FreeThinker
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FreeThinker said:Every aethist I know seems to have this overwhelming desire to go out and tell the world about the great lie that is faith. They laugh at the pope, they constantly reference inconsistencies in the bible, and are always keen to convert others.
What these people have forgotten is that without religion as a tool for humanity, none of us would be here today.
Rewind 200 years. You are a slave in America. You were born into bondage. Every day is spent working until your hands bleed for nothing more than food and water. You are less than a human being. When a man wants to, he can beat you. You are bred like an animal. Your children will be sold when they are old enough to work. You will never see your son after his 6th birthday.
So why live at all? Where is the hope?
Enter faith.
You are told, and you BELIEVE that if you lead an ethical life based on a set of rules you will go to a better place. A place where you can see your family again. A place of eternal bliss and happiness.
Suddenly things are not so bad. Life is hard with little reward, but in the end you BELIEVE that things will get better. You BELIEVE in a God that will reward you for all you have worked for in your life.
Throughout history faith has been used by humanity as a psychological defense mechanism against hopeless situations. Some animals when caged refuse to eat and die. They cannot see the hope of their situation. They have no religion to make them keep on living.
Humans have this unique tool for survival that no other animal has.
Some argue that faith simply leads to conflict, but I disagree. Religion is only the excuse different people use for killing each other. It is very easy to say that the crimes you commit against a person are in the name of God, taking responsibility off yourself (reference Bin Laden), but I would argue that these crimes would have happened anyway: religious excuses or not.
The crusades were not about religion, they were about a land dispute and cultural domination. Do not blame the Bible for wars, blame the people that use it as an excuse to kill.
As an aethist myself I do not believe in God. But I have profound respect for those who do, and I understand that religion is humanity's greatest weapon in the face of despair.
Respect religion.
Engimo said:Yes, religion may be useful for inspiring people to go out and accomplish positive things - but that does not say anything about its validity.
No, what you are saying here is an appeal to the consequences of a belief. Something that is believed without proof, regardless of the result of having the belief, is not worthy of respect.
Engimo said:Perhaps you, being one yourself, should be aware of the fact that the word is "atheist".
FrustratedTeenager said:Something that is believed without proof, regardless of the result of having the belief, is not worthy of respect.
FreeThinker said:Listen I know that you are still mad about the 70 year old preacher that poked you in the eyeball with his little soldier, but don't let it jade your current opinons.
If your life was completely hopeless and you were giving in to despair, it is likely you would kill yourself to escape it. A religious person would try his or her hardest to live through the ordeal and survive.
You would fail and die where a person of faith would succeed. That, in my opinion, makes them stronger and more deserving of respect than you.
George_Washington said:I or anyone else could question the validity of atheism.
Contragulations, Engimo. That same attitude is what has lead to so much religious persecution, the massive deaths caused by communism, and the continual persecution of buddhists and other religious groups in China. And also, not respecting a person's religion is also what lead to the holocaust. Then you say that someone's beliefs aren't worthy respect, you're not only acting immature but your being unjust to your fellow man.
Proof is subjective. If you go through your whole life only believing what you think is right before your eyes, than it's harder to come with new and creative theories about the Universe. Every new vision of the Universe starts with a new and fresh look at things. If you think you already have a perfect viewpoint on everything, it's nearly impossible to think outside of the box. That's why so many creative people in the past have also been religious. They've had faith in what they think is true. Faith is not irrational. Faith is what drives us to go on living and to achieve great things. For people who have no faith, it's harder to grow and change.
Let me ask you something, Engimo. If you claim to be free from irrational beliefs and hatred towards your fellow man, as you've claimed before that so much religious people have held, then why do you practice intolerance against theists? That makes you a hypocrite, Engimo. I treat everyone with respect, regardless of their beliefs. If being an atheist means you want to kick mud in the faces of theists, than I'm glad I'm a Christian.
Engimo said:Really, I have no problem with religious people - I just don't think that their beliefs are built on rationality.
FreeThinker said:You have no problem with them, but you already said you do not respect their beliefs.
And your entire argument is that religion should not be respected because it was used by the KKK etc etc to commit crimes. You missed the entire point.
Religion deserves respect because it allows humans to survive in otherwise hopeless situations. Your argument about mobsters has no relevance because you made the assertion that complying with the mobster's demand for the purpose of survival is the only course of action. Respected religions promote good ethical behavior over survival, although survivial in the face of overwhelming despair is one of its benefits.
Having no respect for religion just goes to show that something in your past made you hate and disrespect it. Disrespecting religion doesn't come from logic, it comes from past experiences.
Engimo said:OMG I'm crying in real life from the long hidden emotions you have brought to the surface. Yes, Rabbi Yittir touched me in the bad places when I was just a little liberal. I can't believe you were able to figure me out in just two posts. You should have your own daytime self help TV show. Seriously. Thank you for casting out the religion hating demons I had inside me. I have respect for religion now. Thank you. FreeThinker for President.
FreeThinker said:This is Engimo's post before he edited it:
Engimo said:This would be funny if it had any humor value at all. Shame that it doesn't. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt at just assume that you're being sarcastic and you don't actually think I'm lying about not having a traumatic experience with religion.
This is about when I go to sleep, I'm not going to keep myself awake to respond to inane, unfunny ad hominems.
I can't wait till someone realizes you are holding the book up side down.
FreeThinker said:I seriously don't understand how you type with your nose pointed almost at the ceiling. Do you have a mirror or something to see your monitor?
I bet you go to places like starbucks and read Hawking while sipping a breve latte. I can't wait till someone realizes you are holding the book up side down.
Engimo said:While I've read Hawking and I do enjoy lattes, I see no merit to your posts outside of poorly constructed personal attacks - that are entirely unprovoked, mind you.
that is correct, but Jesus' followers are the only ones who lasted through teh centuries.alphieb said:Many people in those days claimed to be the son of God.
It is good that you have questions. Better to have answered them, but not in our minds... Rather our hearts.alphieb said:I would love to believe in Christ and God, but I have too many questions.
Stace said:Respect peoples' right to follow religion, or to not follow religion? Absolutely.
Apostle13 said:It is good that you have questions. Better to have answered them, but not in our minds... Rather our hearts.
...As for me, I don't respect religions only individuals. Religious or not, more or less. Kinda what Stace is saying here;
independent_thinker2002 said:Tell me what atheists are marketing that there is no god. Do they go door to door? Do they leave literature in every single hotel room? Do they leave literature in public restrooms? Do they buy billboards?
Axismaster said:Now look, I have no problem with atheism, just when they impose it. Most atheists don't want to, but there are radical atheist groups just like there are radical Christian groups that one everyone to conform to their path.
Engimo said:I've never seen one, much less one with any political power. You cannot deny that radical Evangelical Christians like Pat Robertson have massive political clout and large followings. I can't think of any comparable atheists or atheistic organizations.
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