it should be noted that "sometime" has not yet occurred in germany, japan, okinawa, etc. there are few on this board who have lived when our military presence was not situated in those locales
and these countries have rebounded from the devastation of war
why should we expect anything else in iraq and now afghanistan ...
Because you are capable of thought? I know I'm placing myself on a limb assuming as much, but places like Germany, Japan, and Okinawa aren't really wanting us to leave. Iraq and Afghanistan are like other locations. They are volatile and temporary. Vietnam was volatile, we left. The Phillipines wanted us gone, we left. South Korea wanted us to stay, we stayed. Somalia wanted us gone, we left. Cuba was left in Cuban hands a long time ago. Do I really need to invoke the history?
what pray tell, provides you with a better lens into that region than an other forum member? and if you have an actual advantage, from your posts on this matter, it would appear you have squandered it
You may stand alone on this. It's not so much about an advantage as it is about getting informed beyond the television guru. Perhaps this is why you think your opinion counts so much. What have you actually studied about this region? My guess is nothing. You, like others, hang on the words of reporters swaying your opinons back and forth with no real understanding into perspectives, history, direction, tactics, or big picture diplomacy. Much of the opinions I see now about Afghanistan are the same I saw in regards to Iraq until they were proven wrong. Instead of learning, they merely spewed their garbage to the east towards the other war. In the end, they are clueless and guessing from one event to the next.
that term is worn out from use - because it so aptly describes our foreign policy for multiple generations. what we cannot achieve thru negotiation we compel by military might
So....every corner of the world has a soldier? Every border is manned by American troops? "World Policemen" is an ignorant term. It always has been since the original "Police Action" in Korea. There have been ethnic cleansings and genocides and conflicts artound the world that have had no American troop presence whatsoever. By the way, negotiations are failures for civilians. It's when they can't fathom their failure and inject those failures into military affairs that cause the big problems.
You are invited to prove your point, otherwise we can dimiss this attempt at a rebuttal as a lame strawman. but prove me wrong and identify the posts where our members have insisted that we must attain utopia in the USA before we intervene in foreign affairs
Thanks for the invite. As it so happend, the person this was directed to expressly stated "
Esp. til we get things right on the homefront." And what determines when we are "right?" At what point are we permitted to protect foreign interests for sake of security? Perhaps you are not aware, but much of Congress was against intervention in Europe in regards to Germany on the grounds that it wasn't our business and that we have enough problems of our own to deal with. Notice how the same tired ass argument gets passed on?
One easily gets the idea that until utopia occurs, Americans have local problems to deal with first no matter what the world is shaping up to be. Anything to legimtize cowardice to do what is right.
why is it America's responsibility to cure whatever might ail europe, the pacific, the soviet union, and/or the middle east? why should we not instead tend to our own affairs ... mind our own business ... effect a libertarian philosophy that they are able to do whatever they choose so long as their actions do not intrude on our nation's ability to do the same?
I know your frustration. Been there, moved on. You are closed minded, but I'll give it a shot.....
Because we have made it our responsibility for our own sake. In the beginning, it was Americans that fought a war with the Barbary Pirates (early 19th century) to secure our shipments through the Mediterranean Sea (the rest of the world benefitted). We enjoyed our isolation until the world dragged us out for a World War because Europe's celebration ofmisbehavior was effecting our economy and prosperity. We went back into isolation and refused to play in Europe's Second World War until it had to cost more Americans and treasure than it had to. At this point in history it wasn't hard for policy makers and tacticians to recognize that the health of foreign regions determined our security and our lives. Next was a Cold War where the Soviet Union had influence over most of the world before the mid 1950s. Minding our own business in the Middle East meant a Soviet controlled Middle East. After the Cold War, we continued tohave nothing to do with how their leaders treated them and widely minded our own business. 9/11 was yet another reminder that unhealthy regions will touch us. Today, an entire screwed up region of eastern Africa threatens shipping lanes. In a world that has been shaped around international trades, agreements, and pacts we can't afford to roll the dice and hope all is well. We don't have a big brother like others do.
You want to mind your own business? So did many Americans until they were forced to die in even greater numbers because they waited too long to deal with an inevitable problem. Find someone else to referee the world. Problem is that Europe is too busy criticizing America for living and damn well not willing to step in to protect even themselves. We've tried minding our own business. They insist we don't.
The libertarian philosophy is BS in a world full of villians. We deal with governments. Arab governments are free to do as they like. They are free to invite us to build a base. They are free to request our assistance to deal with regional bad guys. They are also free to govern their people as they see fit. But this is where we get to be the "evil" in some of their citizen's world. You call us global cops. The truth is that we are victims of our own hands off approach. We don't prescribe oppression and brutality. They do this to themselves. Even "our" Shah came with positive civil and social instructions. In the end, our enemies have still contested us and today they reach out and insist on war. Even today, our general theme is one of isolationalism. This idea that we don't mind our own business is yet another worn out cliche used by people who haven't a clue.
