Will Maria Butina bring down the NRA or diminish its power?

[Mycroft]

The 30 million came through an NRA PAC that didn't have to report where it got it's funding from

So...we aren't actually talking about the NRA here...but a PAC.

That's one fact (if you are actually correct) that would seem to be important.

 

[Mycroft]

https://www.npr.org/2018/03/01/5900...-politicians-cultivation-of-nra-ties-revealed

Coupled with.....

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entr...ays-fec-complaint_us_5c0b2798e4b035a7bf5b46fb

Your first link gives no evidence about Russian money.

Your second link makes allegations based on a contention that PACs used the same company for ads that the Trump campaign used. They allege there was coordination involved. I saw no actual evidence that any coordination exists.

You really should get away from scuttlebutt, you know.

 

[RaleBulgarian]

No, she won't bring down the NRA nor will she reduce its influence. It's far too large a lobbying group with far too much money to be stopped by something like this.

Maybe not so much money lately.
NRA Claims 'Deep Financial Trouble' May Soon Put It Out of Business
https://www.google.com/amp/amp.time...-financial-trouble-may-put-it-out-of-business
Still, it’s very doubtful that the NRA will fold up it's tents and go away because of $.

I don’t think Butina’s testimony will hurt the NRA anymore than some of their own recent tone deaf actions/public gaffs. NRA members tend to be pretty “devoted”.

 

[Moderate Right]

Maria Butina the Russian spy had a lot to do with the NRA and the NRA contacts with the Russians. There is scuttlebutt that the NRA took money from the Russians and funneled it to the Trump campaign. She has flipped and if that turns out to be true, the NRA and its leaders could be in very big trouble. The NRA is already having financial problems and fighting any legal problems could make matters for them much worse. And what about the next election in 2020. If they are having to cut back on staff and programs, how will they supply campaign money to all of the Federal and state lawmakers they presently support? This will be especially hard if the Feds are looking over their shoulders to see where the NRA funds for political purposes are coming from? So will this Russian spy bring down the NRA or diminish its power?

People give the NRA way, way too much credit. People either believe strongly in the second amendment or they don't. Most Democratic gun control ideas are an assault on law abiding citizen's rights. The right already knows this and so do others who favor the second amendment who are represented by Democrats. They don't need the NRA to tell them that. The NRA doesn't brainwash anyone. Rural areas in particular are not going to allow their rights to be diluted even if the NRA did not exist at all.

 

[Moderate Right]

I don't know what her end game might be. Apparently no one arrested as a Russian spy has ever "cooperated" in exchange for a plea deal. If Butina does so, and is deported after serving her sentence, she's one dead Russian redhead... and I'm sure she knows that.

Perhaps she realizes she will live longer if she does her time and gives up the goods on her Russian handler in exchange for a permanent resident visa here in America. There really isn't any good choice for her, but choice number 2 gives her a chance to live at least a couple decades longer.

I don't know about living longer. Putin didn't seem to mind using a nerve agent in London so why not the US? I was surprised to hear that she wants to cooperate so she can get deported back to Russia. Surely she's not that stupid.

 

[Tanngrisnir]

Your first link gives no evidence about Russian money.

Your second link makes allegations based on a contention that PACs used the same company for ads that the Trump campaign used. They allege there was coordination involved. I saw no actual evidence that any coordination exists.

You really should get away from scuttlebutt, you know.

The NRA has already stated that it accepted Russian $$$, and w/every subsequent admission, the sums get larger.

https://www.motherjones.com/politic...-campaign-coordination-political-advertising/

Not only that, but....

https://twitter.com/saradannerdukic/status/1072499559790718981

This will be a most interesting next few months, esp. now that she's cut a deal and the FBI is investigating.

Hell, even Cambridge Analytical has been (unsurprisingly) swept up in this.

 

[independentusa]

People give the NRA way, way too much credit. People either believe strongly in the second amendment or they don't. Most Democratic gun control ideas are an assault on law abiding citizen's rights. The right already knows this and so do others who favor the second amendment who are represented by Democrats. They don't need the NRA to tell them that. The NRA doesn't brainwash anyone. Rural areas in particular are not going to allow their rights to be diluted even if the NRA did not exist at all.

I think you are wrong. Many of us have a strong belief that the second amendment grants citizens he right to own guns. We also believe, as Scalia once said, that the government has the right to make reasonable gun laws, just like the it allows laws keeping people from yelling fire in a crowded theater is not a violation of the 1st Amendment. The NRA, I used to belong, was once the organization that taught gun safety to Americans. Today many of us see it as an arm of the Gun manufacturers who provide them with most of their funding. I could give examples of how they have moved away from safety training, but it would make this message too long. Ask for an example and I will provide.

 

[TurtleDude]

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/04/11/nra-russia-money-guns-516804
Well the NRA admits it took "some" money from Russian sources, but of course none of it was used for political purposes if you believe the NRA. The real question is where did the NRA get the 30 million that it gave to the Trump campaign. I guess we will find out as the investigation unfolds, but Ms Butina may hold some of the answers.

Gun banners keep claiming that the NRA is nothing but a front for gun makers. Obama and Hillary were the best gun sales representatives that the Gun industry has ever had.

 

[TurtleDude]

I think you are wrong. Many of us have a strong belief that the second amendment grants citizens he right to own guns. We also believe, as Scalia once said, that the government has the right to make reasonable gun laws, just like the it allows laws keeping people from yelling fire in a crowded theater is not a violation of the 1st Amendment. The NRA, I used to belong, was once the organization that taught gun safety to Americans. Today many of us see it as an arm of the Gun manufacturers who provide them with most of their funding. I could give examples of how they have moved away from safety training, but it would make this message too long. Ask for an example and I will provide.

you confuse USE with Possession restrictions

 

[Manc Skipper]

The NRA has already stated that it accepted Russian $$$, and w/every subsequent admission, the sums get larger.

https://www.motherjones.com/politic...-campaign-coordination-political-advertising/

Not only that, but....

https://twitter.com/saradannerdukic/status/1072499559790718981

This will be a most interesting next few months, esp. now that she's cut a deal and the FBI is investigating.

Hell, even Cambridge Analytical has been (unsurprisingly) swept up in this.

All that money-laundering and shared links to the Trump crime family should bring them down, the traitors.

 

[Grokmaster]

The NRA has already stated that it accepted Russian $$$, and w/every subsequent admission, the sums get larger.

https://www.motherjones.com/politic...-campaign-coordination-political-advertising/

Not only that, but....

https://twitter.com/saradannerdukic/status/1072499559790718981

This will be a most interesting next few months, esp. now that she's cut a deal and the FBI is investigating.

Hell, even Cambridge Analytical has been (unsurprisingly) swept up in this.

CAN'T READ? The NRA bought ads for a PRO-SECOND AMENDMENT candidate...and Mother Jones is making up TOTAL , UNSUBSTANTIATED BULL**** out of whole cloth.

I asked for PROOF, not Lying Left Rag Nonsense.


And?

 

[Grokmaster]

All that money-laundering and shared links to the Trump crime family should bring them down, the traitors.

Except that NEITHER LINK provides a SHRED OF EVIDENCE of either of those MADEUP BULL**** CLAIMS.

The NRA bought ads supporting the PRO-SECOND AMENDMENT CANDIDATE...GASP??!!! OH THE HUMANITY!!!!




As if that's illegal.





Do you guys NEVER READ YOUR OWN LINKS?

 

[Tanngrisnir]

CAN'T READ? The NRA bought ads for a PRO-SECOND AMENDMENT candidate...and Mother Jones is making up TOTAL , UNSUBSTANTIATED BULL**** out of whole cloth.

I asked for PROOF, not Lying Left Rag Nonsense.


And?

It's fun that now that the FBI is investigating all this and she's cut a deal, you fly off the handle, reject reality and spaz-out.

Thanks for admitting that you cannot demonstrate MJ made anything up.

 

[Grokmaster]

I don't why forums allow people like that to post and **** all over the forum. They do nothing but troll, over nothing. It's obvious they are just posting dumb flame bait and never actually make any intelligent comments

Yes...the DP Left should be allowed to lie their asses off about the claims they make unchallenged. Right.

Perhaps you and the rest of the reading comp challenged DP left should actually READ THE LINKS being claimed a "proof of NRA/Russian money laundering", which, in REALITY, only show that the NRA bought ads supporting PRO-SECOND AMENDMENT CANDIDATES.

The Low--Information Left apparently believes that = "money laundering"....

 

[TurtleDude]

All that money-laundering and shared links to the Trump crime family should bring them down, the traitors.

its fun watching foreign operatives complain about the NRA taking money from foreign operatives

 

[Grokmaster]

It's fun that now that the FBI is investigating all this and she's cut a deal, you fly off the handle, reject reality and spaz-out.

Thanks for admitting that you cannot demonstrate MJ made anything up.

Not nearly as much fun as watching your UTTER FAILURE to provide a SHRED OF PROOF of your MADEUP BULL**** CLAIMS...as usual.

 

[Mycroft]

The NRA has already stated that it accepted Russian $$$, and w/every subsequent admission, the sums get larger.

https://www.motherjones.com/politic...-campaign-coordination-political-advertising/

Not only that, but....

https://twitter.com/saradannerdukic/status/1072499559790718981

This will be a most interesting next few months, esp. now that she's cut a deal and the FBI is investigating.

Hell, even Cambridge Analytical has been (unsurprisingly) swept up in this.

And all that equals...scuttlebutt.

 

[Tanngrisnir]

Not nearly as much fun as watching your UTTER FAILURE to provide a SHRED OF PROOF of your MADEUP BULL**** CLAIMS...as usual.

Already offered plenty of circumstantial evidence and the FBI is investigating, a fact you cannot spazdance out from under, I fear.

Like, bummer, man.

 

[Tanngrisnir]

And all that equals...scuttlebutt.

Well, damn. In that case, you'd better call the FBI and let them know they're wasting their time.

 

[Mycroft]

Well, damn. In that case, you'd better call the FBI and let them know they're wasting their time.

Oh...I have no problem with the FBI investigating the lady.

 

[beancounter]

The current leadership may get in hot water, but the NRA, as an organization, will continue to exist.

However, if a direct connection between the NRA and Russia can be proven, their membership may decline a bit.

 

[Moderate Right]

I think you are wrong. Many of us have a strong belief that the second amendment grants citizens he right to own guns. We also believe, as Scalia once said, that the government has the right to make reasonable gun laws, just like the it allows laws keeping people from yelling fire in a crowded theater is not a violation of the 1st Amendment. The NRA, I used to belong, was once the organization that taught gun safety to Americans. Today many of us see it as an arm of the Gun manufacturers who provide them with most of their funding. I could give examples of how they have moved away from safety training, but it would make this message too long. Ask for an example and I will provide.

That is just liberal propaganda. The NRA is your scapegoat. Those of you who believe that crap are the very same ones who were against the NRA in the first place. No one is going to change their minds just because the NRA isn't there anymore.

 

[D_NATURED]

It seems to me that this needn't be an either/or situation for the Russians. Their goal was not, necessarily, to pick a political side in America as much as it was to undermine our most basic shared values, which included picking someone dumb who they could control. Whether she succeeds in corrupting the vote with donations that are never traced back to Russia or the whole thing gets fully exposed, the democratic process is undermined and Trump is still their puppet.

No matter how much time she does or doesn't do in the US, she will still be a hero in Russia. She has done her part to prove to the American people that we can't trust the aspect of our society that demands the most trust from us. Now that we know the vote is meaningless and manipulable, her job was successful.

The NRA will survive because it is as much a church as a political organization. Like Trump, the NRA can do whatever the **** it wants and will never be held accountable by the deplorables on the right.

 

[independentusa]

you confuse USE with Possession restrictions

So should you be able to use a gun against someone you don't like? I mean that is what you are suggesting by that message. I live in a state where many people own guns and use them to hunt. We do not have a law that allows you to shoot anyone who bothers you and the you scream self defense and you were worried about your life crap, that is. GUn onwership is a right, how you use it is certainly limited by the law. I don't think that the 2nd Amendment says you can use if for whatever you want.

 

[independentusa]

That is just liberal propaganda. The NRA is your scapegoat. Those of you who believe that crap are the very same ones who were against the NRA in the first place. No one is going to change their minds just because the NRA isn't there anymore.

I can see that you will never see the present day NRA for what there are now, not what they were 30 years ago. And if they did funnel money from the Russians to Trump, that is treason and the whole bunch ought to go to jail.