurance before, why would you go on the state exchanges and get a new policy?

Did you have a policy that didn't qualify because it left too much out?

Your post raises more questions than it answers.
 
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