Wildfires Poll

[Robertinfremont]

Yeah I was going to vote that it was some of both, and there's a third choice not even listed: corporate criminal negligence.
Pacific Gas and Electric was found to be criminally liable for the massive wildfire of last year known as the Camp Fire if I remember correctly.
Sloppy or no maintenance on high voltage supply lines criss-crossing vast areas of dry brush.
No poll choice for that either.

Is the pollster a teenager?
That's not trolling, it's an honest question, because to make a poll with that limited a set of choices means that the pollster did not pay much attention to the issue to begin with, and the tone of their posts smacks of youthful apathy and indiscretion.

California is a "Patient Zero" in climate change so that definitely plays a role in the drought profiles in the last forty years or so.
But it is by far not the only cause.

PGE was forced many years by Democrats to get out of the power generation business.All it has today are transmission lines Good transmission lines in fact.

 

[Robertinfremont]

Nearly all are human caused: campfires, recklessness, powerline problems. Arson.

The number #1 natural cause is lightning strikes.

Claiming it is climate change is absurd. Truly absurd.

When Dad was the firechief at his fire department. He agrees that lightening is the top cause.

 

[Robertinfremont]

And yet the federal gov't manages over half of California's forests and 60% of Oregon's. As usual, Trump is spreading a pile of lies and misinformation about this horrible situation.

How does Trump enter into this?

 

[Robertinfremont]

so that clearly is not the entire explanation.

Nobody reported it is the only explanation. California has fires every year and most/ many are not in forested areas,

 

[Bullseye]

I'm so sick of the fake news narrative. I can only hope that people see right through it.

What about lighting, backfires, dumb ****s setting off pyrotechnics? Oh, yeah and arson. Climate change? Maybe an "assist"; One year it cause deluges and the vegetation grows like made, then weather goes hot and dry and all that new group becomes fuel. Lather, rinse, repeat.

 

[CimpleMan]

Why won't any Democrats explain the great danger of 2 degrees warmer?

Degrees warmer is all the Worlds temperatures averaged together. It's more important to look at specific areas where it's increasing and by how much. Increasing temperatures at the poles and rising ocean levels and temperatures are not good.



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[joko104]

Degrees warmer is all the Worlds temperatures averaged together. It's more important to look at specific areas where it's increasing and by how much. Increasing temperatures at the poles and rising ocean levels and temperatures are not good.



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With the temperature rising 0.031f degrees per year - 3/1ooths of 1 degree per year, within 5 years we all will be dead anyway.

Next year, another 3/100ths of one degree increase will melt all steel structures and all plants and wood will burst into flames worldwide.

By 5 years, almost 1/5th of 1 degree increase will start melting the surface of the earth. Only a few people deep in nuclear powered bunkers will still be alive - with only months left. When the climate reaches a full 1 degree increase in 25 years, all of earth will just be a lifeless molten mass in space.

Who can question that 3/100ths of one degree has set the entire west and midwest on fire? Is anyone in California even still alive?

Global Warming Update.

 

[mike2810]

When Dad was the firechief at his fire department. He agrees that lightening is the top cause.

Was your dad saying lighting was the top cause for his fire district, the State, or Nationally?


Based on data from 200 - 2017 85% of wildfires are human caused in the US. Alaska historically has more lighting caused fires than human caused.

"Nearly 85 percent* of wildland fires in the United States are caused by humans. Human-caused fires result from campfires left unattended, the burning of debris, equipment use and malfunctions, negligently discarded cigarettes, and intentional acts of arson.
*Source: 2000-2017 data based on Wildland Fire Management Information (WFMI) and U.S. Forest Service Research Data Archive"

Wildfire Causes and Evaluations (U.S. National Park Service)

 

[CimpleMan]

With the temperature rising 0.031f degrees per year - 3/1ooths of 1 degree per year, within 5 years we all will be dead anyway.

Next year, another 3/100ths of one degree increase will melt all steel structures and all plants and wood will burst into flames worldwide.

By 5 years, almost 1/5th of 1 degree increase will start melting the surface of the earth. Only a few people deep in nuclear powered bunkers will still be alive - with only months left. When the climate reaches a full 1 degree increase in 25 years, all of earth will just be a lifeless molten mass in space.

Who can question that 3/100ths of one degree has set the entire west and midwest on fire? Is anyone in California even still alive?

Global Warming Update.

Look, if you don't believe warming of the poles or oceans, or rising sea levels are bad I'm fine with it. I'm not getting in a debate about why tenths of a degree makes a difference or why climate changes or what if anything can be done about it.

I responded to a poster about increase in temperatures and imo rising poles temperatures and rising sea levels and temperatures are not good for many parts of the world.

I'm not a scientist and unless you show me evidence that you are then I would rather trust those who are regarding changes in the climate now and in the future and how the world will be affected by it.

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[mike2810]

Why won't any Democrats explain the great danger of 2 degrees warmer?

Is 2 degrees warmer somehow cooler for Republicans?:lamo

Why don't you explain what 2 degrees warmer means in regards to wildfires .

 

[Robertinfremont]

Is 2 degrees warmer somehow cooler for Republicans?:lamo

Why don't you explain what 2 degrees warmer means in regards to wildfires .

2 degrees means nothing to wildfires.

 

[Noodlegawd]

I'm so sick of the fake news narrative. I can only hope that people see right through it.

Why can't it be both?

 

[joko104]

Look, if you don't believe warming of the poles or oceans, or rising sea levels are bad I'm fine with it. I'm not getting in a debate about why tenths of a degree makes a difference or why climate changes or what if anything can be done about it.

I responded to a poster about increase in temperatures and imo rising poles temperatures and rising sea levels and temperatures are not good for many parts of the world.

I'm not a scientist and unless you show me evidence that you are then I would rather trust those who are regarding changes in the climate now and in the future and how the world will be affected by it.

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I'm listening to the scientists too.

Sea levels will slowly rise and the temperature slowly rise due to being at the end of an ice age. Reducing human greenhouse gas to reduce overall greenhouse gas by 0.2% won't change anything. Quote the scientists you claim say humans can stop the endless evolution of earth.

The question is not whether the climate changes. It always has. Always will. The question is how to deal with. NO ONE ever proposed an plan that has any basis in reality.

 

[CimpleMan]

I'm listening to the scientists too.

Sea levels will slowly rise and the temperature slowly rise due to being at the end of an ice age. Reducing human greenhouse gas to reduce overall greenhouse gas by 0.2% won't change anything. Quote the scientists you claim say humans can stop the endless evolution of earth.

The question is not whether the climate changes. It always has. Always will. The question is how to deal with. NO ONE ever proposed an plan that has any basis in reality.

Why climate is changing is debatable, neither one of us our scientists so we have to rely on experts. I'm fine if you want to believe one expert over a another. It's my belief warming of the poles and oceans and rising sea levels is a bad harbinger.

Feel free to disagree with my beliefs, but I'm not going to debate you on climate change.

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[joko104]

Why climate is changing is debatable, neither one of us our scientists so we have to rely on experts. I'm fine if you want to believe one expert over a another. It's my belief warming of the poles and oceans and rising sea levels is a bad harbinger.

Feel free to disagree with my beliefs, but I'm not going to debate you on climate change.

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Nor do you care to discuss what to do about it.

NO ONE ever discusses how to deal with the FACT that no matter what humans do, the sea level WILL keep rising. It has been rising for centuries.

Nor do I need scientists to know this. I know it from my land. There are hundreds, maybe thousands of ancient forgotten native American graves on our woodland swamp land in Florida. Each is simply an approximate 3 foot tall somewhat pyramid pile of rocks. An IQ of 80 is enough to know they were buried on dry land - and that graves go to the Gulf coast edge and extend further out into the water to a couple of feet in depth. These date back between 1000 and 2000 years. There may be older ones further out. Simply, the sea level rose.

In fact, the history of Native Americans in this region and their evolution is largely based on the sea level rising due to the melting ice:

"People first arrived in what is now known as Florida more than 12 millenia ago. At that time, the earth was in an "ice age," when much of the planet’s water was frozen in glaciers, and sea levels were hundreds of feet lower than today. The land mass of Florida extended 100 miles farther into the Gulf of Mexico/


About 9,000 years ago, the glaciers began to melt as Florida’s climate became warmer and wetter, and plants and animals in the region became more diverse. Between 7,000 and 6,000 years ago, when our modern forests and wetland environments began to appear, people in central and south Florida practiced a unique custom of burying their dead in wetland cemeteries. Around 4,000 years ago, as sea levels and climate approached modern conditions, native people began to depend more on wetland resources such as fish, shellfish and turtles.
Florida's Native American Tribes, History & Culture

Explain to me how Native Americans caused so much greenhouse gas to raise the sea level many feet? What does it mean that a mere 12,000 years ago the sea level was HUNDREDS of feet lower?

Claiming humans cause sea level and earth temperature changes is truly absurd since ALL greenhouse gases produced by humans is less than 1/2 of 1%. If ever human on earth ceased to exist it would not affect the climate one way or the other.

THIS IS WHAT ANGERS ME. Government wants TRILLIONS of dollars for plans that, at best, could reduce worldwide greenhouse gases less than 1/10 of 1% - changing nothing. NO ONE talks about how to deal with the FACT that sea levels WILL rise - as will temperatures. Slowly, but unstoppable. Yet NO ONE speaks of what to do about it. Make plans for dikes? Drainage? Relocations? NOTHING.

 

[Paradoxical]

They're often started by arson or even natural causes, but dramatically exacerbated by climate change. Stop having such a simplistic, black and white view of the world.

This is another in a very long list of Goebbelsian lies. I am copying and pasting a post I made on another OP that is promoting this LIE.

I happen to live in a brush area on 5 acres and am happy that State Farm insures me. If not, you have to go to the Fair Plan, which costs more money. I know this. I took a risk. This is what is supposed to happen. If you live in a brush area, you take a risk. I also have earthquake insurance. this is what responsible people do. Government should not rebuild someones house if they build or own in these areas and are not insured. Nor should someone get Cadillac health insurance if they don't pay for it.

But, lets look at WHY there are more fires in California and more homes are burned. First off, people (like me) hate the cities and want to get away from the government caused crime and congestion. So, more homes are built in areas that are prone to fires.

Secondly, fires are usually put out now before they get too far. Centuries ago, they would burn tens of thousands of acres because we didn't have planes and helicopters and thousands of fire fighters putting them out. The result is that brush that isn't burned AS NATURE INTENDED grows to extreme heights and when I fire comes, it is like cans of gasoline sitting there waiting to be ignited.

Thirdly, because of environmentalists, we are not thinning out the forests and dead trees are allowed to stay because envirowhackos want nature to be left as is. The forest snow are a tinder box and humans feign surprise and upset and blame it who? You got it.......Humans and climate change.

We live in a world fraught with danger and if we don't allow nature to take its course, we pay the consequences. The same thing with COVID. We want to live like sardines in condos apartments and high rises and subways and then blame Trump when people die from the flu. People are ignorant and lazy and just believe what the Goebbels of the world feed them without doing a stick of research or thinking.

 

[noonereal]

I'm so sick of the fake news narrative. I can only hope that people see right through it.

What is teh fake narrative and what facts can you bring forward to dispute it?

Thanks

 

[Rexedgar]

False Rumors That Activists Set Wildfires Exasperate Officials - The New York Times

"Officials dealing with catastrophic fires on the West Coast have had to counter social media rumors that the blazes were set by antifascist activists, publicly pleading that people verify information before sharing it.

Despite their efforts, [v]misinformation about the origin of the fires — which have killed at least 15 people and consumed millions of acres — continues to spread on Facebook and Twitter...[/b]"

And apparently here on DP as well. :roll:

This doesn’t help.(link below is what I am referencing)

What is teh fake narrative and what facts can you bring forward to dispute it?

Thanks

Fanning the emotional flames!

Sheriff's deputy on leave after blaming Oregon wildfires on Antifa

 

[noonereal]

This doesn’t help.(link below is what I am referencing)




Fanning the emotional flames!

Sheriff's deputy on leave after blaming Oregon wildfires on Antifa

I asked you. Can you speak to this or not?

 

[Rexedgar]

I asked you. Can you speak to this or not?

You asked the OP. I just provided some “fake narrative” from official channels. I really wanted to reply to Dianna and you were at the end of the string.

 

[joko104]

The geological record of earth is known, particularly more recent.

12,ooo years ago the sea level was HUNDREDS of feet lower. A thousand years ago it was about 10 feet lower. Ten years ago in was about an inch lower. Why? The melt off of an ice age - and it is continuing to melt.

So, have we found even one fossil record of the electric cars and solar power plants that Neaderthals used?

The doom of the USA is that most people furiously are dedicated to refusing to think. Most turn on their favorite propaganda network and then declare "scientists say" - and depending on which network will determine what the "scientists" say. If CNN, they will tell you "the scientist say" that if hundreds of billions of dollars is given to "scientists," trillions to government and tens of trillions to the rich and industry, the United States alone can totally control the atmosphere, climate and sea level.

OR if on FOX, "scientists say" there is no climate change and sea level change.

And then on this forum - which should be the more intelligent and thinking people on such political issues - most of you mindlessly and ignorantly throw opposing "scientists say" at each other. Why? Because most of you - like most people - are totally committed to be non-thinking people, dedicated to being truly ignorant.

FACT: The sea level will slowly continue to rise. Temperatures will slowly continue to rise. Humans are less than 1/2 of 1% of greenhouse gases. Human's can't stop climate change. Kill all humans and it would not affect climate change or sea levels.

Because most people's #1 religion is to be mentally lazy non-thinking idiots more easily controlled than cattle, no one actually talks about what to do with the inevitable by planning to:
Build dikes
Use zoning laws to stop coastal construction
How to redesign and alter sewage and water systems
Long term plans for relocations - including entire cities

For most those, the human race has decades to centuries to deal with. It will be expensive. But that is were $$ how "climate change" and sea levels should be spent - not throwing trillions of dollars at the already richest people on earth nor throwing more money and power at government for plans that if perfectly executed would change NOTHING about the climate and sea level.

I have yet to hear a truthful or intelligent presentation on the MSM about climate change - regardless of which propaganda outlet of the super rich.

 

[mike2810]

2 degrees means nothing to wildfires.

Your conclusion is based on what?

 

[Moderate Right]

I'm so sick of the fake news narrative. I can only hope that people see right through it.

Man, I really hate the fact that you made me vote for climate change when I really didn't want to. In most cases I don't believe arson is the cause of the fires. It's carelessness and lightning, which neither one are climate change. And, you are right about the fake news narrative. My biggest beef with these people is that, yes, I believe in climate change and, yes, I do believe that climate change is causing more fires worldwide BUT lefties make the assumption that just because you believe this then I'm going to give them a blank check to fight mother nature. You can't fight mother nature. It is futile and it's just not realistic. It can't really be done.

And, if humans are the factor in climate change then the only logical way to fight this to eliminate humans or most humans. Billions of people would have to be culled. If you don't eliminate humans you can't eliminate climate change. And, lefties usually always refuse to admit that no matter how much you fight mother nature, the world temps will continue to rise anyway, as they have many times in the past already, even when there were no humans on the planet. And, I am very much against fighting climate change by eliminating things and making human life harder. I think the actions we should take should be 100% in carbon capture technology.

 

[Glitch]

Historically, there are a lot of wildfires started by arson.

90% of the wild fires are started by lightning strikes in Alaska. We've also have numerous fires started by the National Park Service, during a "prescribed burn" that got out of control. The military also uses so-called "controlled burns," but they tend not to be very controlled. Most of the man-made wild fires in Alaska are accidental, someone's permitted burn got out of control. Arson is extremely rare in Alaska, and pertains more to structural fires than wild fires.

 

[Cassandra]

How does Trump enter into this?

Trump threatened to withhold FEMA funding. In his tweet:

"Every year, as the fire's rage & California burns, it is the same thing-and then he comes to the Federal Government for $$$ help. No more. Get your act together Governor. You don't see close to the level of burn in other states..."

Well, for one thing the Federal government manages over half of Californias forests and 60% of Oregon's forests. And, of course, other states suffer from different kinds disasters. When last did California have a major flood? Has he admonished the states of Texas, Louisiana or Florida for their failure to plan for Hurricanes?


"The Governor of California, @GavinNewsom, has done a terrible job of forest management. I told him from the first day we met that he must 'clean' his forest floors regardless of what his bosses, the environmentalists, DEMAND of him. Must also do burns and cut fire stoppers...."

Actually most of California's fires have not originated in forested areas, only one of the recent fires fit that description. Also, burn suppression was the national strategy for decades. That policy was probably misguided but it occurred under administrations of both parties for obvious reasons. Intentional burns are dangerous.

"Also, open up the ridiculously closed water lanes coming down from the North. Don't pour it out into the Pacific Ocean. Should be done immediately. California desperately needs water, and you can have it now!"

Its hard to say what he means by this. Apparently, there should be no streams or rivers in California?

How sad that every tragedy has become some sort of opportunity for him to confuse, misinform and divide the nation.

Meanwhile, those of us in the thick of it hope to smell like something other than charcoal briquettes sometime soon.