Why You Can't Argue with a Leftist.

[Fearandloathing]

I've noticed some members railing against my opposition to "Leftist" political arguments and positions in the Forum, as if this is a "very bad thing."

That socialism, identity politics, gender dysphoria, globalism, restrictions on free expression to prevent "offense," and many other group-think ideas I disagree with are "inherently good," and anyone who disagrees with them is "inherently evil."

That "tolerance" only applies when one agrees with their goals, and it is not "intolerance" but rather moral righteousness to demean, denigrate, even assault anyone not on board with their goals.

This video points out a few issues (yes, it is a Prager U. video, which means those on the Left will dismiss it as propaganda) with why it is difficult to argue with the Left.

In a word, diametrically opposed goals.



I provide it because IMO the speaker points out one major reason why it is so hard to argue with someone who has bought into the new "Left" ideology. Their end goals are so diametrically opposed to those of true Liberals and Conservatives in our society that there is no common ground upon which to argue and reach a compromise or agreement.

I believe in preserving "Western Civilization" because despite it's tarnished reputation involving some very real past stumbling blocks, it has led to the most free, most open, most well-developed societies on the planet. So much so that most people flee TO "The West" in hopes of a better life for themselves and their children. I have no problem with this, as long as the influx is controlled so that our society is not swamped and thereby turned into the morass of problems such potential citizens are fleeing from.

I also believe in the free exchange of ideas, and oppose the tactics of demonization used by so many advocates of Leftist ideology. When you argue with an ardent Leftist, nine times out of ten they will attack you personally, and the tenth time simply dismiss your viewpoint as morally reprehensible and in all cases having no value whatsoever. That's because their goals differ radically from either true Liberals or Conservatives.

The danger of this is that when more people than not reach such a point and discussion in hopes of compromise is no longer an option, what then remains? :coffeepap:

You know I could re-write that changing the word "leftist" to "conservative" and be as accurate.

What I notice about the American right is that they have no respect for truth. They support a dishonest man who lies on average 15 times a day, therefore it can be said "accountability" etc. are not on the top of their chosen character traits, they lie. They are only too happy to **** can integrity to get a tax break today.

They are also incredible hypocrites. The worst and meanest I have ever seen, changing like lizards with the new background. During the Obama administration not a day went by on any forum where there wasn't some thread claiming the end of the world because Obama used so many Executive Orders, "the constitution is being destroyed before our very eyes!!" I recall one moron posting.

Today, not a ****ing peep, in fact defenses of what are clearly unconstitutional aims. Not one peep!

During the Obama administration the right howled and howled, how many inquiries into Hilary? How many times did we have to go through the billion dollar charade of asking Hilary the same questions over and over and over. To this day we have "email" fever, where the dullard right goes off the deep end over an imagined conspiracy, worried all to hell about a leak of some precious tid bit, when Trump is playing footsie with Russia.

Lastly, the American right is also the most paranoid group of humans ever encountered. You people will believe anything. FFS, the lie about Islamic prayer rugs gets recycled every four months and every one of you believes it.

Why?

Because it fits your narrative. If Bigfoot fit your narrative you'd all be claiming to have proof he exists.

 

[Captain Adverse]

You know I could re-write that changing the word "leftist" to "conservative" and be as accurate.

IMO, NO you could not. :no:

If by "conservative" you actually mean members of the far-Right (Alt-Right) like neo-Nazi's and other supremacist groups, then I can agree with you.

Note, I did not accuse "TRUE" Liberals of being Leftists (Alt-Left), so if you consider yourself a "Liberal" with goals similar to Centrists and Conservatives, only with different ideas about how to reach them? Well and good.

However, if you think your "side" of every argument is always morally right, and those who disagree with you are always morally wrong such that instead of finding out if you have similar goals and can debate how to reach them you simply attack and denigrate (much like you did in the above reply)...then if the shoe fits, wear it. :shrug:

 

[JustHanging]

It's not through tolerance and trying to reason with them.

That's because more socialistic countries are nearly always better places to live than the USA. Better healthcare, better education, more caring, less hatred, less racism, less violence, less people believing in imaginary friends.

Now if you actually had some facts on your side, instead of drivel from a fake youtube "University," it would certainly make things easier. Honestly, we're not the ones who want to build a wall, something most five year olds could tell you is a stupid idea.

Hint: Another "L" word: Last.

 

[Irwin Corey]

I've noticed ...

OK, watched your video, read your post. What you obfuscate is THE RIGHT , which is just as REAL as the LEFT. And what you and other "Conservatives" are doing is lumping EVERYONE that disagrees with you into "THE LEFT".

I love my country EVERY bit as much as you do, but I have watched, over a long lifetime, Conservative (Chicago School Economics/Voodoo Economics) shift industries and the jobs that went with them … over seas … AND reduce taxes on the wealthiest people the planet has ever know while foisting policies on our Country that have reduced the Middle Class, which was always, in my lifetime, the life blood of our economy. Conservatives have branded EVERYTHING liberal as (boogedy boogedy) SOCIALIST , which is NOT true.

So, the concept of "shared goals" in the video is great … until everything "liberal" is branded as "LEFT", without WITHOUT any acknowledgement of THE RIGJHT.

 

[Captain Adverse]

OK, watched your video, read your post. What you obfuscate is THE RIGHT , which is just as REAL as the LEFT. And what you and other "Conservatives" are doing is lumping EVERYONE that disagrees with you into "THE LEFT".

I love my country EVERY bit as much as you do, but I have watched, over a long lifetime, Conservative (Chicago School) shift industries and the jobs that went with them … over seas … AND reduce taxes on the wealthiest people the planet has ever know while foisting policies on our Country that have reduced the Middle Class, which was always, in my lifetime, the life blood of our economy. Conservatives have branded EVERYTHING liberal as (boogedy boogedy) SOCIALIST , which is NOT true.

So, the concept of "shared goals" in the video is great … until everything "liberal" is branded as "LEFT", without WITHOUT any acknowledgement of THE RIGJHT.

Again, like many with the viewpoint you project, you would be wrong.

I have many Liberal ideals. I've always advocated for and continue to support Gay rights, including marriage and family. I am a strong Pro-Choice advocate, as an adjunct to any individual's right to control their own body. I support legalization and regulation of prostitution, recreational drug use and sales, and other so-called "vices." I believe people have a right to commit suicide, including doctor-assisted. That we don't need prayer in public schools, while it should remain a right of private religious schools. I oppose asset forfeiture as legalized robbery. I believe in strong alliances but oppose military adventurism. I support public education because an educated electorate can make informed decisions. Those are just some of my "left-leaning" ideals.

On the other hand I am a strong supporter of the right to keep and bear arms as originally envisioned by the Founding Fathers, i.e. the same basic arms (rifle, pistol, ammunition) a common infantryman would carry if called to war. I am also a nationalist, in the sense of preserving a United States as an independent entity not subject to the demands or desires of foreign agencies, governments, or populations. I support immigration controls to take the best candidates and their immediate families, people who not only have something to offer, but intend to assimilate into our culture rather than try to change ours into a mirror of theirs. I also believe that capitalism (enlightened, not rapacious) is the best economic model for a society. I also prefer a representative Democracy as opposed to one which allows for Tyranny of the (then-current) majority. Those are my most foundational "conservative" ideals.

Yet people like yourself assume because I voted for Trump and refuse to join the all-hate all-the-time "resistance," I can thereby be pigeonholed as a "folk devil" negating all my other ideals by reducing me into some immoral "Alt-right" caricature unworthy of consideration.

As for your claim of my failure to acknowledge the "Right?"

...If by "conservative" you actually mean members of the far-Right (Alt-Right) like neo-Nazi's and other supremacist groups, then I can agree with you.

Note, I did not accuse "TRUE" Liberals of being Leftists (Alt-Left), so if you consider yourself a "Liberal" with goals similar to Centrists and Conservatives, only with different ideas about how to reach them? Well and good.

However, if you think your "side" of every argument is always morally right, and those who disagree with you are always morally wrong such that instead of finding out if you have similar goals and can debate how to reach them you simply attack and denigrate (much like you did in the above reply)...then if the shoe fits, wear it. :shrug:

 

[Mr Person]

I have many Liberal ideals.

And yet all your posts are either (1) pro-Trump, or (2) a dishonest and false attack on liberals-in-general, which then doubles as a statement by you about why you're now entitled to do the very thing you are falsely accusing liberals as a group of doing.

Strange, that.

:thinking

 

[OscarLevant]

When you argue with an ardent Leftist, nine times out of ten they will attack you personally,

[...]

:

In the annals of internet history, going back to the BBses , IRC relay, USenet, forums on this or that, how many MILLIONS of comments where someone is attacking me as a "librul" "pinko" "commie" and my thinking is "looney leftist tripe" "la la lefty land" and on and on and on and on, do you want me to provide you, choose one:


1. 1,006,509


2, 3,032,132

or

3, 6,216,543

examples?

So, would you like some cheese with your whine?



Never, once, have I ever bitched about how the right has treated me, personally. I know we do it, too.

So? Get over it, dude.


This place is nothing compared to the old usenet, especially on the alt boards, there were no moderators. Not a place for thin skinned types.


You got it easy as a flower in a greenhouse on this forum. Nag moderators all about, saying "don't say that" dont call that person that", etc.

 

[Irwin Corey]

Again, like many with the viewpoint you project, you would be wrong.

I have many Liberal ideals. I've always advocated for and continue to support Gay rights, including marriage and family. I am a strong Pro-Choice advocate, as an adjunct to any individual's right to control their own body. I support legalization and regulation of prostitution, recreational drug use and sales, and other so-called "vices." I believe people have a right to commit suicide, including doctor-assisted. That we don't need prayer in public schools, while it should remain a right of private religious schools. I oppose asset forfeiture as legalized robbery. I believe in strong alliances but oppose military adventurism. I support public education because an educated electorate can make informed decisions. Those are just some of my "left-leaning" ideals.

On the other hand I am a strong supporter of the right to keep and bear arms as originally envisioned by the Founding Fathers, i.e. the same basic arms (rifle, pistol, ammunition) a common infantryman would carry if called to war. I am also a nationalist, in the sense of preserving a United States as an independent entity not subject to the demands or desires of foreign agencies, governments, or populations. I support immigration controls to take the best candidates and their immediate families, people who not only have something to offer, but intend to assimilate into our culture rather than try to change ours into a mirror of theirs. I also believe that capitalism (enlightened, not rapacious) is the best economic model for a society. I also prefer a representative Democracy as opposed to one which allows for Tyranny of the (then-current) majority. Those are my most foundational "conservative" ideals.

Yet people like yourself assume because I voted for Trump and refuse to join the all-hate all-the-time "resistance," I can thereby be pigeonholed as a "folk devil" negating all my other ideals by reducing me into some immoral "Alt-right" caricature unworthy of consideration.

As for your claim of my failure to acknowledge the "Right?"

It's not all about YOU. I'm talking about your "video" and the Conservative attitude in general. There AbsaByGodLutely IS a "Radical Right" every bit as much as there is a "Socialist Left"; they share NO common goals and would rather destroy our beloved Country rather than give an inch to the other. :roll:

 

[Captain Adverse]

It's not all about YOU. I'm talking about your "video" and the Conservative attitude in general. There AbsaByGodLutely IS a "Radical Right" every bit as much as there is a "Socialist Left"; they share NO common goals and would rather destroy our beloved Country rather than give an inch to the other. :roll:

Yet your response is a red herring. Nothing in my OP indicated support for the "radical right," and after the clarifications posted in this thread...the fact you try to keep deflecting to it demonstrates foundational fallacious reasoning.

Now if you wish to start a thread about how "awful the far Right is?" be my guest. Fear not, I won't defend them. :coffeepap:

 

[humbolt]

Oh, that's the "excuse" you use to ignore me posting facts. But your whiny "what does it matter" post begs the question "why do you lurk in a debate forum flailing at intelligent and honest posters if nothing matters?" I guess this supersedes your previous excuse to not back up your posts: "golly, everybody knows it/find it yourself" excuse. Here's the perfect example



Geez humbolt, this is debate 101: make a point back it up. And you're one of the smart ones.

What? I'm just saying I discount your arguments. There's no sin in that. I'll tell ya what...You win. No ****. You win. There's a star for you somewhere for this.

 

[Irwin Corey]

Yet your response is a red herring. Nothing in my OP indicated support for the "radical right," and after the clarifications posted in this thread...the fact you try to keep deflecting to it demonstrates foundational fallacious reasoning.

Now if you wish to start a thread about how "awful the far Right is?" be my guest. Fear not, I won't defend them. :coffeepap:

red herring noun
Definition of red herring
1
: a herring cured by salting and slow smoking to a dark brown color
2
: something that distracts attention from the real issue

One more time: IT'S NOT ALL ABOUT YOU , "YOUR" video whent to great lengths to point out the "LEFT" and how there is "NO" common ground to be had. I'm pointing out that there is an EQULLY radical "RIGHT" that there is ZERO common ground to be discussed with. That's not a "red herring" that's pointing out the right leaning bias of your posts. But thanks for the opportunity to make my post clear.

I'm not distracting from "THE REAL ISSUE" … YOU ARE!

Then again you're making it clear "YOU CAN'T ARGUE WITH A RIGHTIST."

 

[srexob715]

One more time: IT'S NOT ALL ABOUT YOU , "YOUR" video whent to great lengths to point out the "LEFT" and how there is "NO" common ground to be had. I'm pointing out that there is an EQULLY radical "RIGHT" that there is ZERO common ground to be discussed with. That's not a "red herring" that's pointing out the right leaning bias of your posts. But thanks for the opportunity to make my post clear.

I'm not distracting from "THE REAL ISSUE" … YOU ARE!

Rocks are better adapted to this world than Captain Adverse. At least rocks can hold themselves together without much effort.

 

[Irwin Corey]

Rocks are better adapted to this world than Captain Adverse. At least rocks can hold themselves together without much effort.

That's funny, I don't care who you are.

 

[Vern]

What? I'm just saying I discount your arguments. There's no sin in that. I'll tell ya what...You win. No ****. You win. There's a star for you somewhere for this.

Oh Hum, I'm sorry posting facts hurts you so much. It is a debate forum. Its what you're supposed to do. One has to wonder why you're here when you admit you don't post substance, read posts, or think you have to back up your claims. Now we learn posting facts hurts your feelings. Yea hb, trump attacking Nato exactly as predicted by the dossier is just a fact. Maybe you should have tried to claim it was just an amazing coincidence. Calling the dossier a joke and claiming the author admitted was really a foolish debate tactic. Its what forced you to claim you could find a link to prove anything. Hey, I know, why don't you find a link that says trump attacking Nato exactly as predicted by the dossier is just an amazing coincidence. Oh that's right, you don't have to back up your claims.

 

[NuffSaid]

Yep, can't change the minds of seriously entrenched parroting drones on the Left..

Thus why AM radio is filled with loud, fist-pounding, angry republicans. All spouting the same basic premise. Each one claiming over 20 million listeners, 600 radio stations. And a lot of times on policial boards, 15 minutes after the ring leader, El Pillbo, spouts his "Democrats hate America schtick", the same "ideas" are posted as threads.

 

[TheParser]

The danger of this is that when more people than not reach such a point and discussion in hopes of compromise is no longer an option, what then remains?

Some people believe that what "remains" is a peaceful divorce like the former Czechoslovakia.


This is a big continent. It could hold several independent countries comprised of people who hold common cultural values.

 

[Helix]

Why You Can't Argue from a Position Based in Alternate Reality While Making **** Up with a Leftist.

i corrected the thread title so that it more accurately applies to Trumpists.

 

[Airyaman]

I found it interesting that the OP believes globalism is a leftist ideology.

Then I tried googling it, and this seems to be a thing...since Trump took over "conservatism".

Interesting...back to search pre-2015...

 

[humbolt]

Oh Hum, I'm sorry posting facts hurts you so much. It is a debate forum. Its what you're supposed to do. One has to wonder why you're here when you admit you don't post substance, read posts, or think you have to back up your claims. Now we learn posting facts hurts your feelings. Yea hb, trump attacking Nato exactly as predicted by the dossier is just a fact. Maybe you should have tried to claim it was just an amazing coincidence. Calling the dossier a joke and claiming the author admitted was really a foolish debate tactic. Its what forced you to claim you could find a link to prove anything. Hey, I know, why don't you find a link that says trump attacking Nato exactly as predicted by the dossier is just an amazing coincidence. Oh that's right, you don't have to back up your claims.

You're persistent, Vern. I'll give ya that.

 

[Fledermaus]

You're persistent, Vern. I'll give ya that.

Incorrect on so many things, but persistent.

 

[WCH]

Thus why AM radio is filled with loud, fist-pounding, angry republicans. All spouting the same basic premise. Each one claiming over 20 million listeners, 600 radio stations. And a lot of times on policial boards, 15 minutes after the ring leader, El Pillbo, spouts his "Democrats hate America schtick", the same "ideas" are posted as threads.

You'd prefer there be no opposition to the manic Left?